Updated Gas vs Diesel Engine and Resale Value?

[Stbentoak]

The other thing to consider is that the LM2 uses the exact same thrust bearings, yet they haven't had the same issues as the LZ0. Can you imagine it was a drunk or disgruntled employee messing up the installation?

It would be pretty sad if this would really be the case of somebody just missing inserting both of them. First of all their parts counts would have had to have been way off because they should be issued in sets. Unless somebody slipped them in their pocket and took them home there's gotta be a lot of leftover thrust bearing somewhere..

 

[Fless]

It would be pretty sad if this would really be the case of somebody just missing inserting both of them. First of all their parts counts would have had to have been way off because they should be issued in sets. Unless somebody slipped them in their pocket and took them home there's gotta be a lot of leftover thrust bearing somewhere..

I'd be surprised if the failed engines wouldn't be tracked by work shift and, possibly, assembler. When I worked at CAT they tracked every piece we assembled and made, and that could be traced back to the shift and assembler.

 

[Stbentoak]

I'd be surprised if the failed engines wouldn't be tracked by work shift and, possibly, assembler. When I worked at CAT they tracked every piece we assembled and made, and that could be traced back to the shift and assembler.

You may be giving GM too much credit here. I think they just pull these parts from a big bin and stick them in and when the bins empty, they bring them another bin. If it was really done like the way they build aircraft engines you are issued a specific number of parts, the correct amount of parts to assemble the engine correctly, and if you don't have enough of something or something leftover you have made a mistake and must go back.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

You may be giving GM too much credit here. I think they just pull these parts from a big bin and stick them in and when the bins empty, they bring them another bin. If it was really done like the way they build aircraft engines you are issued a specific number of parts, the correct amount of parts to assemble the engine correctly, and if you don't have enough of something or something leftover you have made a mistake and must go back.

Either way, it's a mess. The LM2 was pretty bulletproof.

 

[Stbentoak]

Either way, it's a mess. The LM2 was pretty bulletproof.

It's seeming more and more that it's only a mess if you are missing one and that seems to be getting less and less attention anymore. If you are all put together you are and have always been in as good of shape as any LM2. This problem, while a problem if you have it, is nowhere near in the arena of the 6.2 issue.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

It's seeming more and more that it's only a mess if you are missing one and that seems to be getting less and less attention anymore. If you are all put together you are and have always been in as good of shape as any LM2. This problem, while a problem if you have it, is nowhere near in the arena of the 6.2 issue.

I would agree. I wouldn't touch the 6.2 with a ten-foot pole.

 

[West 1]

Thrust bearing failure was cured many years back. Federal Mogul developed a Thrust Bearing known as the Ramp and Flat. The Ramp helped pull oil over the load / flat area of the bearing. The ramp created a pumping action that let the trust bearing operate at loads with zero failures that would have killed all previous product. The patents on that technology are expired so any company could use it today without paying the patent fee's.
Some transmissions do create pressure on the torque converter and it pushes on the rear of the flywheel under loads. The old Turbo 400 GM transmission was famous for this and ruined many thrust bearings before Ramp and Flat technology was introduced.

By saying GM only installed 1/2 the trust I am thinking they decided to run an Upper bearing with the Thrust and not the lower to save cost. In the old days the engine would have spent 6 months on a dyno test before that type change would be implemented. In 6 mos constantly going through driving cycles the engines would have 200,000 miles on them. All of that development today is done on Computer Estimates not real world driving or dyno testing. Sounds like they made an error.

 

[Stbentoak]

By saying GM only installed 1/2 the trust I am thinking they decided to run an Upper bearing with the Thrust and not the lower to save cost. In the old days the engine would have spent 6 months on a dyno test before that type change would be implemented. In 6 mos constantly going through driving cycles the engines would have 200,000 miles on them. All of that development today is done on Computer Estimates not real world driving or dyno testing. Sounds like they made an error.

I highly doubt this. It isn't about saving money. Does replacing engines save them money? Somebody just forgot to put the parts in. It's just that simple. I'm sure they've had a lot of 6 Sigma guru consultants and Kaizen events to poka yoke this process....

 

[West 1]

Easy to verify, look up a Federal Mogul Main set for that engine, then look up a Clevite Main set for that engine. They will show exactly what part is used in the upper and lower for each main bearing. They will offer exactly what the factory offered. They follow OEM and in almost every case both companies are approved suppliers of those OEM bearings and did development work for GM to make them.

The only time they vary from OEM is when the OEM has proven to fail. Those changes would be years down the road after introduction.

Many OEM’s have moved engine bearings off shore to save money. It could be they moved the Main Bearing supplier off shore and they just did not have the proper technology to make them live in this engine?