Torque converter recommendation and trans tune

[gregsmy]

I have a 2010 Suburban 5.3 6L80 that I think the torque converter is beginning to fail. I rebuilt the trans 50k miles ago but used a generic rebuilt stock style converter. I am starting to get symptoms of the converter going south and want to replace it before it trashes anything. So it seems like at a minimum it needs to have the billet cover and there are some other options as well to make it more heavy duty. I mostly just daily drive it and sometimes pull a small utility trailer but don't want to worry about it failing anytime soon. After reading thru various threads I came up with some different recommendations.

This one seems to be the most popular.

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This one is a FHD. Not sure what the difference is.

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This one has the billet cover and billet piston which Sonnax says would be the "better" extra heavy duty

6L80, 6L90 Heavy-Duty Converter Build Basics | Sonnax

Understand the options for upgrading 6L80, 6L90 stock-size, 300mm torque converters with Sonnax heavy-duty parts for JMBX, JMDV, JMDZ and JMDV units.

www.sonnax.com

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Then there is this one that seems to be a new comer but is all new parts and a multi disc

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Then after figuring out which torque converter to buy it seems I should also look into having a transmission tune as well to change lock up and shifting characteristics to make everything last longer. I found that Black Bear Performance has an option to do transmission only tuning.

Any other recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

A Black Bear Performance tune on the transmission is fantastic. I believe that the transmission tune is even better than the engine tune, and that's saying something.

Other folks will chime in on the torque converter recommendations.

 

[Geotrash]

I have a 2010 Suburban 5.3 6L80 that I think the torque converter is beginning to fail. I rebuilt the trans 50k miles ago but used a generic rebuilt stock style converter. I am starting to get symptoms of the converter going south and want to replace it before it trashes anything. So it seems like at a minimum it needs to have the billet cover and there are some other options as well to make it more heavy duty. I mostly just daily drive it and sometimes pull a small utility trailer but don't want to worry about it failing anytime soon. After reading thru various threads I came up with some different recommendations.

This one seems to be the most popular.

Pardon Our Interruption

This one is a FHD. Not sure what the difference is.

Pardon Our Interruption

This one has the billet cover and billet piston which Sonnax says would be the "better" extra heavy duty

6L80, 6L90 Heavy-Duty Converter Build Basics | Sonnax

Understand the options for upgrading 6L80, 6L90 stock-size, 300mm torque converters with Sonnax heavy-duty parts for JMBX, JMDV, JMDZ and JMDV units.

www.sonnax.com

Pardon Our Interruption

Then there is this one that seems to be a new comer but is all new parts and a multi disc

Pardon Our Interruption

Then after figuring out which torque converter to buy it seems I should also look into having a transmission tune as well to change lock up and shifting characteristics to make everything last longer. I found that Black Bear Performance has an option to do transmission only tuning.

Any other recommendations would be appreciated.

I have the BU60FHD in my 2012 and love it for towing. I have about 35K on it now and it's help up great so far. And I second the recommendation for the Blackbear tune for the 6L80. Amazing and will extend the service life, for sure.

Note that the BU60FHD I have was built when the product line was owned by CVC. VEGE bought the product line (and maybe all of CVC) and continued these. No idea if the quality is the same, but it was initially recommended to me by a local transmission overhauler with many years' experience with these trucks.

 

[blondie70]

I had read this before the work on my truck...and went with the same TC. Working good too ! Thanks again for the writeup !

 

[Marky Dissod]

I believe that the transmission tune is even better than the engine tune, and that's saying something.

Transmission shift behavior tuning has been THE most important tuning factor,
ever since the 4L80(h) became the 4L80E in 1991 quickly followed by the 4L60(h) becoming the 4L60E in 1992.
(The h in 4L80(h) & 4L60(h) is SILENT, as in, those precede their electronically commanded evolutions.)

It is FAR easier to (learn how to safely) tune a transmission's shift personality,
compared to (learning how to safely) modify spark timing tables.

An engine tune alone, without a transmission tune, might actually become frustrating, depending on the driver.
A transmission tune, without an engine tune, is FAR FAR more likely to yield a satisfied driver.

 

[gregsmy]

A Black Bear Performance tune on the transmission is fantastic. I believe that the transmission tune is even better than the engine tune, and that's saying something.

Other folks will chime in on the torque converter recommendations.

Black Bear offers the transmission tune only as a separate purchase. When you had yours done is there anything specific you wanted? Or do the have a more "generic" tune they do for the these vehicles?

 

[gregsmy]

I'm really interested in the LUK TC0017. Being its all new and a dual clutch design it sounds like a better upgrade. The reman process worries me anymore unless you go with a smaller rebuilder but it usually costs a lot more than the big companies like CVC. The converter I have in there now is beginning to fail at 50k. Granted it was just a stock rebuild without the billet cover, but I would expect it to go at least 100k for daily driving and not towing.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

Black Bear offers the transmission tune only as a separate purchase. When you had yours done is there anything specific you wanted? Or do the have a more "generic" tune they do for the these vehicles?

First, if I was going to engage Black Bear Performance in a tune, I'd want both the engine tune and the transmission tune, as they will work together in an integrated manner to produce a desired result. You tell BBP specifically what you want out of the tune (mileage, performance, towing, or a combination), and they will build a custom tune that meets your needs. And, all of this can be done remotely.

 

[intheburbs]

Granted, this was over 10 years ago, but when I went to Blackbear and got their EFI live tune, they programmed/tuned the engine and the transmission both. Sent me a recorder, did some driving loops including WOT 0-60 runs, told them what I wanted, emailed me the tunes and I programmed the truck. Easy peasy.

I'm convinced that's one of the reasons I'm still on my original TC and 6L90 at 261k miles, despite either 1) towing or 2) driving in a "spirited" manner every time I take it out. Had the tune done at about 110k.

First, if I was going to engage Black Bear Performance in a tune, I'd want both the engine tune and the transmission tune, as they will work together to produce a desired result. You tell BBP specifically what you want out of the tune (mileage, performance, towing, or a combination), and they will build a custom rune that meets your needs. And, all of this can be done remotely.

 

[gregsmy]

I'm not really interested in engine performance tune as I am happy enough with that. I did send the ECU off years ago and had the AFM turned off. Plus there is the cost of having to buy the AutoCal hardware to do the remote tune, which is $750 tune/hardware combined. Then what am I going to do with the AutoCal after that? I am mostly interested in extending the life of the trans and improving the sluggish and sloppy shift points. The trans tune is $125 after you get your $400 deposit back when you return the device.

 

[Foggy]

THE absolute reason the 6L80E torque converter won't last is the programming
settings of the lock up AND how it interacts with the DOD....
They work together so the consumer doesn't feel so much NVH when going
in and out of DOD and Lock Up...
A brand new converter of any quality will not last forever if you don't change
the DOD and lock up strategies !!
IMO: get the trans and engine tune together. Not seperate. You'll be much happier
with the DOD gone and the rest of the parameters that will help

 

[gregsmy]

THE absolute reason the 6L80E torque converter won't last is the programming
settings of the lock up AND how it interacts with the DOD....
They work together so the consumer doesn't feel so much NVH when going
in and out of DOD and Lock Up...
A brand new converter of any quality will not last forever if you don't change
the DOD and lock up strategies !!
IMO: get the trans and engine tune together. Not seperate. You'll be much happier
with the DOD gone and the rest of the parameters that will help

My understanding was that if the AFM was disabled, then the cylinder switching was not a factor anymore? That’s why I am considering the trans tune only to deal with shifting and lockup functions.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Although I agree with foggy, that forgoing the engine tune is not recommended per se,
you may safely change your mind in the future, so it's not 'wrong'.
Engine tuning is not as obvious as transmission tuning, simply put.
Still, just because a tune's benefits to hypermilers and conservative drivers
are more subtle, doesn't mean it would not be worth it.
Specifically, a properly edited tune can improve MpGs,
provided the driver drives with that specific goal in mind.

 

[gregsmy]

Update to the thread. I decided to go with the Luk TC0017 torque converter. My reasoning is that it has twin discs, all brand new with the later style mounting plate. I also added a transmission cooler while I was at it and did the Black Bear trans only tune. So far everything is working well. The tach needle bouncing slightly in 6th gear was definitely an early indicator that the torque converter was going bad. I am curious to see how much black stuff is in the pan / magnet when I change the oil next time.

 

[jaxscuby]

where did you read that the LUK converter had dual clutch disk?

 

[gregsmy]

where did you read that the LUK converter had dual clutch disk?

Schaeffler Vehicle Lifetime Solutions

vehiclelifetimesolutions.schaeffler.us

 

[Scrappycrow]

A benefit of the LUK that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet is that because it's new, you don't have to deal with sending the core to the manufacturer. A used one is heavy and messy, and IIRC you have to pay for the shipping.

 

[gregsmy]

A benefit of the LUK that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet is that because it's new, you don't have to deal with sending the core to the manufacturer. A used one is heavy and messy, and IIRC you have to pay for the shipping.

Yep. That was also a consideration. Going to put my old one on FB marketplace as a core.

 

[jaxscuby]

Schaeffler Vehicle Lifetime Solutions

vehiclelifetimesolutions.schaeffler.us

Copy..went to the site via the link.
But no mention of dual clutch disk in converter..

 

[jaxscuby]

so yes definitely going to replace my TC, but when the fluid is "cold" no slips nor shudders..
just after it starts to warm up.

yes, did the thermostat delete mod..150 or less all day..