Let's sift through every square inch of a 2013 Tahoe PPV

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

OP
OP
Caddylack

Caddylack

Full Access Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Posts
236
Reaction score
215
Yeah, I've tossed around all sorts of ideas for intakes. I probably won't actually use a dryer exhaust.

I mean, really, my current intake tube would be fine if I just switched out the rubber elbow for a "mandrel" bent variant.

I like the BTR truck cam kit for under $400, with their mild "Torque" cam. It comes with springs and pushrods.

Breaking news: The old-ass rotted tire on the right front had a bit of a sidewall failure. It's hissing loud as hell. That's what I get.

"But it still has good tread!"

IMG_20230107_174626852.jpg
 

iamdub

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
20,821
Reaction score
45,013
Location
Li'l Weezyana
Yeah, I've tossed around all sorts of ideas for intakes. I probably won't actually use a dryer exhaust.

I mean, really, my current intake tube would be fine if I just switched out the rubber elbow for a "mandrel" bent variant.

Also, losing the resonator chambers will let you hear the intake growl in proportion to load. You'd probably barely hear it over the exhaust, though. I had my MIT before my muffler and was satisfied enough with the growl for a while that I didn't care about a louder muffler.


I like the BTR truck cam kit for under $400, with their mild "Torque" cam. It comes with springs and pushrods.

They put together good stuff. You're on the right mindset for this rig. Although, that 6L80 lets you get away with a little more cam, especially if you're interested in taller gears. But, it can be a slippery slope with more cam, a torque converter, etc. Pick a goal and stick to it.


Breaking news: The old-ass rotted tire on the right front had a bit of a sidewall failure. It's hissing loud as hell. That's what I get.

"But it still has good tread!"

View attachment 389132

LAME.
 
OP
OP
Caddylack

Caddylack

Full Access Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Posts
236
Reaction score
215
Also, losing the resonator chambers will let you hear the intake growl in proportion to load. You'd probably barely hear it over the exhaust, though. I had my MIT before my muffler and was satisfied enough with the growl for a while that I didn't care about a louder muffler.
You may forget: https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/data/attachments/375/375838-85757bd6494b42f4368a0a183b0c90f2.jpg

When a kid at the car wash asked me to rev my engine (after exhaust), he actually looked at the front of car first, as if the noise were coming from there.
You're on the right mindset for this rig. Although, that 6L80 lets you get away with a little more cam, especially if you're interested in taller gears. But, it can be a slippery slope with more cam, a torque converter, etc. Pick a goal and stick to it.
Well, this car will probably have two "phases".

For right now, I just want a solid daily that performs well enough to keep me entertained. I have other cars that are much faster than the Tahoe, and they need attention.

Eventually, the Tahoe will be old enough to get "restored", and then I will get more serious about making big power. I intend to keep the car for a long time, as I don't like how the GM trucks keep getting more and more computeridiculous. I'm not getting in line for a newer Tahoe anytime soon.
 

iamdub

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
20,821
Reaction score
45,013
Location
Li'l Weezyana
You may forget: https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/data/attachments/375/375838-85757bd6494b42f4368a0a183b0c90f2.jpg

When a kid at the car wash asked me to rev my engine (after exhaust), he actually looked at the front of car first, as if the noise were coming from there.

Of course I forget! If it's more than a week or two, it's ancient history. I had some deja vu and was somewhat remembering having this same convo with someone recently. It's a common subject. Maybe that last convo about it was ours.


Well, this car will probably have two "phases".

For right now, I just want a solid daily that performs well enough to keep me entertained. I have other cars that are much faster than the Tahoe, and they need attention.

Eventually, the Tahoe will be old enough to get "restored", and then I will get more serious about making big power. I intend to keep the car for a long time, as I don't like how the GM trucks keep getting more and more computeridiculous. I'm not getting in line for a newer Tahoe anytime soon.

There's plenty of relatively cheap and easy things you can do to squeeze more fun out of it that would help keep it interesting and would support future mods so they wouldn't be wasted. It might not be as fast as your other toys, but it can be faster than it's current self or even just more fun despite not being faster, such as that handling we've discussed. Hucking a Tahoe through the turns like a much smaller vehicle can be more fun that it being faster.

Agreed about the GM products getting worse. I believe the GMT800 was the peak of their reliability and the '900 was the start down the other side of the hill. But, the '900 was still close enough to the "peak" that its reliability was still very good and just needed AFM knocked out. Each generation since has been more and more iffy in many other aspects other than engine issues, and a lot seems to be related to the computeridiculousness.
 
OP
OP
Caddylack

Caddylack

Full Access Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Posts
236
Reaction score
215
I'm still waiting for them to bring back carburetors.

I agree that GMT800 was the peak of reliability.

On sway bars... I keep forgetting to bring this up...

I have always felt like the rear end links on the 800/900 are too long to even do anything. As an alternative to getting a bigger sway bar, what about brackets to shorten the end links? Heim joints would be nice.
 

iamdub

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
20,821
Reaction score
45,013
Location
Li'l Weezyana
I'm still waiting for them to bring back carburetors.

I agree that GMT800 was the peak of reliability.

On sway bars... I keep forgetting to bring this up...

I have always felt like the rear end links on the 800/900 are too long to even do anything. As an alternative to getting a bigger sway bar, what about brackets to shorten the end links? Heim joints would be nice.

The links are the length they are to keep the bar parallel to the ground at ride height. Shortening them would alter the angle of the bar, affecting the leverage the arm has on the body via the links. The idea is for the link to be orthogonal to the sway bar and for the link to be in tension or compression. The more angled the bar and/or link is, the less of the swaybar's force (as in resistance to bend) is transferred to the body to keep it straight/flat. The forces are more longitudinal (relative to vehicle), transferring more to the bushings in a "sideways" momentum.

Now, HOW it would affect the leverage is the question. I've half-assed pondered this. All I know at the moment is I have much shorter links due to my drop. There are so many other factors to consider when determining in ideal end link length and swaybar angle. The arc of the axle which is affected by a lowered ride height, for instance. Technically, the mounting points on the frame should be adjusted forward after a sizeable drop to compensate. The length of the link, and this is more directly related to your question, helps reduce the rate of change in the link's angle as the axle cycles through its ROM. So, if you meant brackets to lower the mounting point from the frame and used shorter links accordingly, then those links would pivot more as the axle cycles. The increased angles would decrease the effective leverage while increasing longitudinal loads on the bushings.

I guess my point is that it's all too small of an effect, even if it can be beneficial to even bother with. Just keeping the bar level at your ride height is the main goal. If this demands shorter or longer end links, then make the necessary changes.

Again- just my half-assed and technically unqualified thoughts. At least you're getting what you paid for.
 
OP
OP
Caddylack

Caddylack

Full Access Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Posts
236
Reaction score
215
The increased angles would decrease the effective leverage while increasing longitudinal loads on the bushings.
I figure a stiffer sway bar would also increase longitudinal load on the bushings, right?

Leverage being decreased?
 
OP
OP
Caddylack

Caddylack

Full Access Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Posts
236
Reaction score
215
I figure a stiffer sway bar would also increase longitudinal load on the bushings, right?
Wait, no, I get it now.

I'm curious how much performance testing GM has done with this platform, considering they have never really made any high performance variants.

Like, how much time did they spend on the length of the end links? The GMT360 uses tiny rear end links. What's the difference?
 

iamdub

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
20,821
Reaction score
45,013
Location
Li'l Weezyana
I'm curious how much performance testing GM has done with this platform, considering they have never really made any high performance variants.

If the Denali, LTZ, LT, LS, PPV, etc. all share the same sway bar, then I'd assume not much.


Like, how much time did they spend on the length of the end links? The GMT360 uses tiny rear end links. What's the difference?

The links just need to connect the end of the bar to the vehicle while being straight up and the bar parallel to the ground. That's it. No further thought is required. All the engineers needed to do was look straight up from the end of the sway bar with it positioned flat, find a spot on the frame to have a top mount for the end link, and design a link that fits that space. There's a convenient "frame" location about 4" up from where the bar is on the GMT360. Still, the bar itself is parallel to the ground. On the GMT800 and '900, there's nothing for about 9".
 
OP
OP
Caddylack

Caddylack

Full Access Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Posts
236
Reaction score
215
What's interesting about the GMT360 rear bars is that they aren't very straight... Meaning, the bar can't really be very parallel. The end links are also pretty awkward.

I have one of these hanging from the rear axle of my 94 Fleetwood from zip ties. I'm playing around with a bracket kit, because those cars don't have an axle/frame mounted rear bar.
 

iamdub

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
20,821
Reaction score
45,013
Location
Li'l Weezyana
What's interesting about the GMT360 rear bars is that they aren't very straight... Meaning, the bar can't really be very parallel. The end links are also pretty awkward.

I have one of these hanging from the rear axle of my 94 Fleetwood from zip ties. I'm playing around with a bracket kit, because those cars don't have an axle/frame mounted rear bar.

In my recent sway bar research in trying to come up with a solution for my end links, a buddy (mechanical engineer, builds crawlers and overlanders, etc.) told me he read somewhere that the bar is optimal at an angle of around 15°. But, he's an off-road guy so this might've been related to that, maybe for better articulation. Considering this, how well it works as-is and after looking at my bar's angle, I'm now not as concerned about flattening it as I am about fixing the funky end link angles.
 
OP
OP
Caddylack

Caddylack

Full Access Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Posts
236
Reaction score
215
Okay, let's say that instead of shortening the end links, we just make them more rigid.

I noticed that Hotckis end links are much thicker than OEM, as far as the rod/shaft portion. I feel like the bushings would be the best way to stiffen things up.

What about an end link with a heim joint at the frame end, and an OEM-style poly bushing at the bar? Combined with a thicker rod/shaft.
 

iamdub

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
20,821
Reaction score
45,013
Location
Li'l Weezyana
Okay, let's say that instead of shortening the end links, we just make them more rigid.

I noticed that Hotckis end links are much thicker than OEM, as far as the rod/shaft portion. I feel like the bushings would be the best way to stiffen things up.

What about an end link with a heim joint at the frame end, and an OEM-style poly bushing at the bar? Combined with a thicker rod/shaft.

If the links are straight up and down, or, at least linear to the movement of the bar, then they'd be in tension and compression versus shear. A metal rod is much stronger in tension or compression than in shear, so it can be smaller or hollow, as the factory ones are. Hotchkis's links are adjustable, so they're gonna be huge since it's a threaded rod going inside a threaded boss. Also, many aftermarket performance parts tend to excessively, even unnecessarily bulky to emphasize their "heavy duty/performance" aspect. They wouldn't want customers feeling they got a weak and inferior product for the big bucks they dropped, right?

Massive, He-Man links just aren't as necessary as we'd think. Take the rear links for my relocated sway bar, for example. They're offset, so the rod in between and their welded joints are surely under a lot of shear loads, especially with my driving. The rod itself appears spindly and weak, never mind the two bends in it. Surprisingly, I see no indication of failure- yet. I would not be the least bit disappointed if one bent or snapped one day.

You're right- the bushings are what deflect the most while in action. Rubber, polyurethane, thermoplastic, etc. will all deflect long before the solid steel parts. But, you need some sort of cushioning since metal-on-metal is harsh and can be noisy.

for an adjustable link, I like the idea of a Heim and bushed link for the rear. My response to that is that the adjustability, in general, is just not needed. How often are you adjusting your link length? It's the same as why I wouldn't buy or build fully adjustable trailing arms. Once you get the rear end where you want it, you're done. All the extra expense in having the adjustability is now spent. I plan to get new lower arms and lengthen them to put the rear end where I want it. I'll make adjustable uppers to match the length and set the pinion angle. Even then, the uppers will be simple, requiring the link to be unbolted on that one end, screwed in or out as needed, then bolted back in place. No need for the double threaded stud setup like the adjustable panhard is. Lower arms will be stock rubber bushings, uppers will be poly. I think Hotchkis made adjustable links as a way to complement their adjustable bar leverage and to fit a range of ride heights, since all of that affects the mounting point distances. As for the beefiness, it's appreciated, but not required.

I don't think there's enough lost movement in the end links to worry with striving for solid bushings (Heims). I think poly is plenty sufficient for a daily driven street car. Heims would wear and become noisy, requiring maintenance. It's creating a maintenance point where you'd never see any benefit.
 
OP
OP
Caddylack

Caddylack

Full Access Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Posts
236
Reaction score
215
I'm probably overemphasizing the end links being skinny, but it just blows my mind that they could do much of anything with the vehicle being so heavy.

I don't care much about adjustability, I'm just uncertain of the correct balance between bar stiffness and end link stiffness. Like you said, the same sway bars are used on all GMT900 models, regardless of ride height or anything else. There is surely some margin for error, and it's unlikely that GM spent any more time on it after declaring the setup "good enough".

I like the front end links from Spohn that are spherical on one end.
 

iamdub

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
20,821
Reaction score
45,013
Location
Li'l Weezyana
I'm probably overemphasizing the end links being skinny, but it just blows my mind that they could do much of anything with the vehicle being so heavy.

I agree. The stock tube style links looks stronger than the DJM links I have now. I thought for sure I'd break one by now.


I like the front end links from Spohn that are spherical on one end.

Googling...
 

iamdub

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
20,821
Reaction score
45,013
Location
Li'l Weezyana
It's a mod that I am familiar with from the full-frame cars. I know Spohn makes the same thing for B, G, and F bodies, among others.

You tease. I was looking all over their site for such links that could be adapted to the mounting style we have in the front.

*EDIT* I found them in the F body section. I see what they have. It's like a bar pin eliminator for shocks. $90 for the pair. If they could fit in the space allowed, they'd be an easy bolt-in solution.
 

iamdub

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
20,821
Reaction score
45,013
Location
Li'l Weezyana


Yup. That be's them. I was looking at the SEL-19-406 since they appeared to be the shortest they offered.

But then I referred back to my pic and decided that I just don't have enough space for links- period.

IMG_E4158.JPG



Maybe I should look for a big ol' donut bushing, some fender washers, and a 4" bolt and let the donut bushing provide whatever flex it may. It'd probably feel like I solid axle swapped it.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
138,045
Posts
1,997,777
Members
102,982
Latest member
MoundMedic7

Latest posts

Back
Top