Feds to roll back Start/Stop Technology

[DuraYuk]

In other words, you are making assumptions based on your preconceived ideas of how we arrived at our opinions, without really attempting to understand why we got here.

That's just a weak MO my guy. On a forum or in life.

Seek first to understand. Always assume the other person has some you can learn.

I'm trying to strike a more cordial tone, to help you see why we are here, but you seem like you already know.

So your post history about what you own isn't enough ? Feel free to enlighten me on your experience with auto start stop and the issues you have experienced that validate your criticism.

Being cordial ? Im not sure i understand. Im not the ones making up terms and labeling people/brigading.

I proved my point. Its fine you have an opinion. It doesn't change the fact that the systems actually do work with real data behind it.

The MO seems to be lots of people think what they 'feel' is based on objectivity when it isn't.

I dont think there's anything left to discuss tbh.

Im not a big ev guy but also understand I'm not the target audience..same with these gm full size suvs. The target audience is younger families so they are appealing to that demographic. Sometimes you age out. Its especially true of any type of technology.

Just look at Cadillac..no way its old audience can get into a lyriq and feel at home. So I get it. Im sure they turned off a huge swath of their old/older customers with their tech focused approach.

Harley is a prime example of a company whose identity cant capture the younger audience and the company is a day away from folding completely because it's base gets older and older and they don't appeal to the main motorcycle demographic.

You need to find where the money is at and appeal to that base.

While I'm not afraid of tech and don't subscribe to the latest conspiracies I can totally see how older folks fear it and understand that point of view.

Theres no blame. Just a clash of points of view we are all entitled too.

We can agree to disagree. Nothing personal.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

Subaru puts the savings in your main DIC display. It tells you how much fuel you save by using the feature. While this may be anecdotal, two posters on a different forum claim that the savings are infinitesimal. One guy said that he saved three gallons of gas in 8,000 miles with the system on. Another one said the DIC displayed .01 of a gallon of fuel for every minute the system was engaged on his Foerster.

 

[dbphillips]

Wasn't there a study that showed most engine wear occurs at start? Sure, there isn't as much time for oil to drain down to the pan as overnight, but it definitely is less oil than if it keeps idling... Also, for those of us with turbos, oil coking due to heat soak is not a good thing...

 

[Marky Dissod]

Wasn't there a study that showed most engine wear occurs at start?

At COLD startup, yes, when all the oil is cold at the bottom of a cold pan.

Also, for those of us with turbos, oil coking due to heat soak is not a good thing ...

Even those with atmospheric engines can suffer from oil coking if the engine was recently worked hard enough.
A.S.S. might be a good idea IFF you're trying to save every single drip of fuel possible,
but that just moves the price somewhere else, like the starter,
or getting cut off in traffic while waiting for the engine to startup,
or making drivers and passengers nervous, or ...

Default should be that the driver should turn A.S.S. ON, IFF they want to use it,
NOT that the driver should have to turn A.S.S. off if they don't.
(Kinda like how privacy on the interweb should work.)

 

[the 18th letter]

I think the tire pressure sensors are one of the most useful features.

I’m a fan of TPS as well. Haven’t had anybody beep the horn at me at a stoplight, and point down in years. If automakers still install auto stop start after the incentives are pulled will be interesting to see. I would guess/figure it get mandated before it gets scrapped tho.

 

[sequoia]

A.S.S. is a result of the rich politicians that are wanting the common folks to pay extra to save the environment by reduced emissions. Yet they all have an entourage of gas guzzling vehicles filled with people armed to the hilt everywhere they go, including to the airport so they can unnecessarily fly around the country to push their agenda. It seems to me that they are polluting the environment worse when they do this than they are helping by making us heed what they say and not what they do. I feel it is pretty much a power issue for them as they want full control of the average American citizen.

 

[DuraYuk]

A.S.S. is a result of the rich politicians that are wanting the common folks to pay extra to save the environment by reduced emissions. Yet they all have an entourage of gas guzzling vehicles filled with people armed to the hilt everywhere they go, including to the airport so they can unnecessarily fly around the country to push their agenda. It seems to me that they are polluting the environment worse when they do this than they are helping by making us heed what they say and not what they do. I feel it is pretty much a power issue for them as they want full control of the average American citizen.

+1 conspiracy

Let's just scrap the whole emmisions as a whole. Who needs clean air anyways! Lmao

+2 For full control

+3 that efficiency is an american thing only. No way anyone else cares.

Boom goes the dynamite

 

[ZKWBQD]

Since this really only applies to the most recent vehicles, I thought this was the appropriate section. If it needs to be moved, by all means.

Everyone I know has permanently disabled their start stop technology anyway. In fact, I purchased the gadget that disabled it, and had it in my possession before I received my Tahoe.

 

[2024 White Tahoe]

6L80, 8L90, 10L80 are better at idling than 4L60 / 4L80 ever could be
(newer electronic transmissions are basically in neutral @ idle)
most cars have had electrical power steering & AC for about a decade,
benefits of AutoStopStart - A.S.S. - are proportional to idle time, minimal in stop&go traffic.

A.S.S. that restarts the engine upon relaxing of the brake pedal
is far superior to
A.S.S. that restarts the engine upon pressing of the accelerator.
But either way, it is a pain in the A.S.S.

George Carlin smiles ...

You mentioned George Carlin - always one of my favorite comedians. I immediately thought of my favorite Carlin meme and posted it in post #5.

I hope you didn’t think that it was a slam against you? I always laugh when I see that meme and thought you’d like it.

 

[PPV_2018]

lol it’s quite laughable the condescending attitude, it’s a forum.. all we are is one step above Reddit , this isn’t a Fortune 500 board meeting.

Unfortunately the proponents in favor of as/s have yet to provide us with data from their real world experience on how much fuel they have saved by having the feature enabled. Links saying as/s is good, source: auto manufacturer is not sufficient. Seriously, how much fuel and $ have you personally saved by having as/s?

Further convoluting this discussion is the constant straw man arguments. Somehow, not being in favor of as/s means:

-You denounce fuel injection
-You are a conspiracy theroist
-You don’t understand English language
-You hate technology
-You have never owned, driven, rented, or even like the newer model trucks
-and all kinds of total BS that no one can even keep up with this point

Just trolling at this point

 

[Marky Dissod]

A.S.S. is a result of the rich politicians that are wanting the common folks to pay extra to save the environment by reduced emissions.
Yet they all have an entourage of gas guzzling vehicles filled with people armed to the hilt everywhere they go,
including to the airport so they can unnecessarily fly around the country to push their agenda.
It seems to me that they are polluting the environment worse when they do this, than they are helping by making us heed what they say and not what they do.
I feel it is pretty much a power issue for them as they want full control of the average American citizen.

So, A.S.S. is only for the not-rich?
Also, what would the 'A.S.S. equivalent' be for planes?

You mentioned George Carlin - always one of my favorite comedians. I immediately thought of my favorite Carlin meme and posted it in post #5.

I hope you didn’t think that it was a slam against you? I always laugh when I see that meme and thought you’d like it.

He's an all-time favorite comedian precisely because he's among the most IMPORTANT comedians.
He made us laugh while opening our eyes. He spoke heavy truths to get us to lighten up.
That quip you cited can be applied to many responses in threads like this one too.

Ever try Drew Michael?

 

[jerry455]

I have a 2021 Suburban with a 6.2. It just turned 85,000 and does not use oil. I check it at least weekly and it does not change. I bought it at 70,000 and started using 0W30 on advice of a friend who worked with these engines. This generation of trucks does not have AFM, it uses DFM. You don't even notice it dropping cylinders while you are driving it. It gets reasonable fuel economy for a 5,400 lbs. 4WD vehicle. I use the Start/Stop most days but sometimes turn it off. This is the best riding and towing vehicle I have ever owned.

 

[Marky Dissod]

You don't even notice it dropping cylinders while ... driving it.

Likely due to the thicker window glass and extra sound deadening.
Try opening the windows. Once you hear it, you can't unhear it.

 

[Timberone]

Every person I have spoke to hates the shutoff. I purchased a device that keeps the on/off setting. If I was in heavy traffic I might turn it on. Reality is I live in AZ and the AC is on 9 months of the year and cant shut off the engine. Stop forcing things down the throat of buyers.

 

[Marky Dissod]

If I was in heavy traffic I might turn it on.

A.S.S. only makes any sense in dense stop'n'go traffic. The more often the stopping ...

 

[LEsoftballdad]

I tested my system on my way to work this morning. My commute is 26 miles each way, and 21 miles are on a limited-access highway, so the a.s.s. The system is useless to me there. I encounter six traffic lights along the route that might require a complete stop. I discount ones where I can make a right on red since I am not stopped long enough for the system to engage for any meaningful time. I also don't include stop signs since the system won't engage with them. Every day will be different based on the timing of the traffic lights, but my engine shut off for a total of 7 seconds today. There is no fuel savings from that short of a stop.

If I were a city driver, maybe it would account for more savings, but even then, I doubt it helps. My Duramax averages 23.9 MPG on my commute and daily driving (it gets much better on trips), so even if you assume a 4% increase in MPG using the Start/Stop system, it would save me very little fuel. And 4% is overly optimistic. It's probably closer to 1%, if that, especially given my commute.

15,000/23.9 = 627.6
15,000/24.14 = 621.38

That saves me 6.22 gallons of diesel, a whopping $21.15 in my pocket! If I own my vehicle for 10 years, I will save $211.48. I can assure you, the cost of the system is higher than the savings I would achieve by using it every day.

 

[DuraYuk]

I tested my system on my way to work this morning. My commute is 26 miles each way, and 21 miles are on a limited-access highway, so the a.s.s. The system is useless to me there. I encounter six traffic lights along the route that might require a complete stop. I discount ones where I can make a right on red since I am not stopped long enough for the system to engage for any meaningful time. I also don't include stop signs since the system won't engage with them. Every day will be different based on the timing of the traffic lights, but my engine shut off for a total of 7 seconds today. There is no fuel savings from that short of a stop.

If I were a city driver, maybe it would account for more savings, but even then, I doubt it helps. My Duramax averages 23.9 MPG on my commute and daily driving (it gets much better on trips), so even if you assume a 4% increase in MPG using the Start/Stop system, it would save me very little fuel. And 4% is overly optimistic. It's probably closer to 1%, if that, especially given my commute.

15,000/23.9 = 627.6
15,000/24.14 = 621.38

That saves me 6.22 gallons of diesel, a whopping $21.15 in my pocket! If I own my vehicle for 10 years, I will save $211.48. I can assure you, the cost of the system is higher than the savings I would achieve by using it every day.

That's crazy but expected. The system isnt designed just for you. Everyone's trips are different. The average savings was anywhere from 10% to 26%. That's the average.

Auto start stop is geared toward the urban/city environment where stops are more common.

 

[OBSandaNNBS]

I have a 2021 Suburban with a 6.2. It just turned 85,000 and does not use oil. I check it at least weekly and it does not change. I bought it at 70,000 and started using 0W30 on advice of a friend who worked with these engines. This generation of trucks does not have AFM, it uses DFM. You don't even notice it dropping cylinders while you are driving it. It gets reasonable fuel economy for a 5,400 lbs. 4WD vehicle. I use the Start/Stop most days but sometimes turn it off. This is the best riding and towing vehicle I have ever owned.

I'm glad you highlighted that AFM and DFM are different.
Namely because AFM sucked so they had to improve it. I guess they "have" to try but you'd think they'd be more cautious.
So what's next, DSS?

85,000 isn't a lot for a truck IMO. Still inside the original powertrain warranty (I think)?

Everything is designed to get out of the warranty period!

 

[OBSandaNNBS]

lol it’s quite laughable the condescending attitude, it’s a forum.. all we are is one step above Reddit , this isn’t a Fortune 500 board meeting.

Unfortunately the proponents in favor of as/s have yet to provide us with data from their real world experience on how much fuel they have saved by having the feature enabled. Links saying as/s is good, source: auto manufacturer is not sufficient. Seriously, how much fuel and $ have you personally saved by having as/s?

Further convoluting this discussion is the constant straw man arguments. Somehow, not being in favor of as/s means:

-You denounce fuel injection
-You are a conspiracy theroist
-You don’t understand English language
-You hate technology
-You have never owned, driven, rented, or even like the newer model trucks
-and all kinds of total BS that no one can even keep up with this point

Just trolling at this point

^^^^^^This^^^^^^^

You summed that side of the thread up very well sir.

I called him on trolling, even congratulated him on punking me. I admired his work for a minute. But apparently he's not trolling? Oh, or maybe he's really good at it!

Keeps saying "saves gas, saves gas, saves gas"
Which no one is denying.

He must be trolling.



Right?

 

[OBSandaNNBS]

Every person I have spoke to hates the shutoff. I purchased a device that keeps the on/off setting. If I was in heavy traffic I might turn it on. Reality is I live in AZ and the AC is on 9 months of the year and cant shut off the engine. Stop forcing things down the throat of buyers.

I don't think this is actually about saving anything. It's about, "Look, we can make you do this ridiculous boolshlaka and even feed you a line to make you believe it's making a difference."

Say the elite globalist illuminati at the WEF.
Sorry had to throw that one in there to prove I'm a conspiracy nutjob