Expedition Max to Yukon XL?

[DontTaseMeBro]

Wagoneers are pretty loaded with options - The more "stuff" the less payload, as I'm sure you're well aware.

For a reference point - my Yukon XL SLE Diesel - 9-Seat config has a payload of 1583lbs - go up to an SLT or Denali and that number only goes down from there. FYI - the 3.0 Duramax is about 65lbs heavier than the 6.2 V8 so you'll gain back a bit of payload if you go that route.

I'm curious, how does your Yukon have 9 seats? I've never seen one with a 3 seat first row. Is that what yours has?

 

[StephenPT]

I'm curious, how does your Yukon have 9 seats? I've never seen one with a 3 seat first row. Is that what yours has?

It's the same center console/seat that they use on lower trim level Silverado/Sierras. Not for adults unless in a total pinch, but it works well for my 10 & 12yo daughters. GM only makes it available on the SLE/LS trim levels of the SUVs, however there was a forum member here that bought the parts off of E-Bay and converted his SLT with it. https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/front-bucket-to-bench-swap.144190/post-1842962

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

It's the same center console/seat that they use on lower trim level Silverado/Sierras. Not for adults unless in a total pinch, but it works well for my 10 & 12yo daughters. GM only makes it available on the SLE/LS trim levels of the SUVs, however there was a forum member here that bought the parts off of E-Bay and converted his SLT with it. https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/front-bucket-to-bench-swap.144190/post-1842962

View attachment 421376

Huh, who would have thought? I thought they did away with the front row bench seat option in full size SUV's years ago and only kept the option in pickup trucks. Pretty cool for those who have 8 passengers!

 

[olyelr]

Huh, who would have thought? I thought they did away with the front row bench seat option in full size SUV's years ago and only kept the option in pickup trucks. Pretty cool for those who have 8 passengers!

Nope, 9 passengers!

 

[Chad G 1979]

My tahoe has packed in 9 people. Works well when need be.

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

Nope, 9 passengers!

1 driver + 8 passengers = 9 seats.

 

[StephenPT]

Huh, who would have thought? I thought they did away with the front row bench seat option in full size SUV's years ago and only kept the option in pickup trucks. Pretty cool for those who have 8 passengers!

Right - it's a pretty handy option and honestly, once my wife and I learned about it, we locked ourselves into it as one of our "must have" options. There's maybe a few things that the SLT/Denali have that would be "nice to have" for us, but for the most part the SLE comes really well equipped. I think in previous generations the front bench only came on the "fleet spec" configs, but the SLE come with everything we need.

 

[Marky Dissod]

They (OE manufacturers) would prefer to do away with the center-front seat entirely -
I bet the monkey in the middle does not fare well in crash tests without an exploding pillow to punch them in the face.

That said, a center-front seat that can ALSO be a nearly equivalent center console alternative is pretty awesome.

 

[squark]

I'm late to the thread, but this was me a little over a year ago. At the time I pulled a 33' 7,600lb travel trailer (Transcend Xplor 265BH) with a 2018 Expedition Max Limited. The towing experience was ok, but I had a good amount of truck suck and felt uneasy in crosswinds. I also had a ton of issues with the Expy (cam phasers x2, both turbos, 7 leaky shocks, and more), so I started looking at the Yukon XL Denali. I rented one on Turo and pulled our camper (Denali but without air suspension). It was noticeably more stable towing even though Yukon had lower tow ratings. So I decided to order one and got a 2023 Yukon XL Denali Reserve. I've now had it for a year and put 24k miles on it.

I agree with your likes and dislikes list. I will say that I get lower fuel economy (about 2mpg) on the 6.2L V8 than I did on the EcoBoost. The seats are firmer in the Yukon and the Bose stereo isn't nearly as good as the B&O IMO. The other things I preferred on the Expy were the visibility over the hood, the tilt-and-slide seats, and that the third row seats had latch anchors and a headrest for the middle seat. I prefer everything else on the Yukon. I haven't needed any repairs yet, the fit and finish are better, it tows better, it has features like air suspension and head-up display, and the transmission stays much cooler. I'm very glad I made the switch.

For towing, the 6.2L has ample power. It has to rev more to get power compared to the EcoBoost, but it's never lacked power going up steep passes in the Appalachians. It also sounds great when it's under load. When towing I get close to the same fuel economy as the EcoBoost. I have the air suspension and it tows great. It's always level and I don't get much porpoising. I didn't have any complaints when I tried towing with the non-air Yukon either, but that was so long ago I can't remember how they compare. But I'm glad I got the air suspension and would do it again.

The transmission in the Yukon runs significantly cooler than in the Expy. Around town I'm seeing 145-165 degrees depending on traffic. The Expy used to be around 210 degrees. I haven't towed our trailer up slow, steep passes with the Yukon yet, but I did with the Expy and it got warm. I fully expect the Yukon to do better in the same scenario based on how much cooler it stays when towing at speed.

We recently downsized our travel trailer to a 28' Airstream. Towing that my transmission temps stay pretty low on the highway (150s-160s typically) and I get significantly better fuel economy (11.5mpg vs 8.5mpg with our last trailer). Payload on my XL Denali Reserve is 1,427lb. I've taken some steps to lighten the tongue weight of the Airstream and stay under all the weight capacities of the Yukon. We're close to the limit, but it really tows well. My wife really didn't want to get a truck and lose the third row seats, so this was our solution and it's worked out great so far.

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

I'm late to the thread, but this was me a little over a year ago. At the time I pulled a 33' 7,600lb travel trailer (Transcend Xplor 265BH) with a 2018 Expedition Max Limited. The towing experience was ok, but I had a good amount of truck suck and felt uneasy in crosswinds. I also had a ton of issues with the Expy (cam phasers x2, both turbos, 7 leaky shocks, and more), so I started looking at the Yukon XL Denali. I rented one on Turo and pulled our camper (Denali but without air suspension). It was noticeably more stable towing even though Yukon had lower tow ratings. So I decided to order one and got a 2023 Yukon XL Denali Reserve. I've now had it for a year and put 24k miles on it.

I agree with your likes and dislikes list. I will say that I get lower fuel economy (about 2mpg) on the 6.2L V8 than I did on the EcoBoost. The seats are firmer in the Yukon and the Bose stereo isn't nearly as good as the B&O IMO. The other things I preferred on the Expy were the visibility over the hood, the tilt-and-slide seats, and that the third row seats had latch anchors and a headrest for the middle seat. I prefer everything else on the Yukon. I haven't needed any repairs yet, the fit and finish are better, it tows better, it has features like air suspension and head-up display, and the transmission stays much cooler. I'm very glad I made the switch.

For towing, the 6.2L has ample power. It has to rev more to get power compared to the EcoBoost, but it's never lacked power going up steep passes in the Appalachians. It also sounds great when it's under load. When towing I get close to the same fuel economy as the EcoBoost. I have the air suspension and it tows great. It's always level and I don't get much porpoising. I didn't have any complaints when I tried towing with the non-air Yukon either, but that was so long ago I can't remember how they compare. But I'm glad I got the air suspension and would do it again.

The transmission in the Yukon runs significantly cooler than in the Expy. Around town I'm seeing 145-165 degrees depending on traffic. The Expy used to be around 210 degrees. I haven't towed our trailer up slow, steep passes with the Yukon yet, but I did with the Expy and it got warm. I fully expect the Yukon to do better in the same scenario based on how much cooler it stays when towing at speed.

We recently downsized our travel trailer to a 28' Airstream. Towing that my transmission temps stay pretty low on the highway (150s-160s typically) and I get significantly better fuel economy (11.5mpg vs 8.5mpg with our last trailer). Payload on my XL Denali Reserve is 1,427lb. I've taken some steps to lighten the tongue weight of the Airstream and stay under all the weight capacities of the Yukon. We're close to the limit, but it really tows well. My wife really didn't want to get a truck and lose the third row seats, so this was our solution and it's worked out great so far.

Hey that's some awesome feedback! Thank you for the reply!

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

Question - I found a fully loaded 2021 XL Denali. It has 43k miles. Just looked at the Carfax and it's valve lifters were replaced at 14k miles, a year into it's life. No other major work was done before or after. Is this a stay away from kind of vehicle or is this actually a good thing that it has updated parts?

 

[StephenPT]

I've heard of rigs getting the lifters replaced on one bank of the engine and then going back shortly thereafter to get the other bank replaced. This was earlier on and now I think GM just replaces all of them if there's any failure.

What I've not heard of is someone getting them replaced and then going back in later in the life of the vehicle to get them replaced a second time. Whatever they changed on the lifter design seems to be working...

 

[Marky Dissod]

... found a fully loaded 2021 XL Denali ... 43k ... looked at Carfax ... valve lifters were replaced at 14k miles, a year into it's life ...
Is this a stay away from kind of vehicle or is this actually a good thing that it has updated parts?

IFF Cylinder Confusion was disabled / deleted when the new lifters were installed, only thing left to be concerned about, is that Direct Injection does not keep the back of the valves clean from carbon buildup like Port Injection does, but that comes later.
IFF the engine still has all SEVENTEEN firing orders enabled, I'd be hesitant.
Said the guy planning on keeping his '02 Tahoe with 163k miles for another 10 years ...

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

IFF Cylinder Confusion was disabled / deleted when the new lifters were installed, only thing left to be concerned about, is that Direct Injection does not keep the back of the valves clean from carbon buildup like Port Injection does, but that comes later.
IFF the engine still has all SEVENTEEN firing orders enabled, I'd be hesitant.
Said the guy planning on keeping his '02 Tahoe with 163k miles for another 10 years ...

When you say "IFF Cylinder Confusion was disabled / deleted ", are you talking about by the previous owner by way of an independent shop OR is this something GM did after they replaced the lifters under warranty?

 

[StephenPT]

GM didn't touch the DFM system when the lifters were replaced. Old ones removed, new ones installed and off it goes with the same DFM system.

VERY recently a company called "Trifecta" has said they will re-program your ECM to turn off DFM, but I've only heard of people getting quotes to have it done - nobody has posted on this forum that they've successfully deleted DFM.

The rig you're looking at will have DFM still activated, but I wouldn't let that deter you - there's plenty of 5.3/6.2 owners that have never had an issue with their lifters and there hasn't been anyone say they had failure of lifters a second time.

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

GM didn't touch the DFM system when the lifters were replaced. Old ones removed, new ones installed and off it goes with the same DFM system.

VERY recently a company called "Trifecta" has said they will re-program your ECM to turn off DFM, but I've only heard of people getting quotes to have it done - nobody has posted on this forum that they've successfully deleted DFM.

The rig you're looking at will have DFM still activated, but I wouldn't let that deter you - there's plenty of 5.3/6.2 owners that have never had an issue with their lifters and there hasn't been anyone say they had failure of lifters a second time.

Appreciate it Steve. I'm not letting 2021's deter me, especially the "higher" mileage ones cause it tells me that it's been driven and any issues that would have cropped up at lower miles either never came or were addressed(such as with this one). In fact, I'm more drawn to them since I've heard that their pre-Google infotainment is better. Only thing missing is the digital gauge cluster that 2022+ gets. Also I've seen many 2022's without wireless charging pads or with 2-way lumbar rather than 4. So I'm open to whichever I can get a good deal on.

 

[Marky Dissod]

When you say "IFF Cylinder Confusion was disabled / deleted ", are you talking about by the previous owner by way of an independent shop OR is this something GM did after they replaced the lifters under warranty?

Only the previous owner could answer that question for sure.
That said, if Cylinder Confusion had at least been disabled - disabled and deleted are NOT the same thing - the lifters would last longer regardless pf what type of lifters were used.
I'd think that if the dealer did the repair, Cylinder Confusion would almost certainly be left enabled by the dealer.
Typically Cylinder Confusion is disabled by the owner separate from the dealer being aware of such an improvement.

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

Only the previous owner could answer that question for sure.
That said, if Cylinder Confusion had at least been disabled - disabled and deleted are NOT the same thing - the lifters would last longer regardless pf what type of lifters were used.
I'd think that if the dealer did the repair, Cylinder Confusion would almost certainly be left enabled by the dealer.
Typically Cylinder Confusion is disabled by the owner separate from the dealer being aware of such an improvement.

It appears disabling AFM is not a thing yet with the 2021+ vehicles.

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

Still on the hunt. Looking at a 2022(43k miles on it) that had it's engine replaced @ 29k under warranty in May of 2023. Is an engine replacement an automatic no-buy for you guys or would you still buy knowing that it had it's engine replaced?

 

[Marky Dissod]

Is an engine replacement an automatic no-buy for you guys, or would you still buy knowing that it had its engine replaced?

If it was a brand new engine, no.
If the engine was already used, then that'd require a closer look - but I'd not immediately disqualify it.