How do you guys like the 15-20's?

[RST Dana]

16 LT, 17 LT and now 20 RST

 

[Dewally]

I’m not so sure. OEMs are being forced into electric and other alternative fuel power trains by regulators in other countries. Several OEMs have announced that they will be totally electrified by 2030 while others have indicated that they will have a substantial portion of their fleet electrified. The bottom line is that China and the EU and Great Britain are all pushing ahead.

As far as battery costs, I believe that they will come down in price as we get to the out years. Hybrid batteries now cost a few thousand to a max of $6K to replace if out of the 8 year 100K mile warranty. This is far cheaper than when I bought my first hybrid 11 years ago. That car required a battery replacement out the gate and the warranty cost was almost $9K.

As I said above, I am not sure what I am ultimately going to do. I like my Suburban a lot. I just don‘t know if I want to replace it with a Lightning or a Silverado EV. And as far as tossing a rock in my pond, I don’t think so. You have your opinion and I respect that. You also provide a potentially valid point regarding cost and what the life expectancy will be.

Wrap your head around this: Storing the energy equivalent of one barrel of oil, which weighs 300 pounds and costs $81.00 requires 20,000 pounds of EV batteries that cost $200,000. Now imagine how much mining we have to do in order make 20,000 pounds of battery. #GreenEnergy

Many of you think "green energy" drops out of a unicorns ass. It doesn't, it takes a great deal of mining. If it wasn't for TRECs, RECs, ROCs or simply Green Certificates (your tax dollars) "green" would never be made. It's a scam to steal your money. Not save the planet.

Oh and all this ignores that you’ve got to get that energy from somewhere which will cost something and have an additional environmental impact.

Fix it and it’s still not a lot better, that battery can take maybe a 1,000 charges before it starts to seriously deteriorate, so that’s $80k of oil or 300k lbs. vs those batteries take 10 million lbs of earth mined to create. Li-ion batteries just can’t get you to green goals.

 

[91RS]

Wrap your head around this: Storing the energy equivalent of one barrel of oil, which weighs 300 pounds and costs $81.00 requires 20,000 pounds of EV batteries that cost $200,000. Now imagine how much mining we have to do in order make 20,000 pounds of battery. #GreenEnergy

Many of you think "green energy" drops out of a unicorns ass. It doesn't, it takes a great deal of mining. If it wasn't for TRECs, RECs, ROCs or simply Green Certificates (your tax dollars) "green" would never be made. It's a scam to steal your money. Not save the planet.

Oh and all this ignores that you’ve got to get that energy from somewhere which will cost something and have an additional environmental impact.

Fix it and it’s still not a lot better, that battery can take maybe a 1,000 charges before it starts to seriously deteriorate, so that’s $80k of oil or 300k lbs. vs those batteries take 10 million lbs of earth mined to create. Li-ion batteries just can’t get you to green goals.

I don't think we should mindlessly trash this planet, but forcing EV's on us is NOT the solution to save the planet. It's the solution to big wigs "needing" even more money. They've been working for years to get people in the mindset of "needing" a new car every 3-5 years instead of taking care of and fixing what they have and now this is the next step to make it where you can't even fix your own car if you want to. Just like Apple changing from lighting to USB-C. There was literally NO reason for it except to make all your existing accessories garbage.

 

[Wwes]

Love mine. Added the big brake package. The corsa exhaust expel film protection. Ceramic coating and hand painted pinstripes .

Looks great, what year and did you buy used? I sold mine just like if and have regretted it

 

[WillCO]

Mine is a 2016 Tahoe LT. I bought it new; it's at about 93K miles now. Upkeep cost has been very acceptable - beyond scheduled maintenance I've only paid for one repair, where some oil gasket started to leak under the front differential, $800 to fix.

Amazingly I am still on my first set of brake rotors and pads at 93K. I am obsessive about gear-based braking in the mountains though.

I'm on the second set of tires, which is more about the tires than the truck. But, I'll tell anyone who will listen than Michelin Defender LTX are the best tires you can buy, as long as you don't need a specialty tire.

I'm not usually this guy, but I have to say that I like the look of this generation more than the new ones. These were no larger than they needed to be given their purpose, and the lines on them are nicely athletic. The new ones, when I find myself next to one on the road, seem 15-20% larger and a bit overweight in the design.

Coming up on 7 years and 100K miles. I'm long since paid for and probably in the golden age of ownership of this thing for a while. As long as it doesn't start to develop recurring issues I'll keep it 2-3 more years.

 

[WillCO]

Wrap your head around this: Storing the energy equivalent of one barrel of oil, which weighs 300 pounds and costs $81.00 requires 20,000 pounds of EV batteries that cost $200,000. Now imagine how much mining we have to do in order make 20,000 pounds of battery. #GreenEnergy

Many of you think "green energy" drops out of a unicorns ass. It doesn't, it takes a great deal of mining. If it wasn't for TRECs, RECs, ROCs or simply Green Certificates (your tax dollars) "green" would never be made. It's a scam to steal your money. Not save the planet.

Oh and all this ignores that you’ve got to get that energy from somewhere which will cost something and have an additional environmental impact.

Fix it and it’s still not a lot better, that battery can take maybe a 1,000 charges before it starts to seriously deteriorate, so that’s $80k of oil or 300k lbs. vs those batteries take 10 million lbs of earth mined to create. Li-ion batteries just can’t get you to green goals.

This is not a forum where anyone can make any progress in rational discussion about electric vehicles. I've tried before.

But. Arguments about electric being less environmentally responsible than ICE are perfunctory. Most that I see are based on supposition or something people pulled from a biased source. Your post uses language like "now imagine..." which is a non-rigorous form of opposition. Let's say I do imagine, and I imagine you're wrong. What then. And "it's a scam to steal your money" is just FUD really. I suppose everything anyone posts on these boards is, like, their opinion, man.

Most of these are a comparison of the efficiency in a totally mature fossil fuel industry against that in a nascent electric industry. In other words, whatever issues may be are problems we can and will solve. Just, a lot of people don't want to. Maybe they are in a situation where the fossil fuel industry provides their livelihood. Maybe they love the way ICE engines sound (I have a Porsche 911, it sure sounds nice). Maybe they just don't like the fact that the world is changing. I get all of that.

If we were on this forum in 1908 (ha), anyone could easily have said "these automobiles are a terrible idea, there aren't nearly enough roads or gas stations."

 

[91RS]

You cannot prove electric cars are truly better for the environment any more than someone else can prove they aren’t. You can take an ICE car and put a sniffer in the tail pipe and read the emissions output. You can’t do that with an electric car because the emissions are elsewhere and spread out over multiple locations and it different depending on where the car came from and where it is now.

Most people who push electric cars are or come off as holier than thou elitists who wouldn’t change their mind even if you did have facts to prove the opposite of what they think and that never leads to productive conversation.

I believe electric cars are much more about changing the lighting connector to USB-C so you keep up the good consumerism and have to buy a new car when you don’t need one. People have already been very well conditioned that they need a brand new car every 3 years and not to bother taking care of it any more so there aren’t any good used cars to buy either. I think it’s all about the money and nothing more.

 

[WillCO]

You cannot prove electric cars are truly better for the environment any more than someone else can prove they aren’t. You can take an ICE car and put a sniffer in the tail pipe and read the emissions output. You can’t do that with an electric car because the emissions are elsewhere and spread out over multiple locations and it different depending on where the car came from and where it is now.

Most people who push electric cars are or come off as holier than thou elitists who wouldn’t change their mind even if you did have facts to prove the opposite of what they think and that never leads to productive conversation.

I believe electric cars are much more about changing the lighting connector to USB-C so you keep up the good consumerism and have to buy a new car when you don’t need one. People have already been very well conditioned that they need a brand new car every 3 years and not to bother taking care of it any more so there aren’t any good used cars to buy either. I think it’s all about the money and nothing more.

Yes, yes. Argument #A-4: EVs are no better than ICEs because the sources of the energy upstream are still dirty.

#1: Fossil fuels as used in ICEs are by far the dirtiest source of energy we use today, except a nuclear reactor if it melts down.

#2: No power grid I'm aware of in the world creates power by burning gasoline. There's coal, which isn't super clean but isn't nearly as bad. That's the bulk of it in 2023.

#3: A fleet of EVs will be ready to accept power, over time, from whatever source we develop. Wind, waves, hydrogen, solar, nuclear, whatever it ends up being.

The other issue people bring up is the battery situation. Are lithium batteries bad for the environment? In a word, yes. We need to improve upon that technology a lot to be able to confidently move away from ICEs. That said, even right now the overall environmental impact of an EV, even with a lithium battery, is objectively seen as lower than an equivalent ICE vehicle over its lifetime. So if we can improve upon the weak points, it gets even better.

Here's a good and very balanced article on this from AAA. I choose this article because based on the source and content I can't envision how anyone would be able to discredit it out of hand. You guys will probably try anyway.

Are Electric Car Batteries Bad for the Environment?

Everyone knows about the clean aspects of electric car batteries, but there are a number of environmentally harmful ones that need to be addressed.

magazine.northeast.aaa.com

 

[AWSMBLU]

Love my 2015 Yukon Denali

 

[91RS]

Yes, yes. Argument #A-4: EVs are no better than ICEs because the sources of the energy upstream are still dirty.

#1: Fossil fuels as used in ICEs are by far the dirtiest source of energy we use today, except a nuclear reactor if it melts down.

#2: No power grid I'm aware of in the world creates power by burning gasoline. There's coal, which isn't super clean but isn't nearly as bad. That's the bulk of it in 2023.

#3: A fleet of EVs will be ready to accept power, over time, from whatever source we develop. Wind, waves, hydrogen, solar, nuclear, whatever it ends up being.

The other issue people bring up is the battery situation. Are lithium batteries bad for the environment? In a word, yes. We need to improve upon that technology a lot to be able to confidently move away from ICEs. That said, even right now the overall environmental impact of an EV, even with a lithium battery, is objectively seen as lower than an equivalent ICE vehicle over its lifetime. So if we can improve upon the weak points, it gets even better.

Here's a good and very balanced article on this from AAA. I choose this article because based on the source and content I can't envision how anyone would be able to discredit it out of hand. You guys will probably try anyway.

Are Electric Car Batteries Bad for the Environment?

Everyone knows about the clean aspects of electric car batteries, but there are a number of environmentally harmful ones that need to be addressed.

magazine.northeast.aaa.com

If you think that was my “argument,” you clearly didn’t read what I said, proving exactly what I said.

 

[WillCO]

If you think that was my “argument,” you clearly didn’t read what I said, proving exactly what I said.

I'll pass on this conversation. Nothing there.

 

[SpyShops212]

Mine is a 2016 Tahoe LT. I bought it new; it's at about 93K miles now. Upkeep cost has been very acceptable - beyond scheduled maintenance I've only paid for one repair, where some oil gasket started to leak under the front differential, $800 to fix.

Amazingly I am still on my first set of brake rotors and pads at 93K. I am obsessive about gear-based braking in the mountains though.

I'm on the second set of tires, which is more about the tires than the truck. But, I'll tell anyone who will listen than Michelin Defender LTX are the best tires you can buy, as long as you don't need a specialty tire.

I'm not usually this guy, but I have to say that I like the look of this generation more than the new ones. These were no larger than they needed to be given their purpose, and the lines on them are nicely athletic. The new ones, when I find myself next to one on the road, seem 15-20% larger and a bit overweight in the design.

Coming up on 7 years and 100K miles. I'm long since paid for and probably in the golden age of ownership of this thing for a while. As long as it doesn't start to develop recurring issues I'll keep it 2-3 more years.


View attachment 394006

View attachment 394007I agree about the size being more bigger like a Expedition or bigger feel. I like this gen because it is more car like driving vs truck like. I think they had to make it bigger for the rear independent suspension.
I have a 2018 Escalade Lux and I love the truck. I rented a 2022 Escalade to see if I could like it or not. I was not impressed. Here is a pictue of my 2018 & 2008 Escalade & 2016 Tahoe LT.

 

[WillCO]

Yep. As big as it was, the previous generation SUV was actually smaller than the competition and gave up points in a few areas by result. You mention the rear suspension, I'd add that the interior storage in the previous trucks is shockingly modest.

The upside was that the old trucks were svelte. They looked like linebackers, where the new ones look like linemen. Expeditions are even worse IMO - very large, square, and blocky.

Goes back a while but I had a similar observation about the Toyota Sequoia in the 2007 model versus the 2008-2021. The 2007 model looked like a bigger 4Runner and had nice lines for a large vehicle. The 2008 looked huge and unwieldy by comparison.

 

[SpyShops212]

The 2007-2014 started to look dated in summer of 2019. The 2011-2014 Premium/Platinum still looks good though with the dual exhaust and body colored parts. When OnStar stopped working then it was time to go. The 2018 and up with the 10 speed is great because it has the same specs as the current model as well as the EcoTec3 6.2. The k2xx is great because it still has the rear axle and probably is going to be the last to have it. The new models is much bigger and feels like you’re driving an Excursion. The prices are insane. If they was to offer 0% interest it may be an option.

 

[91RS]

I do have to say, I think White Diamond does really make the GMT-900 look dated. I think they're still good looking trucks in every other color except gold and the champaign looking colors. I know this is another one of my unpopular opinions, but I think White Diamond is a pretty terrible color. It always looks dirty and dingy, even on the K2 before they changed to the White Frost.

 

[SpyShops212]

Every car has there color!

 

[WillCO]

The car manufacturers do tend to use a certain color to differentiate a model when it's new. There may be an industry term for it - "launch color" or something similar. It's often a garish color that you might not choose normally. I think White Diamond was like that, though it's not garish. But now it comes to signify an old model instead of a new one.

There's a reason why something like 75% of cars sold in the USA are black, grey, or white.

 

[tom3]

I used to like black because black is black. Get a ding or scratch, or some rust repair, get a can of black and good to go. But today's black has many subtle shades and the deal killer for me is that any little scratch really shows. Seems like it has a white under layer or something that makes the scratch really jump out.

 

[Yukon not UConn]

Very happy with our '19. The rare bench seat and 4wd combo.

 

[40Rouge]

My '18 Denali is at 76k miles and is great. Having fun with mods more and more, which keeps my interest and investment. I plan on keeping this for as long as I can and let the ol' truck age gracefully. I looked into the 21+ models, but I'm really not a fan of the styling. Not enough to switch at least.