NHTSA opens preliminary probe into more than 870,000 GM vehicles

[Doubeleive]

Where did I say that lol? My brother in Christ, go back and read my OP. Not trying to argue here.

neither am I but your post made it seem like they can't be found there..... he already said there's no warranty and the work around is to refine the engine

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

neither am I but your post made it seem like they can't be found there..... he already said there's no warranty and the work around is to refine the engine

Oh heck no man. It's Russia after all. Those guys can get anything. Ask me how I know haha.

BTW, I knew that Vlad had imported his Yukon via unofficial means a while back(he has a pretty active thread in the Exterior forum). I was merely asking him what data he had regarding engine failures in Russia since none of that is tracked in GM due the affected vehicles not being officially exported to there. That's it.

 

[RG23RST]

I believe the other engines are having some similar issues, not as many as the 6.2l. Unclear what the percentage of the 6.2l is compared to the 6.6l and 5.3l. I would say the failures before 7500 miles are not going to be solved with more frequent oil changes, but I expect the problems that are happening between 20,000 and 35,000 miles may be avoided by more frequent oil changes.

I see zero and I mean zero reports on Techline of bearing issues with the L84 or L8T. A few reports of internal oil pump failure that did not require engine replacement but that's it.

 

[jfoj]

I mean that after the engine is repaired, the oil viscosity does not change. They also remain at a viscosity of 0w20. As for the breakdown after replacing the engine. There is an important nuance here, and the United States does not repair the engine, in the United States you change it to a new one. And the new engine is just as problematic in terms of clearances as the previous one, broken. In Russia, there were L87s on the escalade. But unofficially, we have a lot of Yukons, like mine with the L87 engine, a Tahoe with the same engine and an escalade, there are also Sieros... So yes, we bring these cars from the USA without any problems, and we are happy to drive them))) so about replacing the engine as in the USA. The service in which I service my Yukon brought a new engine several times, and put it in the car right out of the box, and it broke down again, after 1000 km. Now they disassemble the new engine from the box, increase the clearances, then assemble and put it on the car, such engines have already traveled more than 100 thousand km after repair

Interesting info about increasing the clearances. There is something going on. What I am wondering about is the engines that make it to 20000-30000 then fail but have no issues before 5000 miles.

I still would not run 0W20 either way. Not sure your weather and traffic conditions where you live. We can have 20F (-7C) to 100F (38C) and have aweful traffic conditions where in 100F (38C) it takes 45 minutes to drive 10 miles (16kM). The crazy hot temps and heat soak after crawling in traffic and idling is not easy on the engine oil.

I assume you probably have much colder Winter temps, not sure where you Summer temps tend to top out at.

 

[jfoj]

I see zero and I mean zero reports on Techline of bearing issues with the L84 or L8T. A few reports of internal oil pump failure that did not require engine replacement but that's it.

Search the web, you will find failures.

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

Anybody seen data on if the failing engines are coming out of a specific engine plant, or all of them?

 

[jfoj]

Everyting seems to be too random at this point. Not sure many of the people posting in forums, on Reddit, or social media know enough to determine what plant and build dates were affected. Hell, I am not 100% sure I can figure out what plant the engine came from, but I am sure I can figure it out.

From a quick search and I am not sure this is all current and 100% correct:
Tonawanda, NY
Spring Hill, TN
St. Catharines, Ontario
Silao, Mexico

Again, not sure this is all correct and current and that they build the L87.

The build date on my 2024 was 8/2024 so it is about as late in the 2024 MY it could have been built, so hopefully I will not suffer an early failure. The problem is about 80% of my driving is 2-6 hour highway and it would sux to have a failure and be stranded. From the time I purchased my truck with 8 miles at the dealer, I had to drive just over 1 hour (66) miles with at least 60 of the miles on the highway. Not sure if this would have been helpful or not for reducing the chance of engine failure?

I think GM clearly had an idea of what VIN's may have been impacted when they released a Technical Bulletin regarding the 2022-2023 models, but they did not release the VIN's to the public. But they may have only had a partial idea of what was going on with the 6.2l's.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Interesting info about increasing the clearances. There is something going on. What I am wondering about is the engines that make it to 20000-30000 then fail but have no issues before 5000 miles.

I still would not run 0W20 either way. Not sure your weather and traffic conditions where you live. We can have 20F (-7C) to 100F (38C) and have aweful traffic conditions where in 100F (38C) it takes 45 minutes to drive 10 miles (16kM). The crazy hot temps and heat soak after crawling in traffic and idling is not easy on the engine oil.

I assume you probably have much colder Winter temps, not sure where you Summer temps tend to top out at.

The service guys say that if the engine fails before the first oil change, it will be up to about 10 thousand km, or 6 thousand miles. These are most likely temperature gaps. On longer runs, the reason is the missing oil level. Unfortunately, our oil pressure sensor responds very late. It’s catastrophically late, and if you saw it on the dashboard, then most likely engine repair is already inevitable.
When changing oil, we always cut oil filters and examine them for the presence of metal shavings. This is also a form of diagnosis. If there are chips, then open the engine.
As for the conditions, they are closer to the conditions of Canada, we have -40C in winter and +40C in summer, our driving conditions are good, in a metropolis like Moscow, the average speed is about 30-35 km/h, which is about 20 miles per hour. And the presence of high-speed highways allows you to cover the distance between cities of 700 km in 4.5-5 hours.

I will mention another important point regarding the oil level, we discussed this in this forum. The GM manual indicates an oil volume of 8 quarts, which is equal to 7.6 liters, but in fact, if you add 8 quarts when changing the oil, the oil level will be at the middle level on the dipstick. To get the Max level on the dipstick, you need to add almost 1 more quart, or 0.7 liters. In Russia, when changing engine oil, we pour approximately 8.2-8.3 liters of engine oil to the Max level.
This means that we have a better chance of preventing the engine from starving of oil. So yeah, since we don't have GM's support, we have to get out and monitor the car more closely. For example, I check the oil level once a week, or every 1000 km. Even if I’m on a long trip, involving a mileage of more than 1000 km, I stop at a gas station and while I drink coffee I allow the oil to drain into the crankcase, and check the oil level.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Oh heck no man. It's Russia after all. Those guys can get anything. Ask me how I know haha.

BTW, I knew that Vlad had imported his Yukon via unofficial means a while back(he has a pretty active thread in the Exterior forum). I was merely asking him what data he had regarding engine failures in Russia since none of that is tracked in GM due the affected vehicles not being officially exported to there. That's it.

As I understand it, you’re talking about remaking the standard Yukon headlights? yes, there are some interesting threads of mine there))
We have a small circle of fans of the brand, plus we communicate personally with GM services, there are not many of them. Since services welcome any sources of information, this is a closed chat where service owners and representatives communicate. So, it was their information that I conveyed.
There are three possible reasons: the oil pump, defective connecting rod bearings, and insufficient temperature clearance. As I said above, version 3 is closer to me. But just like with the oil consumption, which I partially corrected on my Yukon, I suspect there could be more than 1 reason.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Everyting seems to be too random at this point. Not sure many of the people posting in forums, on Reddit, or social media know enough to determine what plant and build dates were affected. Hell, I am not 100% sure I can figure out what plant the engine came from, but I am sure I can figure it out.

From a quick search and I am not sure this is all current and 100% correct:
Tonawanda, NY
Spring Hill, TN
St. Catharines, Ontario
Silao, Mexico

Again, not sure this is all correct and current and that they build the L87.

The build date on my 2024 was 8/2024 so it is about as late in the 2024 MY it could have been built, so hopefully I will not suffer an early failure. The problem is about 80% of my driving is 2-6 hour highway and it would sux to have a failure and be stranded. From the time I purchased my truck with 8 miles at the dealer, I had to drive just over 1 hour (66) miles with at least 60 of the miles on the highway. Not sure if this would have been helpful or not for reducing the chance of engine failure?

I think GM clearly had an idea of what VIN's may have been impacted when they released a Technical Bulletin regarding the 2022-2023 models, but they did not release the VIN's to the public. But they may have only had a partial idea of what was going on with the 6.2l's.

By the way, about driving on the highway. There is one hypothesis. We have cars that do a lot of highway driving at high speeds, myself included. I drive fast, which is about 120-140 kmh (80-90 mph) average speed over 700-900 km (500-600 miles). This is driving at a speed of 170-180 kmh (110 mph) on cruise control for 4-5-6 hours.
So, with such movement, there is practically no gasoline left in the oil, it quickly evaporates, and when driving in the city at a slow speed at low speeds, it leads to the fact that gasoline in large quantities dilutes the engine oil, making it even more liquid, and even more losing lubricating properties. So the hypothesis is that highway driving is better for our engines than city driving.

 

[jfoj]

Believe it or not, a lot of these larger SUV's (Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Escalde) are driving by what we often call "Soccer Moms" what you might call "Football Moms", mothers of 2-4 kids ages 4+ years old that are constantly on the run 7 days a week; running kids and friends to school, appointments, sports, social events and so forth. The moms really tend to put the vehicle thru pretty severe duty other than towing, very similar to commercial use. Rarely any long highway drives unless the family travels, which may only be a few times a year. No disrespect to the "Soccer Mom", love me some "Soccer Mom" but I have witnessed this first hand over MANY, MANY years while my son played many sports, while working on vehicles and being around many of the husbands of "Soccer Moms".

You end up with the following:
Lots of short distance runs where the engine may not fully heat up
Auto Stop/Start is not likely manually turned off unless the husband bypassed this feature
Mostly in town, city traffic with a lot of time sitting in traffic and/or at traffic lights
DFM not likely bypassed or transmission kept in L9 unless husband installed bypass
Lots of remote starting and allowing the engine to run a long time to warm or cool cabin
Lots of extended idle time to keep cabin warm or cool in carpool lines wait for kids
Extending oil changes out until the OLM pops on dash, then maybe longer
Rarely checking the engine oil, that is what a sensor or light is for!

Unfortunately these conditions are quite common and the vehicle and engine will be tested just due to rat race schedules and needing to haul kids to every event known to man and usually running a tight schedule, barely being able to make an event on time.

I would love to know the engine run hours as well as mileage for most of the early engine failures.

Agree with your comments about the oil pressure being a bit late to the game, the sensor is in the front of the oiling path almost directly after the oil filter, in the old days this was fine, but now with all the DFM components and the fact you have a 2 stage oil pump, having an additional oil pressure switch at the end of the oiling path to control the 2 stage oil pump would have been a novel idea!

As you are aware, I raised the issue of oil fill level when changing the oil, there is an entire thread of hate about this. I have carefully monitored the oil level required when changing the oil and filter and it is MORE than the specified 8 qts, even GM stated in the earlier generation engines the oil fill capacity as 8.5 qts, then sometime along the way with printing of a piece of paper and no changes to the engine or oil pan the value was reduced from 8.5 pts to 8.0 qts and has been this way for close to 10 years.

I myself have decided for many reasons, to include all these engine failures, torun 9.0 qts when changing the oil and filter. I do pull the dipstick and remove the oil fill cap when I drain the oil and allow the engine to drain for close to 2 hours. 9.0 qts is slightly above the top hash marks on the dipstick, but nowhere too high where the crank will hit the oil. Keep in mind while the engine is running, there is oil that has also not drained back into the oil pan, just check the oil when immediately turning the engine off vs waiting 10-60 minutes to check the oil. Have your guys take a spare oil pan on the bench and fill with 8 qts of water, mark the level inside the pan, then add 1 more quart of water and see how little the level rises in the oil pan. You would probably need 12-13 quarts in the engine before the crank would be hitting the oil, at this point the level would be above the windage tray.

The additional 1 quart gives a slight edge on fuel dilution, oil cooling, overall contamination, if running oil until the OLM/OCI triggers, having 1 extra quart means the oil will be overall less contaminated for the same conditions at 8 qts. It also gives a much larger buffer for people that do not regularly check oil before the oil level gets to the point the Add Oil message pops up on the dash, which is typically when the engine is 2 qts low on oil.

Anyone with a newer model DI vehicle that runs on E10 fuel that wants the engine to last should be changing the oil at 1/2 the OLM/OCI. In most cases this would be around 4000 miles IMHO. But it also depends on the oil sump size as well, if a smaller turbo charged 4 cylinder with a 4 qt oil sump, I would not run past 3000 miles on an oil change these days. We have kind of stepped backwards to the 1960-1970's for oil change mileage, but it is due to all the technology but we have also harnessed a lot more performance and efficiency out of todays engines, but with far more moving parts.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Believe it or not, a lot of these larger SUV's (Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Escalde) are driving by what we often call "Soccer Moms" what you might call "Football Moms", mothers of 2-4 kids ages 4+ years old that are constantly on the run 7 days a week; running kids and friends to school, appointments, sports, social events and so forth. The moms really tend to put the vehicle thru pretty severe duty other than towing, very similar to commercial use. Rarely any long highway drives unless the family travels, which may only be a few times a year. No disrespect to the "Soccer Mom", love me some "Soccer Mom" but I have witnessed this first hand over MANY, MANY years while my son played many sports, while working on vehicles and being around many of the husbands of "Soccer Moms".

You end up with the following:
Lots of short distance runs where the engine may not fully heat up
Auto Stop/Start is not likely manually turned off unless the husband bypassed this feature
Mostly in town, city traffic with a lot of time sitting in traffic and/or at traffic lights
DFM not likely bypassed or transmission kept in L9 unless husband installed bypass
Lots of remote starting and allowing the engine to run a long time to warm or cool cabin
Lots of extended idle time to keep cabin warm or cool in carpool lines wait for kids
Extending oil changes out until the OLM pops on dash, then maybe longer
Rarely checking the engine oil, that is what a sensor or light is for!

Unfortunately these conditions are quite common and the vehicle and engine will be tested just due to rat race schedules and needing to haul kids to every event known to man and usually running a tight schedule, barely being able to make an event on time.

I would love to know the engine run hours as well as mileage for most of the early engine failures.

Agree with your comments about the oil pressure being a bit late to the game, the sensor is in the front of the oiling path almost directly after the oil filter, in the old days this was fine, but now with all the DFM components and the fact you have a 2 stage oil pump, having an additional oil pressure switch at the end of the oiling path to control the 2 stage oil pump would have been a novel idea!

As you are aware, I raised the issue of oil fill level when changing the oil, there is an entire thread of hate about this. I have carefully monitored the oil level required when changing the oil and filter and it is MORE than the specified 8 qts, even GM stated in the earlier generation engines the oil fill capacity as 8.5 qts, then sometime along the way with printing of a piece of paper and no changes to the engine or oil pan the value was reduced from 8.5 pts to 8.0 qts and has been this way for close to 10 years.

I myself have decided for many reasons, to include all these engine failures, torun 9.0 qts when changing the oil and filter. I do pull the dipstick and remove the oil fill cap when I drain the oil and allow the engine to drain for close to 2 hours. 9.0 qts is slightly above the top hash marks on the dipstick, but nowhere too high where the crank will hit the oil. Keep in mind while the engine is running, there is oil that has also not drained back into the oil pan, just check the oil when immediately turning the engine off vs waiting 10-60 minutes to check the oil. Have your guys take a spare oil pan on the bench and fill with 8 qts of water, mark the level inside the pan, then add 1 more quart of water and see how little the level rises in the oil pan. You would probably need 12-13 quarts in the engine before the crank would be hitting the oil, at this point the level would be above the windage tray.

The additional 1 quart gives a slight edge on fuel dilution, oil cooling, overall contamination, if running oil until the OLM/OCI triggers, having 1 extra quart means the oil will be overall less contaminated for the same conditions at 8 qts. It also gives a much larger buffer for people that do not regularly check oil before the oil level gets to the point the Add Oil message pops up on the dash, which is typically when the engine is 2 qts low on oil.

Anyone with a newer model DI vehicle that runs on E10 fuel that wants the engine to last should be changing the oil at 1/2 the OLM/OCI. In most cases this would be around 4000 miles IMHO. But it also depends on the oil sump size as well, if a smaller turbo charged 4 cylinder with a 4 qt oil sump, I would not run past 3000 miles on an oil change these days. We have kind of stepped backwards to the 1960-1970's for oil change mileage, but it is due to all the technology but we have also harnessed a lot more performance and efficiency out of todays engines, but with far more moving parts.

Exactly, I remembered)) I just wrote in your thread that we fill almost 9 quarts of oil, instead of the required 8 quarts according to the manual)) As for the statistics of early engine breakdowns, for us it’s from 500 to 10,000 km approximately.
Further problems are only due to the lost oil level.
But there are a lot of cars that break down at low mileage. Against this background, owners began to think about buying a 5.3 or 3.0 engine, and we are also waiting for deliveries from China cars with a 2.7T engine, yes, small, but not serious on such a car, but not a real American V8, but it’s better to have a 2.7T, but one that runs, than a 6.2 that breaks)

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

As I understand it, you’re talking about remaking the standard Yukon headlights? yes, there are some interesting threads of mine there))
We have a small circle of fans of the brand, plus we communicate personally with GM services, there are not many of them. Since services welcome any sources of information, this is a closed chat where service owners and representatives communicate. So, it was their information that I conveyed.
There are three possible reasons: the oil pump, defective connecting rod bearings, and insufficient temperature clearance. As I said above, version 3 is closer to me. But just like with the oil consumption, which I partially corrected on my Yukon, I suspect there could be more than 1 reason.

Yes sir. That be the one. I'm still hopeful that someone can offer the means to convert the headlights here stateside.

 

[jerry455]

Good, better than 0W20.

So some questions:

What year vehicle?
Did you buy vehicle new?
Is this the original engine?
At what mileage did you start with 0W30?
How many miles do your change your oil or do you follow the OLM/OCI?
Any oil consumption between changes and how much?
How many hours are on the engine?
Do you use the Auto Stop/Start feature?
Is the Auto Stop/Start feature bypassed?
Do you have any sort of AFM/DFM disabler?

2021 Suburban, 6.2, used last May with 70,000 miles on original motor. I switched last oil change. I usually run 4,000-5,000 miles or 25% oil life. I do not loose much oil between changes at all. 2,100 hours. Sometimes I turn off auto stop, neither Auto Stop or DFM is disabled.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Yes sir. That be the one. I'm still hopeful that someone can offer the means to convert the headlights here stateside.

Well, or I try to send the kit for installation in the USA. But taking into account the shipment, it will be, I'm afraid, not a very cheap story (

 

[jfoj]

2021 Suburban, 6.2, used last May with 70,000 miles on original motor. I switched last oil change. I usually run 4,000-5,000 miles or 25% oil life. I do not loose much oil between changes at all. 2,100 hours. Sometimes I turn off auto stop, neither Auto Stop or DFM is disabled.

"I switched last oil change"

Does this mean you change oil from 0W20 to something else?

Thanks for reporting in details.

 

[Stbentoak]

another article....

GM's Broken 6.2L V8s Are Stranding Owners for Weeks as Replacement Engine Pipeline Dries Up

The situation has left dealers struggling to source new engines and owners with no clear repair timelines, and it's especially dire for people who need their trucks for work.

www.thedrive.com

 

[nomech]

another article....

GM's Broken 6.2L V8s Are Stranding Owners for Weeks as Replacement Engine Pipeline Dries Up

The situation has left dealers struggling to source new engines and owners with no clear repair timelines, and it's especially dire for people who need their trucks for work.

www.thedrive.com

"a 2025 Chevy Suburban—so that she can operate while she waits on a new engine. Her fingers remain crossed that the 2025 model year has been spared the same issue that sidelined her 2023."

I thought the 2025 5.3s (lifter) and 6.2s (bearings) are still vulnerable?

 

[PPK_]

Reading all this.. if clearances are a problem on pistons… it seems to me that a 207 deg was what 2018 l83 had… is that still what it is on the 2024s? I know you get down south.. the gm cooling is weak..

 

[jfoj]

I think my 2024 typically run close to 204F, need to check and see if this is the number.