4 Piston Big Brake Upgrade from 2019-20
- Thread starter fasteddy
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the_tool_man
Full Access Member
For this to be a viable option for me, I'd have to be able to fit the wheels I'm running ('15-'19 Esky Platinum 22's). Since wheel fitment is such an issue, I'm trying to figure out how to get past the need to buy and install parts and check my wheels directly.
Anyone with some drawing skills want to take careful measurements of a mounted caliper relative to the hub flange and draw up a template? That would let anyone check their wheels without much trouble.
I would do it if I had a caliper...but then I wouldn't need to, lol.
Anyone with some drawing skills want to take careful measurements of a mounted caliper relative to the hub flange and draw up a template? That would let anyone check their wheels without much trouble.
I would do it if I had a caliper...but then I wouldn't need to, lol.
Dantheman1540
Full Access Member
Oh man, I am terrible at artistry, what exact wheels are they? Can you post a pic? I might be able to find enough info comparing my LTZ20s to yours to know if they would fit.
the_tool_man
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Dantheman1540
Full Access Member
So using a site that sells OEM replicas this is the data I've found for your wheels and mine.
My ltz20s have 31mm of offset and yours have 24mm however, my wheels and 8.5" and yours are 9". So maybe someone smart will chime in and tell you if they will fit better than mine did or not
My ltz20s have 31mm of offset and yours have 24mm however, my wheels and 8.5" and yours are 9". So maybe someone smart will chime in and tell you if they will fit better than mine did or not
mattbta
Full Access Member
Actually I was wrong...it's 27mm. Still curious as this one has less offset but is wider. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
the_tool_man
Full Access Member
I think the spoke design has more to do with whether the caliper will clear than anything. That's why I advocated making a template that outlines the cross-section of the caliper relative to the wheel hub. This could be held against the back of any wheel to check clearance.
George B
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If someone makes an outline and can get it onto an 11X17 PDF it would be shareable...
Sparksalot
Elite Member
Be sure to draw a scale onto the template so others know it printed correctly.
Dantheman1540
Full Access Member
I wish I had the skills to do a good template but I really don't. My spare is getting sent off today but when hes done just send him $20 to get the test caliper and then charge the next guy the same.
AN292
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So is there a definitive washer size we use here? Anybody got a link? Thanks
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fasteddy
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I used two 1/2 inch inside diameter washers.
Home depot sells them. I got some hardened ones at another place.
I had to trim the washers on the top of drivers side spindle to get it to seat flat.
My spindles were a bit different I don't know why.
With two washers the passenger side lined up perfectly over the rotor.
The driver's side was a few hairs off, so I thinned one washer top and bottom, with a grinder to attain a near perfect offset....(probably overkill)
Other than that everything bolted together fine.
I really like the caliper assembly.
I like how GM put that coating on the back of the pads to help adhere to the pistons....maybe some harmonic benefit too.
I really like how the retainer goes in, keeps tension on the pins and spreads the pads
I like how the cotter pins for the caliper pins are pre-bent and install easily by hand.
I like how the pads fit over the rotors....very precise.
Overall, a thoughtfully engineered assembly.
Mine are installed.
They function much better than the other brakes....like "orders of magnitude" better.
Haven't done any high speed testing yet, as I got busy with other things.
I'll test more over the weekend and next week....and report back.
Home depot sells them. I got some hardened ones at another place.
I had to trim the washers on the top of drivers side spindle to get it to seat flat.
My spindles were a bit different I don't know why.
With two washers the passenger side lined up perfectly over the rotor.
The driver's side was a few hairs off, so I thinned one washer top and bottom, with a grinder to attain a near perfect offset....(probably overkill)
Other than that everything bolted together fine.
I really like the caliper assembly.
I like how GM put that coating on the back of the pads to help adhere to the pistons....maybe some harmonic benefit too.
I really like how the retainer goes in, keeps tension on the pins and spreads the pads
I like how the cotter pins for the caliper pins are pre-bent and install easily by hand.
I like how the pads fit over the rotors....very precise.
Overall, a thoughtfully engineered assembly.
Mine are installed.
They function much better than the other brakes....like "orders of magnitude" better.
Haven't done any high speed testing yet, as I got busy with other things.
I'll test more over the weekend and next week....and report back.
Dantheman1540
Full Access Member
Glad to know it feels considerably better! I think I will do some before and after controlled testing, I did years back for the NNBS swap so might as well for this one too.
the_tool_man
Full Access Member
Outstanding! Let us know how they do with multiple stops, and how it changes pedal effort and stroke. TIA.
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fasteddy
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Ya know, I'm fairly new to this site. I'm not supposed to be the test monkey.
That's usually reserved for those with greater Hoe-perience.
But.....
I actually bled the brakes again today to make sure I had all the air out of the football sized calipers.
I didn't find any more air, its just something I do, like re-torqueing lug nuts.
Then I tested the "Super Calipers" again today and I have to say I LOVE them!
You can't beat it for the money and I'm very happy with the result so far.
I didn't lay out my success criteria but I'll give you two that I always use.
1. Length of pedal push to substantial brake engagement.
2. Length of braking zone-stopping distance.
On 1., The length of pedal push is about an inch (eyeball). That's comparable to my 19 suburban with vacuum/booster 6P caliper brakes.
My 18 Colorado which has very good brakes and the smallest booster I've ever seen is about a 1/2 inch. Compared to the old 2P Tahoe brakes the pedal push
is MUCH improved. Multiple stops from 60 did not change the pedal push length. It got shorter as I would expect as the pads and rotors heated up.
Cold should be the worst. Warm should be best. And overheated should fade. I'm not running high temp fluid like a Motul 600....More like Orielly's Synthetic Dot3.
On 2. Coming up to a familiar stop sign at around 50mph, I would say my braking zone was CUT IN HALF, which I'm am very pleased about.
I need to do the freeway following test. On the previous calipers I would have to give at least 6-7 car lengths at 70mph to safely stop to the car in front of me .
(I know that's what the CA DMV rule is). But that just lends itself to be cutoff left and right and I hate that. I don't tailgate people like I'm driving Nascar but braking power
commands respect! As opposed to braking weakness which leaves me no choice but to leave lots of space and be dominated by dorks.
On cost I have about $650 into it.
$500 in GM parts, $70 in SS lines, $50 in machining, $10 in fluid and $20 in paint.
$100 of the GM part cost was shipping, rotors and calipers are heavy!
The key item here to remember it that the GM Super Caliper has approx. 20% more pad area than the Wilwood 6P caliper with the 16" rotor.
So pad area per dollar is about a 25% of the cost of the next leg up braking system (166 vs 43). That's why I call it the Super Caliper.
It has more pad area than any 6P caliper on the market at 25% of the cost....minimum, and that's pretty super.
I've had big wilwoods on a Tahoe and I'm not sure they stop better than these do.
That's usually reserved for those with greater Hoe-perience.
But.....
I actually bled the brakes again today to make sure I had all the air out of the football sized calipers.
I didn't find any more air, its just something I do, like re-torqueing lug nuts.
Then I tested the "Super Calipers" again today and I have to say I LOVE them!
You can't beat it for the money and I'm very happy with the result so far.
I didn't lay out my success criteria but I'll give you two that I always use.
1. Length of pedal push to substantial brake engagement.
2. Length of braking zone-stopping distance.
On 1., The length of pedal push is about an inch (eyeball). That's comparable to my 19 suburban with vacuum/booster 6P caliper brakes.
My 18 Colorado which has very good brakes and the smallest booster I've ever seen is about a 1/2 inch. Compared to the old 2P Tahoe brakes the pedal push
is MUCH improved. Multiple stops from 60 did not change the pedal push length. It got shorter as I would expect as the pads and rotors heated up.
Cold should be the worst. Warm should be best. And overheated should fade. I'm not running high temp fluid like a Motul 600....More like Orielly's Synthetic Dot3.
On 2. Coming up to a familiar stop sign at around 50mph, I would say my braking zone was CUT IN HALF, which I'm am very pleased about.
I need to do the freeway following test. On the previous calipers I would have to give at least 6-7 car lengths at 70mph to safely stop to the car in front of me .
(I know that's what the CA DMV rule is). But that just lends itself to be cutoff left and right and I hate that. I don't tailgate people like I'm driving Nascar but braking power
commands respect! As opposed to braking weakness which leaves me no choice but to leave lots of space and be dominated by dorks.
On cost I have about $650 into it.
$500 in GM parts, $70 in SS lines, $50 in machining, $10 in fluid and $20 in paint.
$100 of the GM part cost was shipping, rotors and calipers are heavy!
The key item here to remember it that the GM Super Caliper has approx. 20% more pad area than the Wilwood 6P caliper with the 16" rotor.
So pad area per dollar is about a 25% of the cost of the next leg up braking system (166 vs 43). That's why I call it the Super Caliper.
It has more pad area than any 6P caliper on the market at 25% of the cost....minimum, and that's pretty super.
I've had big wilwoods on a Tahoe and I'm not sure they stop better than these do.
Last edited:
corvette744
2004 Z-71
Did you have the stock calipers and rotors or the upgraded 07-14 calipers and rotors on yours before you went to this.
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fasteddy
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I had stock calipers and rotors on an 03. Had fairly new high friction pads and the brakes still sucked.
Just a note: If you don't feel comfortable with non-standard solutions, like where you have to get washers (huh?) for spacers and
potentially trim washers to fit spindles or shave them to center the caliper over the rotor.....,
Then this upgrade isn't for you.
I'm just restoring an 18 year old Tahoe (which is vintage class) partly in protest of not wanting to paying $85K for a new one. So I'm trying to get as close to the
performance of a new one as possible and still stay within my budget. This brake upgrade is very comparable in cost to replacing with stock level
stop tech calipers, rotors and pads.
I don't know what the 07-14 brake upgrade is. Is that simply bolt on?
I've had an 08 and a 12 Tahoe. Still an ugly 2P caliper and braking performance was nothing to love.
Just a note: If you don't feel comfortable with non-standard solutions, like where you have to get washers (huh?) for spacers and
potentially trim washers to fit spindles or shave them to center the caliper over the rotor.....,
Then this upgrade isn't for you.
I'm just restoring an 18 year old Tahoe (which is vintage class) partly in protest of not wanting to paying $85K for a new one. So I'm trying to get as close to the
performance of a new one as possible and still stay within my budget. This brake upgrade is very comparable in cost to replacing with stock level
stop tech calipers, rotors and pads.
I don't know what the 07-14 brake upgrade is. Is that simply bolt on?
I've had an 08 and a 12 Tahoe. Still an ugly 2P caliper and braking performance was nothing to love.
Wilwood includes shims with their kits that consist of super thin and thin washers, never mic’d them but they are a fraction of the thickness of a regular washer, there’s a bunch in every kit. I’m having a hard time believing just one random washer from the hardware store is centering these perfectly. Maybe a set of shims can be purchased in order to get these perfect. It’s important on calipers that don’t use slide pins to center them perfectly.
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