Oil analysis 0-20 Wolf after 10,000 km or 6,250 miles

[Vladimir2306]

Drive it like you stole it. And yes, you are not an expert. Sometimes common sense is not so common.

So you give links to the study, I'm also interested. Are there any reliable sources? To be honest, when I looked for research on this topic, I did not find anything except one study by Ford, which said that accelerated oil change, on the contrary, harms the life of the engine. But this is a study of either the 80s or the 90s of the last century... There are no other studies. There is no confirmation of your words.

 

[blanchard7684]

The original SAE paper on 0w20 development was done for hypothesis testing on fuel economy differences.

The paper is here:

SAE International | Advancing mobility knowledge and solutions

www.sae.org

It is $40.

I bought it and read it. It is not a difficult read.

Fuel economy improved slightly and according to the specific drive cycle tests; engine wear was similar to both 5w20 and 5w30.

So no definitive conclusions vs 0w40 ( wear could be less than both 5w30 and 0w20).

The engines tested were normally specified with 5w20 or 5w30. Changing to 0w20 in this scenario isn’t as big of a change as going from 0w40 to 0w20. They are also a radically different engine and powertrain ( transmission gearing and loading) than a 6.2 ( or 5.3).

So it is a factual matter that 0w20 was designed for incremental fuel economy gains.

The testing isn’t totally applicable to a direct injection v8 that is heavily laden with 6000lbs.

So conclusions about engine wear based on this paper and its results is unwise.

If people are highly motivated they can follow the method in this video to compare 0w20 to 0w40.

To do this you would need the appropriate machine design text to get the right minimum flow thickness charts . On top of the right dimensions for bearings. And you have to get the right viscosity units in terms of reyn.

the point is you can accurately calculate the viscosity required for max load bearing capacity ( in a worst case scenario of high load and low rpm).

When I did this I found that 0w20 had a small margin of safety ( oil viscosity degradation ) for 5.3 . 5w30 had a good margin of safety for 5.3 ( larger degradation of oil viscosity).

I found no margin of safety for 6.2 with 0w20. In fact 0w20 was a good bit lower than viscosity needed for max bearing load.

5w30 is a bit under viscosity needed for max bearing load on 6.2. 0w40 had a small margin of safety for 6.2.

 

[Scarey]

So you give links to the study, I'm also interested. Are there any reliable sources? To be honest, when I looked for research on this topic, I did not find anything except one study by Ford, which said that accelerated oil change, on the contrary, harms the life of the engine. But this is a study of either the 80s or the 90s of the last century... There are no other studies. There is no confirmation of your words.

Let me get this straight, you’re saying early oil changes will harm the engine? Don’t tell the dealership I bought from, that has free oil changes for life, they recommend significantly more frequently than 7500 miles and by the way it’s their nickel.
Back to my earlier statement, your posts are puzzling. I think there is more to the story.

 

[swathdiver]

Would @Vladimir2306 love the forum, Bob is the Oil Guy?

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/whats-new/posts/3549167/

I've been thinking about this discussion and appreciate @blanchard7684 post. What he was writing about in that post reminded me of the Corvette's switch to a different oil for track use.

50 weight oils for Corvette track use

Prior to 2019, Corvette owner manuals recommended switch to Mobil 1 15W-50 for track use. In 2019, with the switch to Mobil 1 0W-40 ESP, this is no longer officially recommended. However, when I recently attended the Corvette Owners School at Spring Mountain, they said they still use exclusively...

bobistheoilguy.com

Much of what I learned about engine oils outside of my own training and racing experience comes from a fella named Grumpy Bear over on the GM-Trucks forum. He's a retired engineer who used to specialize in lubricating oils if memory serves. He has some long-term threads over there that are worth reading.

 

[iamlegion]

FFS stop the eggplant measuring contest arguing about oil weight. None of you are engineers and none of you seem remotely interested in changing your minds. Nobody cares what you think.

Now I’m done addressing the children, what does everyone think if I tried to start us a google Sheet and crowd source oil analysis data. If we could get one aggregated set of data it would be much easier than scouring hundreds of pages of oil weight arguments. Regardless if people want to use 0w40 SuperCar or used canola oil at least we would have one place to see actual data to inform the decision.

 

[swathdiver]

FFS stop the eggplant measuring contest arguing about oil weight. None of you are engineers and none of you seem remotely interested in changing your minds. Nobody cares what you think.

Now I’m done addressing the children, what does everyone think if I tried to start us a google Sheet and crowd source oil analysis data. If we could get one aggregated set of data it would be much easier than scouring hundreds of pages of oil weight arguments. Regardless if people want to use 0w40 SuperCar or used canola oil at least we would have one place to see actual data to inform the decision.

Blackstone Labs has a fleet average that they include with their reports. That might help you if you someone provides the info from their L87.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

Blackstone Labs has a fleet average that they include with their reports. That might help you if you someone provides the info from their L87.

My understanding is that Blackstone made an analysis of 0W-20 versus 5W-30.

 

[jfoj]

Lets just say there have been a number of higher mileage L87 failures that only ran 0W20. In the 60-80k mile range. Sure there are probably some that surpassed this mileage and are still going, but I am not risking my engine with 0W20 and 7500+ mile OCI.

Each his own.

The industry pretty much backed into 0W20 and lower viscosity oils for fuel economy and they found that the Dyno numbers were slightly better, BUT that comes with a long term cost. Not much has changed with the overall engine design other than Variable Valve Timing and Cylinder Deactivation, however, Variable Valve Timing has been implemented for over 30 years in the European engines and they never ran 0W20 oils back then. What many of the engine designers missed was the fact that the engine bearings became harder and the bearing surface finishes were more critical and most miss resolving the bearing surface finishes. The harder bearings were counter with coatings, but GM and some other manufacturers have stop coating some or all of the bearings, probably due to cost and this bit them in the backside BIG time.

Everyone that has never built engines or transmissions will follow the rules, those of use that have been in the trenches for many years will do things our way.

Follow the rules, obey the OLM, go to the dealer, you cannot turn back the clock and fix what damage you have done.

Good luck!

 

[BacDoc]

I think the google spreadsheet for data is a great idea!

Subtly but officially GM is telling us that 0-40W is what the 6.2l engine needs. If your engine passes the test they put in 0-40W. Reading between the lines they are saying that is what we should have specified for the 6.2l

I changed the oil at 500 miles and 1000 miles and then every 4-5 k miles on my 2024 Tahoe 6.2l I don’t like to see the OLM lower than 50%. As I only have 12k miles I am still running 0-20W until I get the inspection.

I don’t change tires at 50% but I don’t let them get to the point where it looks like they have to be changed, if that makes any sense. One of the best driving experiences is leaving the shop with brand new tires, especially if they are Michelin! Can’t wait to ditch the Allenzas that came with the truck.

 

[jfoj]

The problem for GM is if they say that all the 6.2l should switch to 0W40, they have 3 problems. The fact that GM is even switching to 0W40 for the recalled engines that pass the Pico test should speak VOLUMES! They know 0W20 is inadequate and knew it when they speced if for the engines, but their hands were tied. They made a calculated gamble and lost.

1. Government Fuel Economy, Emission and EPA certs were all based on 0W20 so this opens up many cans of worms.

2. If GM wholesale switches the recommended oil to 0W40 than ANY oil related failure or lubricated part in the engine would come into question. "GM speced the wrong oil", the failure was not my fault is was GM's. This opens GM to lawsuits and other problems.

3. Extended Warranty claims, need I say more. I still expect the Extended Warranty companies to deny claims for any of the 6.2l that fail that are running either oil within the 2021-2024 model year even if they were not in the recall window. Time will tell.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Lets just say there have been a number of higher mileage L87 failures that only ran 0W20. In the 60-80k mile range. Sure there are probably some that surpassed this mileage and are still going, but I am not risking my engine with 0W20 and 7500+ mile OCI.

Each his own.

The industry pretty much backed into 0W20 and lower viscosity oils for fuel economy and they found that the Dyno numbers were slightly better, BUT that comes with a long term cost. Not much has changed with the overall engine design other than Variable Valve Timing and Cylinder Deactivation, however, Variable Valve Timing has been implemented for over 30 years in the European engines and they never ran 0W20 oils back then. What many of the engine designers missed was the fact that the engine bearings became harder and the bearing surface finishes were more critical and most miss resolving the bearing surface finishes. The harder bearings were counter with coatings, but GM and some other manufacturers have stop coating some or all of the bearings, probably due to cost and this bit them in the backside BIG time.

Everyone that has never built engines or transmissions will follow the rules, those of use that have been in the trenches for many years will do things our way.

Follow the rules, obey the OLM, go to the dealer, you cannot turn back the clock and fix what damage you have done.

Good luck!

Oil 0-20 and L87 engine breakdowns are not related to each other in any way

 

[jfoj]

Oil 0-20 and L87 engine breakdowns are not related to each other in any way

I believe you have first hand experience of that!

 

[Vladimir2306]

I believe you have first hand experience of that!

Of course, and real, not theoretical. In fact, a more or less real picture of what is happening in the engine has already appeared. The liners begin to produce metal, creating metal dust in the engine. This dust begins to work as an abrasive, grinding the liners and crankshaft even stronger. But most importantly, this abrasive grinds out the oil pump blades. Which after a while is no longer able to create the necessary pressure. And that's it, in one moment, the engine is without the right pressure. Will 0-40 help with this? No, the oil pressure on the oil is 0-20 and 0-40 is almost the same. So stop writing nonsense about 0-20. Normal oil, proven over the years.

 

[jfoj]

Not a single failure that anyone has posted about has had an Oil Pressure Alert before the engine failure. I have seen many engines driven for miles without oil pressure and not had them lock up. Everything from clogged oil pickups, busted oil filters, split oil pans, you name it, I have seen engines drive 5+ miles with the oil light and/or no oil pressure and not seize, fixed the problem and the engines ran for years afterwards.

Had it happen on my kids car and luckily they did not drive it home 50 miles, but they drove 5+ miles with the oil light on and the valve train rattling. Repaired and car was driving for 3 more years before it was sold!

 

[Silverado4x4]

Engines produced now are produced at a much much tighter tolerance and 0w20 will get into those tight tolerances 0w40 will have issues getting into those tight tolerances. Get parts that are out of spec in a Engine I dont care if you run 90w oil it's going to fail sooner or later. As I said 0w40 is just a band-aid to prolong the the motor just a little.

 

[jfoj]

Engines produced now are produced at a much much tighter tolerance and 0w20 will get into those tight tolerances 0w40 will have issues getting into those tight tolerances. Get parts that are out of spec in a Engine I dont care if you run 90w oil it's going to fail sooner or later. As I said 0w40 is just a band-aid to prolong the the motor just a little.

Tolerances have not changed significantly. You clearly have probably never had an engine open or built one. Funny how many of the same basic GM engines run higher viscosity oils and they even recommend higher viscosity oils for track use.

GM is not recommending the 0W40 for the recalled 6.2l due to engine clearance issues, they are recommending it due to surface finish and loading issues. Maybe some damage has been done to some of these engines, but the 0W40 will continue to protect far better than the 0W20.

0W40 will prolong the engine life because it has better margins for the loading the 6.2l puts on the engine bearings along with the less than ideal surface finishes. Towing with the 5.3l I would not run 0W20 either.

 

[blanchard7684]

Of course, and real, not theoretical. In fact, a more or less real picture of what is happening in the engine has already appeared. The liners begin to produce metal, creating metal dust in the engine. This dust begins to work as an abrasive, grinding the liners and crankshaft even stronger.

Vladimir, this is an excellent description of what happens in mixed film lubrication scenarios which occurs when there is insufficient film strength to support the applied load.

 

[blanchard7684]

Tolerances have not changed significantly. Funny how many of the same basic GM engines run higher viscosity oils and they even recommend higher viscosity oils for track use

Can not emphasize this enough.

Thousandth to a thou and a half per inch of journal diameter.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Vladimir, this is an excellent description of what happens in mixed film lubrication scenarios which occurs when there is insufficient film strength to support the applied load.

This has nothing to do with the oil film, it is the low quality of the liners. We already have examples of the same picture on oil with an index of 40.

 

[blanchard7684]

This has nothing to do with the oil film, it is the low quality of the liners. We already have examples of the same picture on oil with an index of 40.

never change, Vladimir.