What can be done?

[Oistah]

So, I have a 2018 Escalade ESV that is under warranty with just under 60k miles. After having multiple issues with the car battery going dead, I started it one late September day and it began to misfire. The vehicle was taken to a trusted mechanic who found the problem to be with bank 1 and believed strongly it was a lifter issue and instructed me to take it immediately to the dealer. The next day at the dealer, diagnosis began and within a few days, it was diagnosed as a collapsed lifter and recommended that all bank 1 lifters be replaced under warranty. The work was performed and the dealership found the bank 1 lifters were "sticking" after the replacement and upon review with "GM" the entire engine would be replaced under warranty. That was in early October 2023, during the GM strike and I was warned that parts may not be available until the strike concluded.

The dealership has not been regularly communicative on status but do check in here and there only to tell me they are still waiting for the engine and have no ETA on its arrival. In late December, my service advisor suggested I call GM customer service and get them involved. I did and found out that the motor was backordered to the tune of approximately 1500 motors and my number was in the 400's. Originally, I was asked to contact GM about the issue for some type of credit for each month I had been waiting. The GM rep got back to me and said that due to the significant backorder issue I qualified for a special program that would amount to credit toward the purchase of a new GM vehicle. This offer turned out to be about 10%. My service advisor notified sales at the dealership and a salesperson reached out to me about the situation. I informed sales that I would need a number for what they dealer would offer me in trade for my vehicle to further consider taking the GM offer. That was over two weeks ago and I have heard nothing from sales. However, my service advisor did reach out to find out what was going on with sales and I informed them that I was still waiting on an offer number for my current escalade. That was last week since, no call back about the offer and nothing further from my service advisor but my GM customer service rep is great about regularly following up to see where things are and if I would be taking their offer toward the purchase of a new vehicle.

So, what can I do?

I like the new Escalade styling but it has the same engine with the same lifter/AFM issues. All other large GM SUVs have the same motor and the same potential problems. I have 4 kids and need the larger class of SUVs. For 4 months I am paying for a car that I cannot use with a problem I had warranty coverage for that cannot be fixed quickly. I had been given an XT6 for a few weeks as a loaner car but had to return it as it was "being sold" and have an XT4 that doesn't fit my family. I was unable to travel for the holidays given the loaner size and requirements to not leave a 100-mile radius of the dealership. I am not excited about buying another $120k vehicle at the moment regardless of 10% offer. Not to mention, the new escalade has potentially the same problems I am currently having but I may consider it if I was not hosed on the trade-in offer. I haven't received that and somewhat suspect they don't want the headache of waiting on an engine either or possibly they dont wish to add insult to injury by lowballing me given the situation.

Looking for wisdom of the group here - what can I do?

 

[CMoore711]

Personally, I would not be worrying about purchasing a new vehicle at this time, not under these circumstances. And if the dealerships "sales department" hasn't gotten a hold of you in weeks clearly they're not interested in selling you vehicle or taking in your '18 Escalade ESV in on trade either.

I'm assuming your '18 Escalade ESV is still under a GM CPO warranty?

Since the dealership can't provide you with a comparable size loaner vehicle you need to review the warranty terms as it relates to rental car coverage to get you a vehicle that can accommodate you and your family.

I would reach out to a local rental car company get pricing on a Tahoe or equivalent SUV rental and see how that compares to your warranty's rental car coverage or "allowance".

If it's a GM CPO warranty I would then contact the GM customer service rep and express to them your situation and that you absolutely need a vehicle comparable in size to the GM vehicle and product you have purchased and are paying for transportation of your family. You didn't purchase an Escalade ESV for the gas mileage, you purchased it because you need that size vehicle for your family. Ask the GM rep if they have any rental car companies that they work with or have agreements that are local to you and can offer you a comparable size vehicle since the servicing dealership doesn't have any.

Or you could go to the servicing dealership where you're vehicle is and check out their used car lot. Find a used vehicle on their lot that is comparable to your '18 Escalade ESV that they're servicing for repair and ask to take a test drive. Then just don't take it back. Tell them you're ETA on bringing the vehicle back from the "test drive" is right there next to the ETA on them getting a replacement motor from GM to fix your vehicle and thanks for the loaner and to let you know when your vehicle is repaired and ready to pick up.

 

[MobileHomie]

Personally, I would not be worrying about purchasing a new vehicle at this time, not under these circumstances. And if the dealerships "sales department" hasn't gotten a hold of you in weeks clearly they're not interested in selling you vehicle or taking in your '18 Escalade ESV in on trade either.

I'm assuming your '18 Escalade ESV is still under a GM CPO warranty?

Since the dealership can't provide you with a comparable size loaner vehicle you need to review the warranty terms as it relates to rental car coverage to get you a vehicle that can accommodate you and your family.

I would reach out to a local rental car company get pricing on a Tahoe or equivalent SUV rental and see how that compares to your warranty's rental car coverage or "allowance".

If it's a GM CPO warranty I would then contact the GM customer service rep and express to them your situation and that you absolutely need a vehicle comparable in size to the GM vehicle and product you have purchased and are paying for transportation of your family. You didn't purchase an Escalade ESV for the gas mileage, you purchased it because you need that size vehicle for your family. Ask the GM rep if they have any rental car companies that they work with or have agreements that are local to you and can offer you a comparable size vehicle since the servicing dealership doesn't have any.

Or you could go to the servicing dealership where you're vehicle is and check out their used car lot. Find a used vehicle on their lot that is comparable to your '18 Escalade ESV that they're servicing for repair and ask to take a test drive. Then just don't take it back. Tell them you're ETA on bringing the vehicle back from the "test drive" is right there next to the ETA on them getting a replacement motor from GM to fix your vehicle and thanks for the loaner and to let you know when your vehicle is repaired and ready to pick up.

I do like your style sir.

 

[RST Dana]

I call bs on the 100 mile radius. If it’s a loaner vehicle to be used while yours is inoperable, I wouldn’t be happy with them taking me where I could drive it.

 

[mikeyss]

Or you could go to the servicing dealership where you're vehicle is and check out their used car lot. Find a used vehicle on their lot that is comparable to your '18 Escalade ESV that they're servicing for repair and ask to take a test drive. Then just don't take it back. Tell them you're ETA on bringing the vehicle back from the "test drive" is right there next to the ETA on them getting a replacement motor from GM to fix your vehicle and thanks for the loaner and to let you know when your vehicle is repaired and ready to pick up.

I really hope you're joking.... But if not, this is EXTREMELY BAD advice. You can and would be charged for vehicle theft. The OP definitely has been dealt a sh*tty situation, but you can't go holding dealer vehicles hostage.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Or you could go to the servicing dealership where you're vehicle is and check out their used car lot.
Find a used vehicle on their lot that is comparable to your '18 Escalade ESV that they're servicing for repair and ask to take a test drive.
Then just don't take it back.
Tell them you're ETA on bringing the vehicle back from the "test drive" is right there next to the ETA on them getting a replacement motor from GM to fix your vehicle and thanks for the loaner and to let you know when your vehicle is repaired and ready to pick up.

I really hope you're joking ... But if not, this is EXTREMELY BAD advice. You can and would be charged for vehicle theft.
The OP definitely has been dealt a grappy situation, but you can't go holding dealer vehicles hostage.

The dealer IS effectively holding the OP's vehicle hostage - although I'm sure they won't call it that.
SO what should he do then? I freely admit I'm at a loss myself.

 

[iamlegion]

Keep in mind the 2019s and up is a newer generation l87 engine. Im not excusing the engine issues, between the Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon/Escalade they hold over 50% of the large suv market share. If the engines were that bad or the competition was in the same class people would buy the other options.

 

[StormTrooprSubZ71]

I call bs on the 100 mile radius. If it’s a loaner vehicle to be used while yours is inoperable, I wouldn’t be happy with them taking me where I could drive it.

Some dealers do have that 100 mile radius. I had a loaner 2 weeks ago and i had the same 100 mile limit. It had a gps and it would notify them if we were speeding or left the area.

 

[RST Dana]

Some dealers do have that 100 mile radius. I had a loaner 2 weeks ago and i had the same 100 mile limit. It had a gps and it would notify them if we were speeding or left the area.

Unless it’s a Tesla, I doubt they could do much about it until you return it. It’s legally your to drive since you have the agreement the dealer gave you. It would be a hard case for LEO to become involved in.

 

[OR VietVet]

If it was me, I would show up in person and demand the offer that they approached you about. I would refuse to leave till I talked to someone that can follow up with what they started. Stories like this, keep giving me the warm and fuzzies, about my 2005 Tahoe Z71 and the reliability of it. Constantly see stories here with problems of the newer models. GM has over designed and over engineered to where they can't keep up with their own problems.

Not being contacted with a follow up about "offers" Is straight up BS. The 100 mile limit, when they have your warranty vehicle held hostage, is again, BS. They count on you not being confrontational about their feet dragging and are well versed with excuses. I give respect and props when it is due. In this case, I would likely make someone cry.

 

[CMoore711]

Keep in mind the 2019s and up is a newer generation l87 engine.

This is not accurate information.

All 2015-2020 K2XX SUV's with the 6.2L V8 are the L86. The L86 has Active Fuel Management (AFM); 4 cylinder mode.

The 6.2L L87 was introduced in 2019 but only for the GMC Sierra and Chevrolet Silverado models. The L87 was not used in the 2019-2020 GMC Full-size SUVs only the Full-size truck models equipped with the 6.2L. The L87 adds auto start/stop and Dynamic Fuel Management (DFM); ability to shut off multiple cylinders to operate on 8 cylinders, 6 cylinders, or 4 cylinders.

 

[Doubeleive]

So, I have a 2018 Escalade ESV that is under warranty with just under 60k miles. After having multiple issues with the car battery going dead, I started it one late September day and it began to misfire. The vehicle was taken to a trusted mechanic who found the problem to be with bank 1 and believed strongly it was a lifter issue and instructed me to take it immediately to the dealer. The next day at the dealer, diagnosis began and within a few days, it was diagnosed as a collapsed lifter and recommended that all bank 1 lifters be replaced under warranty. The work was performed and the dealership found the bank 1 lifters were "sticking" after the replacement and upon review with "GM" the entire engine would be replaced under warranty. That was in early October 2023, during the GM strike and I was warned that parts may not be available until the strike concluded.

The dealership has not been regularly communicative on status but do check in here and there only to tell me they are still waiting for the engine and have no ETA on its arrival. In late December, my service advisor suggested I call GM customer service and get them involved. I did and found out that the motor was backordered to the tune of approximately 1500 motors and my number was in the 400's. Originally, I was asked to contact GM about the issue for some type of credit for each month I had been waiting. The GM rep got back to me and said that due to the significant backorder issue I qualified for a special program that would amount to credit toward the purchase of a new GM vehicle. This offer turned out to be about 10%. My service advisor notified sales at the dealership and a salesperson reached out to me about the situation. I informed sales that I would need a number for what they dealer would offer me in trade for my vehicle to further consider taking the GM offer. That was over two weeks ago and I have heard nothing from sales. However, my service advisor did reach out to find out what was going on with sales and I informed them that I was still waiting on an offer number for my current escalade. That was last week since, no call back about the offer and nothing further from my service advisor but my GM customer service rep is great about regularly following up to see where things are and if I would be taking their offer toward the purchase of a new vehicle.

So, what can I do?

I like the new Escalade styling but it has the same engine with the same lifter/AFM issues. All other large GM SUVs have the same motor and the same potential problems. I have 4 kids and need the larger class of SUVs. For 4 months I am paying for a car that I cannot use with a problem I had warranty coverage for that cannot be fixed quickly. I had been given an XT6 for a few weeks as a loaner car but had to return it as it was "being sold" and have an XT4 that doesn't fit my family. I was unable to travel for the holidays given the loaner size and requirements to not leave a 100-mile radius of the dealership. I am not excited about buying another $120k vehicle at the moment regardless of 10% offer. Not to mention, the new escalade has potentially the same problems I am currently having but I may consider it if I was not hosed on the trade-in offer. I haven't received that and somewhat suspect they don't want the headache of waiting on an engine either or possibly they dont wish to add insult to injury by lowballing me given the situation.

Looking for wisdom of the group here - what can I do?

Basically you need to crawl up somebody's ass and camp out, that's how shit gets done. you just gotta find the right "person"
be it the dealership owner, general manager, whatever.
That may not get your engine done faster but will get everything else in place where it should be.
there's an old saying (chinese proverb) "the squeaky wheel gets the oil"

 

[Marky Dissod]

Gen5 refers to direct injection.
Active Fuel Management refers to GM V8s with V4 mode.

Dynamic Fuel Management is NOT Cadillac's Modulated Displacement from 1981, with V8, V6, & V4 modes (on Cadillac's final big-block V8, no less).

Dynamic Fuel Management refers to the ability to shut off any cylinder, singly or in combination with others, based on moment-to-moment power demand.
GM V8s with DFM (aka Dynamic Skip Fire) has seventeen potential firing orders, allowing V8, V7, V6, V5, V4, V3, AND V2 modes.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/general-motors-technology/general-motors-propulsion-technology/general-motors-dynamic-fuel-management-cylinder-deactivation-technology/

 

[CMoore711]

Gen5 refers to direct injection.
Active Fuel Management refers to GM V8s with V4 mode.

Dynamic Fuel Management is NOT Cadillac's Modulated Displacement from 1981, with V8, V6, & V4 modes (on Cadillac's final big-block V8, no less).

Dynamic Fuel Management refers to the ability to shut off any cylinder, singly or in combination with others, based on moment-to-moment power demand.
GM V8s with DFM (aka Dynamic Skip Fire) has seventeen potential firing orders, allowing V8, V7, V6, V5, V4, V3, AND V2 modes.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/general-motors-technology/general-motors-propulsion-technology/general-motors-dynamic-fuel-management-cylinder-deactivation-technology/

I knew the L87 DFM had different operating configurations than just V4 and V8 mode; but didn't realize it could be any number of cylinders with seventeen potential firing orders. That just sounds like an overly complicated system.

 

[Marky Dissod]

I knew the L87 DFM had different operating configurations than just V4 and V8 mode; but didn't realize it could be any number of cylinders with seventeen potential firing orders.
That just sounds like an overly complicated system.

I actually have some experience with INCREASING the V4 mode duty cycle in a '12 Yukon XL.
The same 4 cylinders shut down. The changes I made caused those 4 cylinders to carbon up, eventually increasing oil consumption.
That problem, is that the shut-down cylinders eventually cool, which also limits how long an engine can stay in V4 mode.
(Very early Chrysler V8s pushed their V4 mode duty cycle a wee lil bit too long, cracking engine blocks from cylinder temp differentials.)

Dynamic Cylinder Mgmt (I know) can disable any (or potentially EVERY) cylinder.
So when it goes into (for simplicity's sake) V4 mode, it varies which cylinders stay on or shut off constantly.
This helps to maintain cylinder temps, reducing carbon buildup, which is a good thing.

Ultimately the weakness of these iterations of cylinder deactivation engine remains the dual-mode lifters.
The variable lifters simply cannot be built to withstand as much / last as long as one-mode lifters.

No matter how much more it would cost GM (or any other OE, for that matter) to improve on the specs / design hardware,
be sure that they will NOT do it.

 

[iamlegion]

This is not accurate information.

All 2015-2020 K2XX SUV's with the 6.2L V8 are the L86. The L86 has Active Fuel Management (AFM); 4 cylinder mode.

The 6.2L L87 was introduced in 2019 but only for the GMC Sierra and Chevrolet Silverado models. The L87 was not used in the 2019-2020 GMC Full-size SUVs only the Full-size truck models equipped with the 6.2L. The L87 adds auto start/stop and Dynamic Fuel Management (DFM); ability to shut off multiple cylinders to operate on 8 cylinders, 6 cylinders, or 4 cylinders.

amazing how the internet makes people so confidently wrong. I literally have a K2XX and T1 in my driveway with an L87.

Part of what you said was right, would you like to google a bit and come back and try again?

 

[CMoore711]

@nuclearxp All good @Marky Dissod covered the correct info in post #13 with additional detail on how DFM works differently than AFM.

 

[Geotrash]

amazing how the internet makes people so confidently wrong. I literally have a K2XX and T1 in my driveway with an L87.

Part of what you said was right, would you like to google a bit and come back and try again?

I would be VERY surprised to learn that you have a K2XX SUV with an L87 from the factory. You might want to double-check the RPO code sticker in the glove box. I'll bet you'll find it's an L86 on the sticker.

 

[Geotrash]

To the OP, I'm sorry about your situation. We only have 2 kids and would be lost without the space in our Yukon XL's. If I were in your shoes, I'd try to negotiate a long-term rental Suburban through GM from Enterprise to get you through however long it takes. Having a new engine in your Escalade is a very good thing for both durability and future resale value. With the K2 generation, you can have someone tune out the AFM for you and not worry about the bimodal lifters crapping out on you again.

Even with 10% off on a new one you're going to get killed on the depreciation in the first 5 years. Meanwhile, your 2018 is already through its max depreciation rate curve and its value is quickly stabilizing. A 6-year old Escalade with a new engine is automotive gold for the financially savvy.

 

[iamlegion]

I would be VERY surprised to learn that you have a K2XX SUV with an L87 from the factory. You might want to double-check the RPO code sticker in the glove box. I'll bet you'll find it's an L86 on the sticker.

They don’t put them there any more….