GM better come up with something better than their current engine lineups

[TollKeeper]

I know a couple guys that are running those new 2022/23 Toyotas on the Mt Evans Loop (for a testing company). They hate them. Always hunting for gears, never knows what it needs to do. They arent allowed to manually shift them, as they cant interfere with the datalogging.

Maybe they will get a programming right when it gets to production, but right now...

 

[Fless]

I know a couple guys that are running those new 2022/23 Toyotas on the Mt Evans Loop. They hate them. Always hunting for gears, never knows what it needs to do. They arent allowed to manually shift them, as they cant interfere with the datalogging.

Maybe they will get a programming right when it gets to production, but right now...

What exactly is the Mt. Evans Loop? Been up near there to hike Hells Hole.

 

[Bill 1960]

My best, most memorable, cars were the ones those commies at Consumer Reports hated the most. I quit taking them seriously in the 1980s as those guys favored anything not American. If they had their way, we'd be driving Trabants and Ladas.

Now, tell us what you *really* think.

I’m on the same page. Most of my vehicles would get “canceled “ if those bleeping worrywarts had their way.

 

[adventurenali92]

@Fireman591 im curious... have you actually driven a Ford with the “ecoboost” engine? Like a full size? We had two limited package expedition ELs back in October up in Salt Lake City as rentals when I was with my best friends parents. I’m sorry but a full size long wheel base suv with a V6, even though it’s turbo charged, is just not sufficient. A vehicle weighing in as much as the expedition EL does, needs 8 cylinders. I rode in both and drove one, and they were absolutely snails!

Now with that being said, the ecoboost engines are great in the smaller platforms like the sedans, the small crossover escapes and the even the explorers. I’ve driven a couple of higher end package explorers for customers over the last couple years, and to say their quick on their feet is an understatement! But that’s because they weigh in quite a bit less than even a standard wheel base expedition. Does GM have some improving to do with their current gen platforms, absolutely!! I don’t argue with that. But V8s, in my opinion, are the answer for full size SUVs and pickups!

 

[Fireman591]

Same here... I've owners 2 Jaguars now, Who would EVER buy one of those? Best Warranty and Maintenance plan in the industry... Both have been solid and 100% better service than any GM dealership. PU and delivery with loaner at home for ANY issue, even if it would need a flatbed...

Hertz has some Jaguars in the fleet and i have driven long distances to pick them up for our customers. I will say being in a Jaguar you can tell it is way above everyone when it comes to quality and a solid feel.

 

[Fireman591]

@Fireman591 im curious... have you actually driven a Ford with the “ecoboost” engine? Like a full size? We had two limited package expedition ELs back in October up in Salt Lake City as rentals when I was with my best friends parents. I’m sorry but a full size long wheel base suv with a V6, even though it’s turbo charged, is just not sufficient. A vehicle weighing in as much as the expedition EL does, needs 8 cylinders. I rode in both and drove one, and they were absolutely snails!

Now with that being said, the ecoboost engines are great in the smaller platforms like the sedans, the small crossover escapes and the even the explorers. I’ve driven a couple of higher end package explorers for customers over the last couple years, and to say their quick on their feet is an understatement! But that’s because they weigh in quite a bit less than even a standard wheel base expedition. Does GM have some improving to do with their current gen platforms, absolutely!! I don’t argue with that. But V8s, in my opinion, are the answer for full size SUVs and pickups!

I would never own a Ford. They hands down gave us the most trouble in our rental car fleet. As far as the I-Force max Toyota engine. You are comparing apples to oranges. Keep in mind this is a hybrid set up and a beast at that. 437hp and 583 lb-ft of torque!!!!!! The torque curve is pretty flat also thanks to the EV motor between the engine and transmission. Test drive one when available and I'll bet you will change your opinion of the V8s ruling the big suvs. I can't wait too test drive one of these. The engine is built in Alabama and the vehicle in Texas. It is a win win and protects American jobs Still not ruling out the 3.0 diesel from GM even though it is a total snail off the line.

 

[adventurenali92]

I would never own a Ford. They hands down gave us the most trouble in our rental car fleet. As far as the I-Force max Toyota engine. You are comparing apples to oranges. Keep in mind this is a hybrid set up and a beast at that. 437hp and 583 lb-ft of torque!!!!!! The torque curve is pretty flat also thanks to the EV motor between the engine and transmission. Test drive one when available and I'll bet you will change your opinion of the V8s ruling the big suvs. I can't wait too test drive one of these. The engine is built in Alabama and the vehicle in Texas. It is a win win and protects American jobs Still not ruling out the 3.0 diesel from GM even though it is a total snail off the line.

Expect that I wasn’t comparing the Toyota in my comments.

 

[Fireman591]

Expect that I wasn’t comparing the Toyota in my comments.

Good thing because the Toyota's 437hp and 583 lb-ft of torque from the I-Force Max engine blows away the Eco Boost. In fact those numbers are better than most V8s. just curious too see how this power train holds up. I grew up under the " There is no replacement for displacement" rule like many of us on here LOL

 

[gooffeyguy]

"There is no replacement for displacement"

There isn't when it comes to torque, unless there's an electric motor thrown into the mix.

 

[swathdiver]

...Still not ruling out the 3.0 diesel from GM even though it is a total snail off the line.

Around 8:40 minute mark:

 

[Rangerdeepv]

The 3L Duramax seems pretty new to me although am getting up in years.

 

[TollKeeper]

What exactly is the Mt. Evans Loop? Been up near there to hike Hells Hole.

Thats just the term their company gives it. Drive up to Idaho Springs, head up to Mt Evans, but instead of turning off on the road that actually takes you to Mt Evans, you keep going, and it brings you out in Genesee I think.

 

[Fless]

Thats just the term their company gives it. Drive up to Idaho Springs, head up to Mt Evans, but instead of turning off on the road that actually takes you to Mt Evans, you keep going, and it brings you out in Genesee I think.

Ok, I've done that drive many times. I need to do a little summer hiking from the Echo Lake site, tracking with my hiking GPS. That way I can follow the right path when I snowshoe. In the winter, the snowshoers go everywhere and one can't follow an actual trail.

 

[Bill 1960]

Good thing because the Toyota's 437hp and 583 lb-ft of torque from the I-Force Max engine blows away the Eco Boost. In fact those numbers are better than most V8s. just curious too see how this power train holds up. I grew up under the " There is no replacement for displacement" rule like many of us on here LOL

Um, the F150 V6 hybrid is 430/570. Which means nothing more than Ford hit the market first, and Toyota simply tweaked the programming to be #1. Until the next round of one-upmanship takes place.

Don’t take this as disdain for T, I think they’re tops in reliability engineering. Yet they have a long term conservative approach that has never kept them on top of the HP wars any length of time. FCA has been selling trucks with outrageously high numbers for a while. Ford has versions of the EB running at much higher states of tune in other vehicles. All of these forced induction vehicles are just a tune away from significantly different output.

 

[Fireman591]

"There is no replacement for displacement"

There isn't when it comes to torque, unless there's an electric motor thrown into the mix.

True that LOL

 

[TollKeeper]

The irony about that, the 4.2 engine found in the GMT360, and the 4.0 found in the jeeps, both Inline 6's, were dropped because of issues meeting emission standards.

Than GM brings in a I-6 diesel, and doesnt have issues? Why does this not make sense?

 

[gooffeyguy]

The irony about that, the 4.2 engine found in the GMT360, and the 4.0 found in the jeeps, both Inline 6's, were dropped because of issues meeting emission standards.

Than GM brings in a I-6 diesel, and doesnt have issues? Why does this not make sense?

The folks at VW could probably answer that

 

[Bill 1960]

The irony about that, the 4.2 engine found in the GMT360, and the 4.0 found in the jeeps, both Inline 6's, were dropped because of issues meeting emission standards.

Than GM brings in a I-6 diesel, and doesnt have issues? Why does this not make sense?

I don’t buy their rationale for a moment. Marketing has conditioned consumers to expect and demand “new and improved”. Corporate shills push the engineers to give them something different. And of course engineering needs to rationalize a budget and headcount. And so the wheel turns.
Just watch any automotive review. Anything not fresh off the drawing board is “dated”, “showing it’s age”, or “ancient” if its a 4Runner.
Today, they’ll sell the advantages of a compact V. Tomorrow sing the praises of a smooth in-line.

My opinion is retiring a successful engine while laying the blame on the EPA is just more marketing genius at work.

 

[fr8bil]

As I recently explained to our ex-SIL who was buying a twin-turbo Ford F-150, a turbocharger requires owner-understanding that like a set of brakes, a turbo will eventually wear-out and fail. You can extend their life by using only top-rated synthetic oil like Amsoil's Signature series and changing it more frequently but turbo wear and tear occurs at time of shut-down when they are still spinning and very hot and all of sudden the oil-supply stops and oil "coking" occurs. Having owned a Y2K F-350 with the older 7.3 Powerstroke and putting over 500K on it over 12 years I acquired a lot of knowledge about care and feeding of one large turbo and very early in the first month of ownership installed an ISSPRO turbo-temp monitor thermocouple in the downpipe that prevented fuel shutoff until the thermocouple in the downpipe said it had cooled to less than 300 F. Manufacturers are now trying to convince turbo engine owners, that have enough understanding to inquire, that thermal convection will continue to move the coolant past the turbo to sufficiently cool it after engine shut off.....LMAO ! All this is ignoring the introduction of oil vapors from the PCV system into the multiple intercooler and pressurized intake hoses that can lead to blow-off of said hoses from their metal mounting surfaces. There's a definite reason Ford tech's ( one of my best and closest friends happens to have been one at a very large Dealer before he went to Mercedes) will opt, like Bill 1960 posted, for the V-8's on their personal vehicles.

 

[TahoeFL2017]

Thinking the electric transition is going to be front and center for all the OEMs going forward. Hanging on to my 5.3 as long as possible!