Hey all, first post on this forum with a question about my transmissions housing. 2004 4l60e with 180k miles. I recently lost the ability to shift past 2nd gear and the clutches slip in 2nd except for a sweet spot around 2k rpm where it will bite 2nd and drive normal albeit without shifting up to 3rd. I dropped the pan to inspect the fluid and found that it was pretty black colored with a fair amount of fine metal shavings stuck to the magnet but no big chunks. I then thought I'll at least flush the torque converter out and replace the filter to see if that helps anything before taking it to a shop. When I went to install my new filter I noticed what looks alot like a broken section of metal next to where the filter neck plugs into the bottom of the tranny. Through this possible hole I can see what looks like what I believe is the hydraulic pump. The reason I think it looks to be broken is because of the jagged edge that looks unlike the rest of the casting but there were no large chunks anywhere in the pan. Is it possible this piece may have been sucked up into the pump somehow and is blocking flow to the 3/4 clutch pack causing it not to shift? Thanks for reading and I appreciate any input, I'll attach a picture of what I'm talking about.
4l60e question...is it junk?
- Thread starter svridge
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Alex_M
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Looks like casting flash to me, but I don't recall that specific view off hand in a '60e. Wish I had one easy access and I'd pop the pan off and look for you, but my garage is a mess right now and my transmissions are at the very back under a table.
I would say, if there are no chunks in the pan or in the filter then it is very unlikely that this is a piece that has just broken off.
I would say, if there are no chunks in the pan or in the filter then it is very unlikely that this is a piece that has just broken off.
Alex_M
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Scratch that, I had one empty 4l60e case that was easy access.
Confirmed, same spot, that's just some rough casting flash. No issue.
Confirmed, same spot, that's just some rough casting flash. No issue.
Alex_M
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That said, if you've lost gears and you have metal, you need a rebuild. I wouldn't waste the money refilling the trans with fresh fluid and filter.
Literally, I'd pour the old fluid back in it or fill it up with used motor oil to get it to the tranny shop instead of spending the money on new tranny fluid. Either will work fine in this situation, and you won't cause any extra damage at this point.
Literally, I'd pour the old fluid back in it or fill it up with used motor oil to get it to the tranny shop instead of spending the money on new tranny fluid. Either will work fine in this situation, and you won't cause any extra damage at this point.
rockola1971
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2-4 band is burnt up. Does it go in reverse?
nonickatall
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Never, and under no circumstances, should you put old motor oil in an automatic transmission, unless you want to make one last trip to the junkyard. If a shop is to rebuild the transmission, the transmission must be disassembled. But you can't get the oil out of the torque converter without leaving any residue, for example. Engine oil residues would therefore always remain in the transmission.
To that is a bad idea.
Alex_M
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That's not so, I've done it before I rebuilt a trans on more than one occasion. You should never go through the trouble of rebuilding a transmission without also having your torque converter rebuilt, so that's a non-issue.
Especially if there's already metal in the transmission, that won't come out if old oil won't.
Second, motor oil will not hurt a transmission to run in a pinch, or in a situation like this. Even if it's a good trans, if you've got nothing to top off with but a quart of (fresh, in the case of a good trans) motor oil, it won't hurt your trans at all.
Especially if there's already metal in the transmission, that won't come out if old oil won't.
Second, motor oil will not hurt a transmission to run in a pinch, or in a situation like this. Even if it's a good trans, if you've got nothing to top off with but a quart of (fresh, in the case of a good trans) motor oil, it won't hurt your trans at all.
YukonRog
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If your fluid is contaminated with any metal you really need to replace the cooler, the radiator, and all three of the lines connected all those parts. If there's one little teeny piece of metal in there it can ruin a new transmission. Lots of people just flush everything. I flushed mine 3 times forward and back and on the last one I really pressurized it. Yep, got metal out. Decided to go with a pristine system all around. Good time to upgrade the cooler too.
I wouldn't say it has a ton of metal floating around in the fluid, just stuck to the magnet, but yeah I'm going to agree it's in for a rebuild. I consider myself a fairly competent but rebuilding it myself is a little out of my league, and having it rebuilt is a little out of my budget. I think what I'll end up doing is go junkyard scouting for a wrecked chevy and see if I can pull myself a brand used trans then flush that out with my new fluid and filter. I don't think I'll bother filling it back up since the old atf is now in a container with a bunch of nasty old motor oil and I have other vehicles/a trailer to move it around if need be. Thanks for the input and merry Christmas to everyone who responded!
It has reverse and shifts 1-2 fine. For a couple years now its had some issues with 3rd. It would sometimes shift hard into 3rd and occasionally slip under load or at high altitude. If I'd kept it maintained before I might've saved it but I neglected it and here we are. Lesson learned I guess
rockola1971
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"clutches slip in 2nd except for a sweet spot around 2k rpm where it will bite 2nd and drive normal". Likely your 2-4 band slipping. Not going into 3rd could be all kinds of things causing that. That tranny is nuked and needs a complete rebuild. Black fluid is burnt extra crispy.
Alex_M
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If you're game to pull it and reinstall it yourself, you may find a local tranny shop that would do a reasonably priced rebuild on a carry out. Of course, you're still probably looking at $400-$500 in parts once you include swapping out for a reman torque converter plus the build fee on top.
Still, if you're looking at $400-800 on a used trans... I'd very seriously consider that option. I personally will almost never install a used tranny just due to the complete PITA of pulling and installing one, compared to the work/cost of rebuilding one. Granted I do all my own, but even to pay someone I would consider the return on investment to well worth it compared to the risk of installing a used trans that may be near the end of its life. Of course you can mitigate some risk by popping off pans and inspecting the fluid and particulates in the pan, but this is not always conclusive as even in the scrap yard someone may have tried a last ditch tranny fluid change before sending their own vehicle off to be junked, or the occasional unsavory character who would try to clean up the pan and dump in newer fluid to make the trans look better than it is.
I would look at the amount of time you would spend looking for another trans, going to inspect possibly a couple of transmissions, pulling the trans yourself if in a pick and pull lot, and then I would add 50% more time again to account for risk of getting a bad used trans and having to go thru the process again. Calculate how much you would make had you spent the same time working at your job or on a side job, and compare that to the increase in cost of a reman trans.
At the end of the day nobody knows your situation better than you, so do what you feel fits your situation best, but from my experience this is the advice I would give. Best of luck and Merry Christmas!
Still, if you're looking at $400-800 on a used trans... I'd very seriously consider that option. I personally will almost never install a used tranny just due to the complete PITA of pulling and installing one, compared to the work/cost of rebuilding one. Granted I do all my own, but even to pay someone I would consider the return on investment to well worth it compared to the risk of installing a used trans that may be near the end of its life. Of course you can mitigate some risk by popping off pans and inspecting the fluid and particulates in the pan, but this is not always conclusive as even in the scrap yard someone may have tried a last ditch tranny fluid change before sending their own vehicle off to be junked, or the occasional unsavory character who would try to clean up the pan and dump in newer fluid to make the trans look better than it is.
I would look at the amount of time you would spend looking for another trans, going to inspect possibly a couple of transmissions, pulling the trans yourself if in a pick and pull lot, and then I would add 50% more time again to account for risk of getting a bad used trans and having to go thru the process again. Calculate how much you would make had you spent the same time working at your job or on a side job, and compare that to the increase in cost of a reman trans.
At the end of the day nobody knows your situation better than you, so do what you feel fits your situation best, but from my experience this is the advice I would give. Best of luck and Merry Christmas!
I have an '02 Z71 4x4. I lost my trannie at 167k. Mine suffered a horrid death as the rear planetary case cracked. If you are planning to keep yours, I recommend you check out the Sonnax parts catalog and their build sheets for varying levels of performance and strengthening. Agree with replacing the T/C, flush lines, and get a big cooler. Good luck.
