Power loss

[OR VietVet]

Cleaning it with degreaser or hitting it lightly with sandpaper to make a better connection?

A lot of times, just the friction of unplugging and plugging back in, multiple times, is enough to clean the connections. It would not hurt to use some electrical cleaner while apart. Also, inspect the connectors and pins for anything that does not look right or misaligned. That is what @iamdub was referring to.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

@Doubeleive @OR VietVet @Tonyrodz @iamdub @swathdiver @B-train

Thanks guys. I really appreciate your quick and thoughtful responses to the OP's issue. Just another reason why this Forum ROCKS!

 

[B-train]

Sorry, late to the party here. Currently on vacation in the DR.

Being that you have electric steering as mentioned by @swathdiver and others that have chimed in about grounds etc. I will agree with all thus far. Interesting that you experienced more issues AFTER some cleaning and torquing. Do you live in the rust belt? What is the overall rust condition of the vehicle. How many miles? (If I missed that I'm sorry)

Here's my suggestions:

1. It acts up over bumps or in turns (correct?) Which way turning- L or R? Or both?
2. I feel that you either have a bad/corroded ground, or a power source that is grounding itself with body flex/roll/movement.
3. Have you load tested the battery with both cables removed?
4. When cleaning cables that appear to have corrosion, you need an acid cleaner to dissolve the corrosion in my book. It will change colors if corrosion is present and it will help lead you to potential problems under the sheathing.
5. I would start at the battery and check the connections for corrosion and tightness. Look at connectors that power heavy loads (ie: electric PS). As @OR VietVet stated, sometimes the act of removing and reinserting the connector pins will help solve an issue.
6. Don't make TONS of big changes at once. Try some and document. This will help narrow down where you need to ultimately focus when you find an improvement by testing/inspecting.
7. My last suggestion would be to pull up the master fuse box and just give it a once over to see if fuses are seated/tight. Look for corrosion or arcing. You could also disconnect the battery and then re-seat the large connectors.

I hope this helps. Electric gremlins are the worst.....

 

[OR VietVet]

This test is a recommendation by a member of another forum I belong to for my girl's 2002 TrailBlazer. Very informative about doing a "pin drag test" on the individual terminals in the fuse/relay box:

"A pin drag test involves using either a tool made for the purpose or some other item that is the same profile (thickness, width, and sufficient length to insert) as the relay or fuse etc. whose socket your are testing.


The idea is to insert the tool into ONE terminal socket at a time and use your feel for assessing that there is sufficient drag to indicate the socket has not worn or been damaged to the point it no longer is making reliable electrical and mechanical connection to the inserted fuse or relay. Easier to tell when isolating each individual terminal socket."

 

[jerwilso]

Sorry, late to the party here. Currently on vacation in the DR.

Being that you have electric steering as mentioned by @swathdiver and others that have chimed in about grounds etc. I will agree with all thus far. Interesting that you experienced more issues AFTER some cleaning and torquing. Do you live in the rust belt? What is the overall rust condition of the vehicle. How many miles? (If I missed that I'm sorry)

Here's my suggestions:

1. It acts up over bumps or in turns (correct?) Which way turning- L or R? Or both?
2. I feel that you either have a bad/corroded ground, or a power source that is grounding itself with body flex/roll/movement.
3. Have you load tested the battery with both cables removed?
4. When cleaning cables that appear to have corrosion, you need an acid cleaner to dissolve the corrosion in my book. It will change colors if corrosion is present and it will help lead you to potential problems under the sheathing.
5. I would start at the battery and check the connections for corrosion and tightness. Look at connectors that power heavy loads (ie: electric PS). As @OR VietVet stated, sometimes the act of removing and reinserting the connector pins will help solve an issue.
6. Don't make TONS of big changes at once. Try some and document. This will help narrow down where you need to ultimately focus when you find an improvement by testing/inspecting.
7. My last suggestion would be to pull up the master fuse box and just give it a once over to see if fuses are seated/tight. Look for corrosion or arcing. You could also disconnect the battery and then re-seat the large connectors.

I hope this helps. Electric gremlins are the worst.....

I live in Jacksonville fl. I have 99567 miles on it. I've been documenting changes after every attempt. It's weird that once I seem to fix 1 issue it causes another.
1. It doesn't overcorrect anymore when turning. Nor does it goes off when hitting bumps.
2. I was told that it could be the grounding with body movement. But where would I place the new ground.
What's happening as of 8am today is electronic cluster shutting off at random times, engine stall lights goes off also. When these things goes off there is a power surge then brief power loss.
I'm taking it to a mechanic after work because I cannot drive it like this. I hope they will do more than hook it up to the coder reader like the other dealers did.
Thank you guys for all of the help.

 

[OR VietVet]

I live in Jacksonville fl. I have 99567 miles on it. I've been documenting changes after every attempt. It's weird that once I seem to fix 1 issue it causes another.
1. It doesn't overcorrect anymore when turning. Nor does it goes off when hitting bumps.
2. I was told that it could be the grounding with body movement. But where would I place the new ground.
What's happening as of 8am today is electronic cluster shutting off at random times, engine stall lights goes off also. When these things goes off there is a power surge then brief power loss.
I'm taking it to a mechanic after work because I cannot drive it like this. I hope they will do more than hook it up to the coder reader like the other dealers did.
Thank you guys for all of the help.

Be prepared to hear from the mechanic/technician, they will still look for codes and should look for current and history codes. If they just have a little hand held code reader, they likely cannot check history codes but it may be able to.

Also, be aware that there will likely be a set charge for an initial search for the problem and will be a minimum fee. After that there will likely be "by the hour" charges. Sometimes the repair is done at the same time as the diagnostics, simply by process of elimination. You will be likely told that there is no guarantee of repair or finding the problem and will still have a charge for their time. As an "at home" tech myself, this is how I handle the same situation.

Hopefully he/she has a software program that can do a search of your list of problems and will come up with other pattern failures, like how TSB's are created.

 

[jerwilso]

Be prepared to hear from the mechanic/technician, they will still look for codes and should look for current and history codes. If they just have a little hand held code reader, they likely cannot check history codes but it may be able to.

Also, be aware that there will likely be a set charge for an initial search for the problem and will be a minimum fee. After that there will likely be "by the hour" charges. Sometimes the repair is done at the same time as the diagnostics, simply by process of elimination. You will be likely told that there is no guarantee of repair or finding the problem and will still have a charge for their time. As an "at home" tech myself, this is how I handle the same situation.

Hopefully he/she has a software program that can do a search of your list of problems and will come up with other pattern failures, like how TSB's are created.

Funny / Not funny. But I've Bern to 2 different places. 1st was the cadillac dealer they found nothing cost $200. Then went to an auto shop that specializes in auto electronics they found nothing. Funny thing was as soon as I left each of these places my car showed all the symptoms that I described to them. I'm at a loss. I will take it to another place today. Not Funny, throwing money at people for doing nothing

 

[OR VietVet]

Funny / Not funny. But I've Bern to 2 different places. 1st was the cadillac dealer they found nothing cost $200. Then went to an auto shop that specializes in auto electronics they found nothing. Funny thing was as soon as I left each of these places my car showed all the symptoms that I described to them. I'm at a loss. I will take it to another place today. Not Funny, throwing money at people for doing nothing

Incorrect, they are doing something, just not what corrects the problem or the truck does not mess up in front of them or when test equipment is attached. That is the problem with intermittent concerns, they are erratic as to when they show up and for how long. This is exactly why I ask so many questions when I take on something like this. If the problem only "happens on a third Sunday, between 10 and 2 o'clock, when turning left over railroad tracks and is raining", I want to know that. That is why, when I personally get a call about any problem that a customer wants me to look at, I tell them that before they bring it in and they will be driving again before get here, "write down what you remember about the problem and whatever happens in any driving before dropping off here". I don't want them to forget something while in front of me asking them questions.

Because of your statement, if I was a tech and knew you said that, I would be hesitant to take the job on. You are on the 1st step of bad mouthing a tech that you had previous history with, simply because the problem was not found.

 

[Doubeleive]

Funny / Not funny. But I've Bern to 2 different places. 1st was the cadillac dealer they found nothing cost $200. Then went to an auto shop that specializes in auto electronics they found nothing. Funny thing was as soon as I left each of these places my car showed all the symptoms that I described to them. I'm at a loss. I will take it to another place today. Not Funny, throwing money at people for doing nothing

not trying to send you down a rabbit hole.. but I had a "similar" inexplicable problem on my 18
symptoms were: cluster would shut off & on random, radio would shut off & random, service brake control, service xxxxx would pop up in the DIC
truck ran fine otherwise.
after litteraly trying everything including the dealer replacing the cluster (under waranty)
it turned out my alternator was throwing 850ma voltage spikes (only visible with a oscilliscope) this made the bcm think that the ignition was being shut off & on.
took the GM tech 2hours with the scope to find it.
just goes to show you that a tiny bit of voltage/ground can throw these things for a loop

it could be a pinched harness, you could look for the tsb's that are out there related to it they show locations and pictures of what to look for, also there is a tsb out there for the bcm ground which is at the inside bottom left corner of the window at the bottom of the pillar, apparently some have extra "glue" around the ground preventing contact, this was reported on the pickups, but might be worth a look
you have to remove the pillar covers and pull up the front dash cover piece to even look at it.

 

[jerwilso]

Incorrect, they are doing something, just not what corrects the problem or the truck does not mess up in front of them or when test equipment is attached. That is the problem with intermittent concerns, they are erratic as to when they show up and for how long. This is exactly why I ask so many questions when I take on something like this. If the problem only "happens on a third Sunday, between 10 and 2 o'clock, when turning left over railroad tracks and is raining", I want to know that. That is why, when I personally get a call about any problem that a customer wants me to look at, I tell them that before they bring it in and they will be driving again before get here, "write down what you remember about the problem and whatever happens in any driving before dropping off here". I don't want them to forget something while in front of me asking them questions.

Because of your statement, if I was a tech and knew you said that, I would be hesitant to take the job on. You are on the 1st step of bad mouthing a tech that you had previous history with, simply because the problem was not found.

Would never bad mouth a tech. I am very thorough and clear when speaking with them. The level of frustration is high for me in this matter. I keep notes on what I say and results of what happens as a result.
I'm here to get input and so far I've been getting a lot of great information from people who have nothing to gain from helping. Which I hold in the highest regard.
Thank you for your input it's valued amd duly noted

 

[OR VietVet]

Would never bad mouth a tech. I am very thorough and clear when speaking with them. The level of frustration is high for me in this matter. I keep notes on what I say and results of what happens as a result.
I'm here to get input and so far I've been getting a lot of great information from people who have nothing to gain from helping. Which I hold in the highest regard.
Thank you for your input it's valued amd duly noted

"throwing money at people for doing nothing", IMO, sounds like it. Perhaps you didn't mean to say it that way and I am, as a retired tech, by no means "thin skinned" and "looking for a safe room". It was a statement made in the heat of the moment. You have spent money and gotten nowhere YET. A tech's time has to be paid for, for good or bad, except blatant dishonesty. The techs are doing "something", it's the fault of the truck for not failing long enough to be traced and problem found.

I know you did not mean it, just be aware that besides myself, there are likely techs on here that would feel as bad as I would if I could not duplicate the problem or find the problem. In those instances, I usually apologize and cut my diagnostic time/charges in half.

By the way, did the dealer tech check for TSB's about this problem? They should have. Even if they tell you they did and still found none. Did they mention TSB's?

 

[OR VietVet]

The beauty of what I do now is that I don't have to work on what I don't want to work on. In a thread I have going in the "garage" section, I have a story there about a recent problem with a pushy privileged youngster, that thought he was gonna tell me what I should do for free. It did not go the way he expected.

 

[jerwilso]

"throwing money at people for doing nothing", IMO, sounds like it. Perhaps you didn't mean to say it that way and I am, as a retired tech, by no means "thin skinned" and "looking for a safe room". It was a statement made in the heat of the moment. You have spent money and gotten nowhere YET. A tech's time has to be paid for, for good or bad, except blatant dishonesty. The techs are doing "something", it's the fault of the truck for not failing long enough to be traced and problem found.

I know you did not mean it, just be aware that besides myself, there are likely techs on here that would feel as bad as I would if I could not duplicate the problem or find the problem. In those instances, I usually apologize and cut my diagnostic time/charges in half.

By the way, did the dealer tech check for TSB's about this problem? They should have. Even if they tell you they did and still found none. Did they mention TSB's?

They didn't mention TSB. But since I saw this i looked it up and found 3. They all mention the issues im having. I'll go through it and do what it says. Hopefully this will help.
No disrespect intended. If someone took it the wrong way.
Attached are the TSB's I found as a result of your reply.

 

[OR VietVet]

There you go. Great. Now, if you go thru the TSB's or have the new tech go thru them and the problem gets fixed, even better. I would print these TSB's out for the new tech, in case they cannot pull up. I would also, if the TSB's fix it, take the info back to the dealer and ask why you could find the TSB's and they could not. I guarantee you that if it was me confronting them, they would pay me $200 to get me out of there. This TSB search and find, pisses me off even more about Stealerships.

 

[jerwilso]

"throwing money at people for doing nothing", IMO, sounds like it. Perhaps you didn't mean to say it that way and I am, as a retired tech, by no means "thin skinned" and "looking for a safe room". It was a statement made in the heat of the moment. You have spent money and gotten nowhere YET. A tech's time has to be paid for, for good or bad, except blatant dishonesty. The techs are doing "something", it's the fault of the truck for not failing long enough to be traced and problem found.

I know you did not mean it, just be aware that besides myself, there are likely techs on here that would feel as bad as I would if I could not duplicate the problem or find the problem. In those instances, I usually apologize and cut my diagnostic time/charges in half.

By the way, did the dealer tech check for TSB's about this problem? They should have. Even if they tell you they did and still found none. Did they mention TSB's?

Would it be over the top if I brought the TSB I found to the dealer?

There you go. Great. Now, if you go thru the TSB's or have the new tech go thru them and the problem gets fixed, even better. I would print these TSB's out for the new tech, in case they cannot pull up. I would also, if the TSB's fix it, take the info back to the dealer and ask why you could find the TSB's and they could not. I guarantee you that if it was me confronting them, they would pay me $200 to get me out of there. This TSB search and find, pisses me off even more about Stealerships.

Was about to ask if taking the TSB to them would make it seem like I'm calling them out.

 

[B-train]

They didn't mention TSB. But since I saw this i looked it up and found 3. They all mention the issues im having. I'll go through it and do what it says. Hopefully this will help.
No disrespect intended. If someone took it the wrong way.
Attached are the TSB's I found as a result of your reply.

Good find for sure. It basically sums up what we have collectively said here. Awesome shout-out to @Doubeleive for having a similar issue and tying it all together. I had thought alternator initial, but shrugged it off due to the age of the truck and the good track record they generally have.

Don't feel bad at all foe bringing it to their attention. THEY HAVE ALL THE INFO FOR FREE at their fingertips. I find it funny when techs (used to be one) can't look past the clock to find more info.

 

[Doubeleive]

Would it be over the top if I brought the TSB I found to the dealer?

Was about to ask if taking the TSB to them would make it seem like I'm calling them out.

no but sometimes if the vin is not on the tsb they won't bother to check those

 

[Doubeleive]

I should re-itterate they will if you ask them too check them, but if you didn't mention them previously and the vin was not on the tsb then they probably didn't even see the tsb

 

[jerwilso]

no but sometimes if the vin is not on the tsb they won't bother to check those

It was the heat shield hitting the touching the solenoid b+ battery cable. When I went under the truck the heat shield sparked then I disconnected the negative and just pulled it off. There was no screw holding it in place. Took pictures. Thank you guys for all of your help.

 

[jerwilso]

Good find for sure. It basically sums up what we have collectively said here. Awesome shout-out to @Doubeleive for having a similar issue and tying it all together. I had thought alternator initial, but shrugged it off due to the age of the truck and the good track record they generally have.

Don't feel bad at all foe bringing it to their attention. THEY HAVE ALL THE INFO FOR FREE at their fingertips. I find it funny when techs (used to be one) can't look past the clock to find more info.

Found the issue. Heat shield touching the solenoid. Thank you guys.