2022 order cutoff to 2023 order-to-availability

[Polo08816]

I understand, but when you make people wait long and keep making them eliminate features/options to build their car, you're eventually going to make them turn elsewhere

Which why Ford and Toyota are chomping at the bit to "get some". Heck, even Stellantis wants a piece of that pie with the Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer, and rumored Dodge Durango which will share the Wagoneer platform.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

Which why Ford and Toyota are chomping at the bit to "get some". Heck, even Stellantis wants a piece of that pie with the Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer, and rumored Dodge Durango which will share the Wagoneer platform.

The grand wagoneer is very expensive and for the look of it it seems like Jeep just couldn’t let their identity go - looks like a Jeep married a suburban and adopted a Range Rover. I think it’s ugly. I’d rather just buy an Escalade or Navigator for that price

The new Sequoia looks nice but it’s going to be as expensive as the Tahoe/Yukon when you start adding features and add-ons

 

[RVAHokie]

The grand wagoneer is very expensive and for the look of it it seems like Jeep just couldn’t let their identity go - looks like a Jeep married a suburban and adopted a Range Rover. I think it’s ugly. I’d rather just buy an Escalade or Navigator for that price

The new Sequoia looks nice but it’s going to be as expensive as the Tahoe/Yukon when you start adding features and add-ons

I'm a jeep guy and if it was nice to look at I would buy it. Unfortunately from the rear doors on it looks terrible so I'm not even considering it.

I drove a GC now and need more room which is why I'm about to get a Yukon.

 

[Polo08816]

I don’t think the demographic that is purchasing these vehicles will be put off by a percentage point or two on their financing deal…the fact is demand is currently much higher than supply and I can’t see that changing any time in the foreseeable future. If you are choosing to wait it out to get a better deal you may be waiting for a long time (I do agree on never paying over MSRP, I’d sooner walk to work than do that)

Mortgage rate soars closer to 5% in its second huge jump this week

The average rate on the 30-year fixed mortgage shot significantly higher Friday, rising 24 basis points to 4.95%, according to Mortgage News Daily.

www.cnbc.com

What if we start seeing the same stuff in auto loans as what is happening on 30 year mortgages?

Average 30 year mortgage rates almost hit 5% at 4.95% before we even get a 50 basis point Fed funds rate hike in May. That's almost double the interest I am paying on my house that I bought in 2017. I'm interested in seeing how the additional rate increases reduces demand.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

I'm interested in seeing how the additional rate increases reduces demand.

I always hate comparing the housing market to cars.

Cars are a depreciating asset. And people buying expensive cars (I consider a Tahoe/Yukon to be expensive) you shouldn’t need interest rates to be low in order to buy the car.

With homes you still have to put down a downpayment, usually 20%. Interest rates doubling may hurt but I still need to have the cash to even get a mortgage. Plus you can always refinance when rates go down.

 

[Polo08816]

I always hate comparing the housing market to cars.

Cars are a depreciating asset. And people buying expensive cars (I consider a Tahoe/Yukon to be expensive) you shouldn’t need interest rates to be low in order to buy the car.

With homes you still have to put down a downpayment, usually 20%. Interest rates doubling may hurt but I still need to have the cash to even get a mortgage. Plus you can always refinance when rates go down.

I agree. Interest rates shouldn't matter when buying a car because you should have been capable of buying it in cash to begin with. But the reality is that it will because the majority of buyers for these vehicles (which are not necessarily people on these forums) finance because they don't have the cash to buy it outright.

I always chuckle when people say, "Oh the interest rates are low. It's a great time to buy."

All else equal, I prefer to have higher interest rates and a lower principal than a lower interest rate and higher principal for the exact same reason you mentioned. You may have the opportunity to refinance at a lower rate in the future but there's really not much you can do about the principal of the loan.

 

[oxfordrebel55]

Anyone know if May is still the target date for ordering the 2023 Yukons? Here we are in April and our order still hasn't been accepted. I'm thinking that we should pull our order and be one of the first to order a 2023.

Thoughts?

 

[SCUCREW08]

My understanding is that your order will roll over to a 23 if it isn't picked up. If you pull it and resubmit, you'll be behind the rollovers.... I'm in the same boat as you. Order went on December 3rd and so far, nothing.

 

[StephenPT]

My understanding is that your order will roll over to a 23 if it isn't picked up. If you pull it and resubmit, you'll be behind the rollovers.... I'm in the same boat as you. Order went on December 3rd and so far, nothing.

Exactly this. Don't pull your order. You'll just lose your place in-line. If anything changes from your '22 order that won't work with a '23, then your dealer will contact you and update your order.

 

[Dailypaints]

I just placed my order last week, no I'm wondering if I should have waited a month or so. I don't want to get a 2022 right when the 2023's come out. I'd much rather have the newer model.

 

[SCUCREW08]

Gotcha. I'd keep your order in the queue (you don't need to accept it if it gets produced and i'm sure the dealer would be happy to sell it). Depending on your options, I think its unlikely that you'll be getting a '22, if you are pretty bare bones... you have a chance, albit still small for this model year.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

I just placed my order last week, no I'm wondering if I should have waited a month or so. I don't want to get a 2022 right when the 2023's come out. I'd much rather have the newer model.

You’d have to wait until the fall earliest if you want a 2023.

And do we even know what the differences will be?

 

[StephenPT]

Given that there are spy shots circulating around, it looks like there will be a mid-cycle refresh in 2024. Based on that, I don't expect there to be any changes for '23. Hopefully software continues to stabilize and production/part quality continues to go up as the suppliers continue to increase their production capabilities.

 

[Polo08816]

Given that there are spy shots circulating around, it looks like there will be a mid-cycle refresh in 2024. Based on that, I don't expect there to be any changes for '23. Hopefully software continues to stabilize and production/part quality continues to go up as the suppliers continue to increase their production capabilities.

I think it would be worth waiting for the the 2024 model especially if SuperCruise is available.

You would think that the supply situation should start improving by then as well across the entire sector. Aren't some chip fabs supposed to come online in 2024?

 

[firsttimetahoe]

I think it would be worth waiting for the the 2024 model especially if SuperCruise is available.

You would think that the supply situation should start improving by then as well across the entire sector. Aren't some chip fabs supposed to come online in 2024?

And when 2024 rolls around the 2026 may have another must have feature that's missing in 24s..... so may as well wait for that too

 

[Buffalown]

And when 2024 rolls around the 2026 may have another must have feature that's missing in 24s..... so may as well wait for that too

My thoughts exactly, there will always be some new feature or refresh or redesign. Prices and interest rates will also be higher in 23 and 24. Just my opinion and I know everyone's situation is different but life is too short to keep waiting for the next best thing.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

My thoughts exactly, there will always be some new feature or refresh or redesign. Prices and interest rates will also be higher in 23 and 24. Just my opinion and I know everyone's situation is different but life is too short to keep waiting for the next best thing.

Yep. These car's will only increase in price over time. They are becoming more in the class of a luxury vehicle than anything else. Sure they'll always be in a seperate class from the Escalade, like Ford Expedition will do with the Navigator, and won't reach that type of price tag. But as technology and the features improve over time, the cost of these vehicles will never start to go down or even remain the same. Even when the new Sequioa rolls out (top trim starts at over $70k btw) I don't see more competition driving down prices. And look at where Jeep priced the Wagoneer...

 

[Polo08816]

And when 2024 rolls around the 2026 may have another must have feature that's missing in 24s..... so may as well wait for that too

My thoughts exactly, there will always be some new feature or refresh or redesign. Prices and interest rates will also be higher in 23 and 24. Just my opinion and I know everyone's situation is different but life is too short to keep waiting for the next best thing.

I don't see it being particularly advantageous to buy right now in the worst market for a consumer if don't absolutely need it. So not only are you waiting out for better features, but your waiting out for a more opportune time as a buyer.

Yep. These car's will only increase in price over time. They are becoming more in the class of a luxury vehicle than anything else. Sure they'll always be in a seperate class from the Escalade, like Ford Expedition will do with the Navigator, and won't reach that type of price tag. But as technology and the features improve over time, the cost of these vehicles will never start to go down or even remain the same. Even when the new Sequioa rolls out (top trim starts at over $70k btw) I don't see more competition driving down prices. And look at where Jeep priced the Wagoneer...

Perhaps, but if real incomes don't increase with inflation and are decreasing, the market for these vehicles will get smaller and smaller. I see the supply situation improving in the next 2-3 years and I don't see pricing relative to real incomes increasing that much more. Obviously everyone's betting on something.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

I don't see it being particularly advantageous to buy right now in the worst market for a consumer if don't absolutely need it. So not only are you waiting out for better features, but your waiting out for a more opportune time as a buyer.

Perhaps, but if real incomes don't increase with inflation and are decreasing, the market for these vehicles will get smaller and smaller. I see the supply situation improving in the next 2-3 years and I don't see pricing relative to real incomes increasing that much more. Obviously everyone's betting on something.

2 years from now, buying a few thousand below MSRP may be the same price tag as buying at MSRP today. If you're always worried about missing out for new futures, you should be leasing and not buying where you can reset every 3 years.

And considering every dealer by me (except 1) within a 3 our drive radius is selling Tahoes, Yukons and Suburban's over MSRP and not a single one of those dealers has any inventory every... pretty much the only way I'd be able to get my hands on without custom ordering is if a deal fell through and I had to like the car that was available.i don't think income or inflation is relative to this segment of the car market.

 

[Polo08816]

2 years from now, buying a few thousand below MSRP may be the same price tag as buying at MSRP today. If you're always worried about missing out for new futures, you should be leasing and not buying where you can reset every 3 years.

And considering every dealer by me (except 1) within a 3 our drive radius is selling Tahoes, Yukons and Suburban's over MSRP and not a single one of those dealers has any inventory every... pretty much the only way I'd be able to get my hands on without custom ordering is if a deal fell through and I had to like the car that was available.i don't think income or inflation is relative to this segment of the car market.

I'm not worried about missing out on features in a sense that I always need the newest features. I'm worried about missing out on features because I tend to keep my vehicles for 8-10+ years. So if there's a mid cycle refresh or enhancement that significant improves the electronics in a car, I'd wait for that because it might be another 3-4 years before another refresh. If I bought the pre mid cycle refresh, that vehicle would spend 1/3 of its usable life with an older interior/electronics. For someone who will tend to keep their vehicles the same way that I do, a year or two after a mid cycle refresh tends to be the optimal timing.

So the elephant in the room is what is the average individual or annual income of the typical Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban buyer?

I would imagine it the average family income has to be at least $400k/year in a rural or suburban area and probably another $100-200k on top of that for an urban area. Individual income is probably 225+k/year to be able to afford these vehicles.