Autocross in a 'Burb

[fozzi58]

Just wanted to tell everyone about my experience. Friday I took the Suburban to Autocross school at the Meadowlands (MetLife Stadium). Obviously I was a true oddball since most of the cars were meant or built for this type of driving. Surrounded by Miatas, BMWs, Vettes, and a few Stangs, stood tall the Suburban. I was one of a few people that never autocrossed before but most of the people at the school had only done a handful of events. It was definitely an experience.

The initial concerns from the instructors about this being a possible rollover issue quickly melted away once I started listing the mods and when I rolled through tech inspection. Overall it was a great experience and while I am sure a few people didn't take me seriously, I mostly got a lot of positivity. All the suspension mods I did paid off. Honestly it was the most fun I ever had in the truck.

I rode with an instructor the first heat and was able to drop my track times from 92 seconds the first run to about 71 the 6th. He was so impressed with the truck, that on the 2nd heat he had another instructor ride with me to feel the truck. On the second run, that instructor asked me to drive. WOW - talk about a driver mod. He really pushed the burb to near limits...to the point that he got so overconfident in its abilities he drove over 2 cones in the slalom. My best lap was a tick under 69 seconds. For comparisons sake, there was a Carerra GT running 49s. 20 seconds is a big gap in lap times but I guess I can't complain since the Porche was MADE for that type of driving and the Burb is definitely not.

Overall I plan on doing it again. Might take the TA next time until I can get some better tires or maybe a smaller wheel (20'S might be better with a better tire for AutoX).

What I learned:
Besides the obvious related to AutoX, I learned a big SUV with the right mods can do a lot of what a car can do. My truck is WAY more capable of what I thought I was doing on the street - I am instantly a better driver knowing I can push the truck's limits to avoid hazards or a potential accident if the need arises. I learned I'm a better driver than I thought I was, and I've improved over that from this experience.

I also learned I need a bigger trans cooler; lowering the front with drop spindles vs control arm/spring mods is not the best choice; 24s are NOT a great wheel size for any type of "athletic driving".

Lastly, I need to find a way to put a manual trans in this thing!

Overall, great experience. Tons of fun. Got all my adrenaline out on the track and kept it calm on the streets. I'd def recommend trying it to anyone that's an enthusiast. I'm sure a few of the member here do AutoX, but probably not in their big rigs. I'm sure I wasn't the first, probably won't be the last, but if anyone is interested in building an AutoX full size SUV, I def have some advice to give. Thanks for listening.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7240963422085598506

 

[Doubeleive]

Just wanted to tell everyone about my experience. Friday I took the Suburban to Autocross school at the Meadowlands (MetLife Stadium). Obviously I was a true oddball since most of the cars were meant or built for this type of driving. Surrounded by Miatas, BMWs, Vettes, and a few Stangs, stood tall the Suburban. I was one of a few people that never autocrossed before but most of the people at the school had only done a handful of events. It was definitely an experience.

The initial concerns from the instructors about this being a possible rollover issue quickly melted away once I started listing the mods and when I rolled through tech inspection. Overall it was a great experience and while I am sure a few people didn't take me seriously, I mostly got a lot of positivity. All the suspension mods I did paid off. Honestly it was the most fun I ever had in the truck.

I rode with an instructor the first heat and was able to drop my track times from 92 seconds the first run to about 71 the 6th. He was so impressed with the truck, that on the 2nd heat he had another instructor ride with me to feel the truck. On the second run, that instructor asked me to drive. WOW - talk about a driver mod. He really pushed the burb to near limits...to the point that he got so overconfident in its abilities he drove over 2 cones in the slalom. My best lap was a tick under 69 seconds. For comparisons sake, there was a Carerra GT running 49s. 20 seconds is a big gap in lap times but I guess I can't complain since the Porche was MADE for that type of driving and the Burb is definitely not.

Overall I plan on doing it again. Might take the TA next time until I can get some better tires or maybe a smaller wheel (20'S might be better with a better tire for AutoX).

What I learned:
Besides the obvious related to AutoX, I learned a big SUV with the right mods can do a lot of what a car can do. My truck is WAY more capable of what I thought I was doing on the street - I am instantly a better driver knowing I can push the truck's limits to avoid hazards or a potential accident if the need arises. I learned I'm a better driver than I thought I was, and I've improved over that from this experience.

I also learned I need a bigger trans cooler; lowering the front with drop spindles vs control arm/spring mods is not the best choice; 24s are NOT a great wheel size for any type of "athletic driving".

Lastly, I need to find a way to put a manual trans in this thing!

Overall, great experience. Tons of fun. Got all my adrenaline out on the track and kept it calm on the streets. I'd def recommend trying it to anyone that's an enthusiast. I'm sure a few of the member here do AutoX, but probably not in their big rigs. I'm sure I wasn't the first, probably won't be the last, but if anyone is interested in building an AutoX full size SUV, I def have some advice to give. Thanks for listening.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7240963422085598506

cool
did you have it in drive the whole time?
or more like m3? maybe even m2? (makes a difference)
some halfway decent sport tires can help to
without any trans cooling options then yes doing that will heat it up pretty good, what were your temps?

 

[Bigkevschopshop]

20s or 22s are better suited I think for what your trying to do. But thats bad ass... Id put that truck in manual mode and get your rpm up some more and let it slow you down for later entry.

 

[iamdub]

Just wanted to tell everyone about my experience. Friday I took the Suburban to Autocross school at the Meadowlands (MetLife Stadium). Obviously I was a true oddball since most of the cars were meant or built for this type of driving. Surrounded by Miatas, BMWs, Vettes, and a few Stangs, stood tall the Suburban. I was one of a few people that never autocrossed before but most of the people at the school had only done a handful of events. It was definitely an experience.

The initial concerns from the instructors about this being a possible rollover issue quickly melted away once I started listing the mods and when I rolled through tech inspection. Overall it was a great experience and while I am sure a few people didn't take me seriously, I mostly got a lot of positivity. All the suspension mods I did paid off. Honestly it was the most fun I ever had in the truck.

I rode with an instructor the first heat and was able to drop my track times from 92 seconds the first run to about 71 the 6th. He was so impressed with the truck, that on the 2nd heat he had another instructor ride with me to feel the truck. On the second run, that instructor asked me to drive. WOW - talk about a driver mod. He really pushed the burb to near limits...to the point that he got so overconfident in its abilities he drove over 2 cones in the slalom. My best lap was a tick under 69 seconds. For comparisons sake, there was a Carerra GT running 49s. 20 seconds is a big gap in lap times but I guess I can't complain since the Porche was MADE for that type of driving and the Burb is definitely not.

Overall I plan on doing it again. Might take the TA next time until I can get some better tires or maybe a smaller wheel (20'S might be better with a better tire for AutoX).

What I learned:
Besides the obvious related to AutoX, I learned a big SUV with the right mods can do a lot of what a car can do. My truck is WAY more capable of what I thought I was doing on the street - I am instantly a better driver knowing I can push the truck's limits to avoid hazards or a potential accident if the need arises. I learned I'm a better driver than I thought I was, and I've improved over that from this experience.

I also learned I need a bigger trans cooler; lowering the front with drop spindles vs control arm/spring mods is not the best choice; 24s are NOT a great wheel size for any type of "athletic driving".

Lastly, I need to find a way to put a manual trans in this thing!

Overall, great experience. Tons of fun. Got all my adrenaline out on the track and kept it calm on the streets. I'd def recommend trying it to anyone that's an enthusiast. I'm sure a few of the member here do AutoX, but probably not in their big rigs. I'm sure I wasn't the first, probably won't be the last, but if anyone is interested in building an AutoX full size SUV, I def have some advice to give. Thanks for listening.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7240963422085598506

I don't autoX mine, but I like it to handle well enough that I could if even for simple fun on the streets or control during an emergency maneuver. A sizable drop using sport-tuned struts and shocks, big solid sway bars front and rear (all poly bushed) and decent tires have transformed my lumbering beast. It's still plenty comfortable on the highway. I would LOVE a manual trans. It's more doable than a 6L80E swap (mines a 4L60E).

You have Belltech spindles?


I have Nolathane bars:

Had to modify the panhard mount for sway bar clearance:

Relocated the front frame mounts and made really short end links:

 

[Bigkevschopshop]

I don't autoX mine, but I like it to handle well enough that I could if even for simple fun on the streets or control during an emergency maneuver. A sizable drop using sport-tuned struts and shocks, big solid sway bars front and rear (all poly bushed) and decent tires have transformed my lumbering beast. It's still plenty comfortable on the highway. I would LOVE a manual trans. It's more doable than a 6L80E swap (mines a 4L60E).

You have Belltech spindles?


I have Nolathane bars:

View attachment 401126

View attachment 401127


Had to modify the panhard mount for sway bar clearance:

View attachment 401128


Relocated the front frame mounts and made really short end links:

View attachment 401129

View attachment 401130

MASSIVE BARS... I DIG IT FOR SURE!!!!

 

[fozzi58]

@Doubeleive
Heat 1 I was in D. Trans temps climbed to 248 by the time I got to the 6th run. It was 90+ Friday here and even my intercooler temps were hitting 150 which is not typical. Heat 2 I put the truck in L2. I lost a bit on the launch depending on if I punched it or eased into it but that kept the temps down and only went as high as 212. My best lap was 2nd run of heat 2 so L2 keep the RPMs up a bit more which allowed me to accelerate in the straights better instead of having the rpms bounce everywhere through the gears.

I do have a trans cooler but it was a small cheap amazon job. I may have to look into one of those Morimoto (name?)

@iamdub
I went with Eibachs cause they were one of the fattest bars availabel for our trucks - 38mm front and 32mm back. There are a couple compatible units out there but I would probably pick the Hellwig's since they are adjustable over the Eibachs. I also have those DJM rear sway links which make a big difference over the oem links. Adding in the Spohn components really planted the rear. I mentioned in one of my other threads that the ride is a bit harsher than I was hoping for, but the trade off in rear end control is head and shoulders above what it was with the factory panhard and UCAs and LCAs.

I do have the Belltech 2" drop spindles up front and when Tony NorCal was a sponsor, he set me up with a 2"-4" drop - using the spindles and spring kit. Looking back I would have passed on the Belltech drop spindles and went with the DJM lowing front upper and lower control arms. I think having that adjustability and being able to tune in the geometry better, would improve the handling up front a lot more...plus having poly bushing would be beneficial as well.

Definitely need to look into a set of 20's. The smaller wheel opens up tire options. Trying to find sport class tires for 24's is hard enough. I am lucky mine are V rated so they are good to 149MPH but they a noisy as hell. I want a set of Pirelli or Hankooks for track days.

 

[Doubeleive]

I thought you probably had the 6 speed, with the 4spd blackbear can help you out with a special tune using the tow button.
a deep trans pan and trucool or mori cooler would help, might want to add a push or pull fan those temps are too much
I drive the piss out of mine in hotter temps and never have had temps quite that high but I addressed that issue right away after seeing temps over 220 just driving. (my version of driving anyway) lol
I would flush the trans after that, might not be burnt but better safe than sorry

 

[89Suburban]

Awesome man! Thanks for sharing.

 

[iamdub]

@iamdub
I went with Eibachs cause they were one of the fattest bars availabel for our trucks - 38mm front and 32mm back. There are a couple compatible units out there but I would probably pick the Hellwig's since they are adjustable over the Eibachs. I also have those DJM rear sway links which make a big difference over the oem links. Adding in the Spohn components really planted the rear. I mentioned in one of my other threads that the ride is a bit harsher than I was hoping for, but the trade off in rear end control is head and shoulders above what it was with the factory panhard and UCAs and LCAs.

I still have the [probably original] factory rear control arms. I'm glad to know upgrading those would yield even more notable improvement. Plans are to get new lowers, extend them about 1/2" to center the rear and give the driveshaft more breathing room lost during lowering and box 'em in. I wanna keep OE style bushings for ride comfort. Uppers will be fabbed from tubing and with poly bushings. They'll be adjustable to match the lengthened lowers and to dial in the pinion angle. I have the Spohn panhard already.

I do have the Belltech 2" drop spindles up front and when Tony NorCal was a sponsor, he set me up with a 2"-4" drop - using the spindles and spring kit. Looking back I would have passed on the Belltech drop spindles and went with the DJM lowing front upper and lower control arms. I think having that adjustability and being able to tune in the geometry better, would improve the handling up front a lot more...plus having poly bushing would be beneficial as well.

I don't know if you know already, but the BT spindles are a lot taller than the factory ones. This really affects the control arm geometry. The McGaughy spindle is much closer to, if not the same height (from ball joint surface to ball joint surface) as the factory spindle. They accomplished this by it "only" being a 1.75" of drop instead of the full 2" and by using a stud and nut for the top hub mount instead of the bolt that goes in from the back side. I've broken that stud about three times now. I think twice on the driver side and once on the passenger side. Apparently, the specified torque is extremely critical here. But, it's very difficult to torque the nut on the stud as it's behind the hub flange. I was VERY careful and methodical when I replaced them broken studs the last time and haven't had any problems since. But, if you only want a 2" drop, you can easily get by with any of the other methods and have plenty of adjustability for proper alignment.

 

[MrMonte]

I also learned I need a bigger trans cooler; lowering the front with drop spindles vs control arm/spring mods is not the best choice; 24s are NOT a great wheel size for any type of "athletic driving".

Playing on a track is fun for sure. I go to the Ridge in Washington, it's a 2.5 mile track. Haven't taken my Yukon (6.2L 10 speed) to a track yet but living in Oregon I have many curvy backroads I drive on daily. The combo of massive Hellwig swaybars & the Belltech 2"(spindle) front & 3"(spring) rear drop has transformed the handling. Now I want bigger brakes & better tires.

Curious about the pro/cons on the front drop spindles vs control arm/springs. What tires/rim width were you running?

My 2018 Yukon

 

[fozzi58]

Playing on a track is fun for sure. I go to the Ridge in Washington, it's a 2.5 mile track. Haven't taken my Yukon (6.2L 10 speed) to a track yet but living in Oregon I have many curvy backroads I drive on daily. The combo of massive Hellwig swaybars & the Belltech 2"(spindle) front & 3"(spring) rear drop has transformed the handling. Now I want bigger brakes & better tires.

Curious about the pro/cons on the front drop spindles vs control arm/springs. What tires/rim width were you running?

I had an issue with one of the Wilwood rotors going bad about 2 months after they were installed. I have a thread here about it and it drove me nuts for 14 months until I said Eff it and bought another rotor and pad kit. That fixed the problem. No more issues. Not sure if it was my bad luck or Wilwood quality dropping, but you may want to look at Brembo and Stop Tech for a BBK. I ended up with the Tx6R kit from Wilwood. The calipers are massive and stopping is ridiculously good - night and day between OWM and these. Zero brake fade even after all 6 runs in 90 degree heat. I just have a bad taste in my mouth cause of my experience and Wilwood's lack of interest in trying to help me fix the problem. However, I know 75% of hot rodders use Wilwoods vs the other brands.

Running 2Crave No 47 24x9.5 with a 31+ offset. They stick out just a hair from the fenders and only rub on full lock with 305/35s. I could have gone 295/35 to avoid the rubs, but NJ has massive potholes and didn't want to end up having to have my wheels re-rounded out every 6 months. Also - for the love of God - don't get chrome wheels.

I have Falken tires. Not the best but they were reasonably priced and V rated - hardly anyone makes a W or V rated tire in 24". Best to go with 22's so you have more options on tires (I didn't realize that when I bought the 24s.) 22's will let you get Pirelli, Nitto, Hankook and host of other tire brands that make SUV sport tires, if you want a summer tire, or even the option of high speed tire (ZR rated - 168mph+)

@iamdub
Thinking about going back to the factory spindles and getting the adjustable tubular A-arms from DJM. Depends on how much more autoX i am going to do with this big beast. Prolly won't race again until fall with the exception of hitting a drag strip. I had actually planned on a full rebuild of the 5.3 when she hit 120k cause the Whipple will need an oi change...thought it would be a good time as any to freshen up the bottom end, make it spin faster, up the boost to 10 or 12, and throw on a better cam and heads package.

I haven't hit a 1/4 mile strip yet and need to see what she's got. My '00 TA with bolt ons ran a 13.6, and the truck "feels" faster. Could be cause of the boost hitting but I'd like to know how she does regardless.

 

[iamdub]

I have Falken tires. Not the best but they were reasonably priced and V rated - hardly anyone makes a W or V rated tire in 24". Best to go with 22's so you have more options on tires (I didn't realize that when I bought the 24s.) 22's will let you get Pirelli, Nitto, Hankook and host of other tire brands that make SUV sport tires, if you want a summer tire, or even the option of high speed tire (ZR rated - 168mph+)

@iamdub
Thinking about going back to the factory spindles and getting the adjustable tubular A-arms from DJM. Depends on how much more autoX i am going to do with this big beast. Prolly won't race again until fall with the exception of hitting a drag strip. I had actually planned on a full rebuild of the 5.3 when she hit 120k cause the Whipple will need an oi change...thought it would be a good time as any to freshen up the bottom end, make it spin faster, up the boost to 10 or 12, and throw on a better cam and heads package.

I haven't hit a 1/4 mile strip yet and need to see what she's got. My '00 TA with bolt ons ran a 13.6, and the truck "feels" faster. Could be cause of the boost hitting but I'd like to know how she does regardless.

I kinda wanna put sport/race tires on my declads. You got me thinking, though- I need to check the speed rating of the Scorpion Zeros on my 22s. I've been north of 130 a handful of times

I gained a solid second with my mods, down to 14.6. I'd imagine you'd be close to a second faster than that with a blower. Sounds like a good race! Find a driver and someone to video it!

 

[MrMonte]

I haven't hit a 1/4 mile strip yet and need to see what she's got. My '00 TA with bolt ons ran a 13.6, and the truck "feels" faster. Could be cause of the boost hitting but I'd like to know how she does regardless.

We managed a 12.9 out of our stock 2000 WS6 TA. Haven't taken the Yukon out yet but she pulls pretty hard in AWD with only a tune on the 6.2L 10 speed.

 

[swathdiver]

Anyone remember the guy on here a few years ago who took his PPV to the road course and also had a blast and was thoroughly impressed by its performance? Would be cool to see if he's still racing it and what he's done to make it better.

 

[fozzi58]

We managed a 12.9 out of our stock 2000 WS6 TA. Haven't taken the Yukon out yet but she pulls pretty hard in AWD with only a tune on the 6.2L 10 speed.

Damn that's good. I babied the clutch when I ran mine for the 13.6. I'm not in the habit of abusing the TA. Owned her since '04 and still haven't laid a patch of rubber yet.

I definitely want to build the burb to dip into the 12's.

Been looking in to the 10L90 trans but can't find anything definitive about it bolting to a Gen V 5.3. All the spects show Gen 5 "LT" motors but nothing specific on the 5.3. I know the 10L80 can be built now but I like the paddle shifters available on the 90 - not sure if they can be retrofit to the 80

 

[GranPrix]

View attachment 401130

Your links are as short as mine. By any chance did you notice any sounds coming from down there when ever you turn? After my swaybar install I noticed this when ever I turn going in and out of my driveway or turning in a parking lot.

 

[iamdub]

Your links are as short as mine. By any chance did you notice any sounds coming from down there when ever you turn? After my swaybar install I noticed this when ever I turn going in and out of my driveway or turning in a parking lot.

I haven't noticed any sounds. I also don't recall any instances where I've had it turned a lot while hitting a bump/dip/incline/etc. Most driveways and lot entrances here are mostly flat with the road.

I've had mine exercised pretty hard around some winding roads and never heard anything.

Oh- My sway bar has been relocated back a little for better alignment of the links. Maybe yours are at an angle?

Here's my relocation: https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/growing-up-doesnt-have-to-suck.93510/post-1747041

And the final/current rendition: https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/growing-up-doesnt-have-to-suck.93510/post-1748423

 

[GranPrix]

I haven't noticed any sounds. I also don't recall any instances where I've had it turned a lot while hitting a bump/dip/incline/etc. Most driveways and lot entrances here are mostly flat with the road.

I've had mine exercised pretty hard around some winding roads and never heard anything.

Oh- My sway bar has been relocated back a little for better alignment of the links. Maybe yours are at an angle?

Here's my relocation: https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/growing-up-doesnt-have-to-suck.93510/post-1747041

And the final/current rendition: https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/growing-up-doesnt-have-to-suck.93510/post-1748423

Here's how they're sitting. There's a slight angle but I don't see any contact points..

 

[iamdub]

Here's how they're sitting. There's a slight angle but I don't see any contact points..

View attachment 404972

I'm wondering if you have slack elsewhere and the reduced movement from the firmer bar is making that slack move differently than it did when there was more side-to-side flex. It might not be actual contact between components (bar to control arm, etc.), but something like slack in the control arm bushings abruptly being forced to articulate slightly differently than how they've been worn in.

What if you roll about 5 MPH and stomp the brake, in forward and/or reverse? Try this with the wheels straight and with them turned in each direction.

 

[GranPrix]

I'm wondering if you have slack elsewhere and the reduced movement from the firmer bar is making that slack move differently than it did when there was more side-to-side flex. It might not be actual contact between components (bar to control arm, etc.), but something like slack in the control arm bushings abruptly being forced to articulate slightly differently than how they've been worn in.

What if you roll about 5 MPH and stomp the brake, in forward and/or reverse? Try this with the wheels straight and with them turned in each direction.

It's crossed my mind recently.


I'll try this tmrw.