Brake Buying advice

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Scottydoggs

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these R1 brakes tend to like the heat. never felt em fade out. only during the bed in procedure. and r1 has you beat the tar out of them poor pads and rotors, says if you see and smell smoke,,,, your doing it right lol im ad-libbing, but it does say its normal.
 

CountryBoy19

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I'm using Raybestos EHT3 (Enhanced Hybrid Technology) pads and Raybestos corrosion coated rotors along with Raybestos new-manufacture Optical Calipers w/ a lifetime warranty. So far I'm happy. I did notice a small bit of squeal the other day but I think it was a weather thing because that's the only time I've heard it.

That being said, bedding brakes is unnecessary on "daily driver" brakes. Yes, you can get slightly better performance out of semi-metallic brakes if you properly bed them, but that performance is unnecessary in most applications except track use. The reality of it is, on clean dry pavement I can likely break my front wheels loose if I put the pedal to the floor (I also have the hydroboost brakes which makes a little difference as well). IE, roadway traction is the limiting factor of stopping in most cases, not braking power.
 

CountryBoy19

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I disagree. Bedding in is an integral part of the installation process.
That's why we see the OEMs and dealers out there bedding brakes after they're installed right?

There is ZERO value to bedding ceramics so forget about that from the start; ceramic pad material doesn't transfer to the rotors like semi-met does.

Never mind the fact that many brake manufacturers only offer bedding directions for their high performance (track use) brakes...

IMHO, many on this forum have an obsession with performance brakes that will never perform to their design bc they'll never see track use. They'll never be paired with performance tires and performance driving surfaces that can take advantage of the added braking power. Most of them install them bc they think "more brakes, more better", without any real understanding of brakes. More expensive=better right? Sure, but if your tires can't hold traction at the higher brake power then any additional brake power is wasted. That may be an unpopular opinion bc it means you wasted money on brakes, but it's the unfortunate truth.

Don't get me started on drilled & slotted rotors. Most that spend $$$$ on them have no idea what the pros & cons of them are. They just know they sound fancy, look cool, and cost more so they must work better...
 

SnowDrifter

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You're pushing a straw man pretty hard associating a bed in process with performance brakes then saying performance parts don't offer a street benefit, therefore bed in is of no use. Can't say I appreciate that.

Can't speak to OEMs. But every dealer I've seen has some sort of bedding process here. As do indy shops.

The process is as much for an even deposition of material as it is checking the work was done properly and verifying quality of parts. Every time I do brakes, whether it be for myself someone else's car, I take it for a test drive and beat the piss out of them. I'll hand over they keys once I'm satisfied everything works properly. Last thing I need is a call that someone ended up dead because pad material separated or something. Looking at you oh-oh-oh-ohshittyautoparts. Wouldn't have found that without a thorough test drive, or bed-in, as it's commonly referred to.
 

CountryBoy19

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You're pushing a straw man pretty hard associating a bed in process with performance brakes then saying performance parts don't offer a street benefit, therefore bed in is of no use. Can't say I appreciate that.
Straw man? I'm just pointing out the unpopular facts. Justify your expensive brakes all you want. But unless you're running performance tires and driving on perfect pavement your tires will lose traction long before you reach the limitations of normal quality brakes (we're not talking auto-store discount brakes here). Very few people have EVER put their brakes all the way to the floor. They may think they have but they likely didn't.

Can't speak to OEMs. But every dealer I've seen has some sort of bedding process here. As do indy shops.

The process is as much for an even deposition of material as it is checking the work was done properly and verifying quality of parts. Every time I do brakes, whether it be for myself someone else's car, I take it for a test drive and beat the piss out of them. I'll hand over they keys once I'm satisfied everything works properly. Last thing I need is a call that someone ended up dead because pad material separated or something. Looking at you oh-oh-oh-ohshittyautoparts. Wouldn't have found that without a thorough test drive, or bed-in, as it's commonly referred to.
A test drive to ensure functionality is one thing, but I doubt the motivation for doing so is to "bed the brakes". It's to reduce liability by ensuring proper function.

Like I said, if you're installing ceramic there is no such thing as bedding. Ceramic doesn't even transfer to the rotors like semi-met does. And IMHO, only place semi-met belongs is on the wheels of people that like the cheap auto-store brakes or those that are buying performance brakes. Semi-met performs a bit high than ceramic but makes a dusty mess doing so. I don't care for the dusty mess so I went quality ceramic on my brakes. They stop better than the OEM brakes and I can break traction with them on dry pavement. I don't need high-end performance brakes.

That being said, the theory behind bedding brakes: Hard stops that get the rotor and pad hot transfers semi-met pad material to the surface of the rotor. The coefficient of friction between this glazed coating and the pad is slightly higher than the coefficient of friction between the pad and bare cast-iron. So you get slightly better brake performance. Why only slightly better? Well, this glaze only partially covers the rotor, the vast majority of the rotor is still exposed cast iron. If the pad formed a perfect glaze over the rotor then the cast iron would never be exposed to the pad and would therefore never wear, yet we see wear on rotors with semi-met pads still don't we? So this "glaze" can only work where it is, and that is in microscopically scattered "shotgun pattern" across the rotors surface.

Don't take this from me, look at brake manufacturers and what they say. I'm just being realistic. The truth is, stopping your vehicle can only happen as quickly as the weakest link will allow. On OE brakes the brake pad is normally the limiting factor on dry pavement but it's closely balanced with the friction of the tire on the road. That's why when you see them doing stopping distance tests the tires chirp a bit as the vehicle comes to a stop. In this case adding more braking power just makes the ABS work harder, lengthening stopping distance. I don't know how else to explain this...

I will say that people running oversize tires could likely benefit from performance brakes because of the torque difference due to the larger tires. However, in many cases it doesn't take much more brake to accomplish the task and it can ofter be accomplished by choosing a better pad material. That pad material still may not benefit from bedding...
 

RST Dana

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Straw man? I'm just pointing out the unpopular facts. Justify your expensive brakes all you want. But unless you're running performance tires and driving on perfect pavement your tires will lose traction long before you reach the limitations of normal quality brakes (we're not talking auto-store discount brakes here). Very few people have EVER put their brakes all the way to the floor. They may think they have but they likely didn't.

Can't speak to OEMs. But every dealer I've seen has some sort of bedding process here. As do indy shops.


A test drive to ensure functionality is one thing, but I doubt the motivation for doing so is to "bed the brakes". It's to reduce liability by ensuring proper function.

Like I said, if you're installing ceramic there is no such thing as bedding. Ceramic doesn't even transfer to the rotors like semi-met does. And IMHO, only place semi-met belongs is on the wheels of people that like the cheap auto-store brakes or those that are buying performance brakes. Semi-met performs a bit high than ceramic but makes a dusty mess doing so. I don't care for the dusty mess so I went quality ceramic on my brakes. They stop better than the OEM brakes and I can break traction with them on dry pavement. I don't need high-end performance brakes.

That being said, the theory behind bedding brakes: Hard stops that get the rotor and pad hot transfers semi-met pad material to the surface of the rotor. The coefficient of friction between this glazed coating and the pad is slightly higher than the coefficient of friction between the pad and bare cast-iron. So you get slightly better brake performance. Why only slightly better? Well, this glaze only partially covers the rotor, the vast majority of the rotor is still exposed cast iron. If the pad formed a perfect glaze over the rotor then the cast iron would never be exposed to the pad and would therefore never wear, yet we see wear on rotors with semi-met pads still don't we? So this "glaze" can only work where it is, and that is in microscopically scattered "shotgun pattern" across the rotors surface.

Don't take this from me, look at brake manufacturers and what they say. I'm just being realistic. The truth is, stopping your vehicle can only happen as quickly as the weakest link will allow. On OE brakes the brake pad is normally the limiting factor on dry pavement but it's closely balanced with the friction of the tire on the road. That's why when you see them doing stopping distance tests the tires chirp a bit as the vehicle comes to a stop. In this case adding more braking power just makes the ABS work harder, lengthening stopping distance. I don't know how else to explain this...

I will say that people running oversize tires could likely benefit from performance brakes because of the torque difference due to the larger tires. However, in many cases it doesn't take much more brake to accomplish the task and it can ofter be accomplished by choosing a better pad material. That pad material still may not benefit from bedding...
 
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ladorn45

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Hey Guys,

I appreciate the passion. I really do but my goal was not to start a brake war lol. Everything everyone here has said has been very insightful. I never worried about what brakes to get cause the mechanic always gave me a price and that was that. Now that I am saving money on labor and doing it myself i have the choice on what parts and the extra cash to spend on better pads if justified. The style of driving i do is mainly long distance highway driving, but there is alot of stop and go braking to get out of the city area to get to these highways. Also the occasional slamming the brakes hard cause of some jack ass that realized he missed his exit or just driving like an ****** (unfortunately this happens more then i would like). That being said I do put some strain on my rotors and brakes. As of right now I had all new brakes and rotors and calipers done about 3 years ago and only put about 10k miles on them. Now I am hearing a grinding noise coming from my rear brakes that comes and goes but hear it more after a longer drive. Obviously need to inspect this and see what it is but wanted to be prepared so when time comes to get new brakes and rotors I can get something that works best for the money. I am okay paying a little more if that means I can get rotors and brakes that might be considered overkill for my overall driving but that one instant where it can come to play and save me or my loved ones from harm. Then to me it is worth the extra cash. That is one of the reason why i have no problem paying more for crucial parts like brakes and tires.
 

Scottydoggs

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these rear calipers got a rep for sticking and not letting the pads go free. 10,000 miles is pretty quick to wear out pads.

id inspect the rear calipers before buying new parts, ( this mean take them off push the pistons back in, see if they go back in smoothly) you might need to rebuild, or replace the calipers as well as rotors and pads.

the e brake work as it should? they can fall apart and drag, theres a small drum brake in the middle of the rear rotor how the e brake works. need to remove the rotor to see them.
 

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