Latest oil change/ oil filters

[Larryjb]

I've been doing oil changes on my own vehicles for 30 years now, and just experienced something that disturbed me a little.

I've been using Wix filters now for 15 or 20 years, and as far as I know, they're great filters. On my Tahoe, I noticed that the oil pressure dropped earlier this spring. After I did an oil change I noticed a lot of sludge in the oil after switching to Valvoline synthetic. After changing the oil/filter, the oil pressure returned to normal. A couple of months later, before the next oil change was due, I noticed the oil pressure dropping again. I changed the oil filter again, and the oil pressure returned to normal, once again. Only this time, I didn't have access to a Wix, so I had to use another brand. This time I wasn't losing any oil pressure, or very little, even when it was time to change my oil again this month. When I removed the drain plug, the oil wouldn't even come out right away, and came out in globs! It was all sludged up, but I wasn't losing oil pressure.

I figure that the Wix does not have a bypass valve, so when the filter gets plugged up with sludged oil, the pressure drops giving you warning that something needs attention ASAP. This other brand of filter had a bypass valve and allowed the sludge to pass straight through, all over my valve train and everything.

-------------

I had never thought of the cons to having a bypass valve until today. I will now always keep a stock of a few Wix filters (or ACDelco, or other decent brand that does not have a bypass filter). If I see the pressure dropping, I know to change the oil pronto, even if the usual oil change interval has not yet passed.

 

[08grey]

Run some kreen through your motor before your next oil change.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Z15]

Sludge is not normal, something is wrong. Could be a coolant leaking (head gasket?) into the oil that is causing it to form sludge. Start saving money for a new engine.

You want filter with a bypass valve, without one and the filters get clogged, the engine is starved of oil and will self-destruct.

Where year is the Tahoe? Early 5.3L engines had bad heads, defects in production.


Ps - I know of no oil filters for GM vehicles that DO NOT have a by-pass valve in them.

 

[Larryjb]

According to this, the AcDeleo has no bypass:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=251448&cc=1380372
You may be right about coolant in the oil. However, my head is not included in the TSB. That doesn't mean it's not leaking though.

 

[Larryjb]

I put the coolant pressure tester on Friday evening and it's slowly dropping. It lost about 5-7 lbs overnight. A little of that would have been from the engine cooling, but it had already cooled a couple of hours before putting the tester on. Unfortunately it has been raining tons here, but I cannot see any sign of coolant leaking from the engine area. I haven't yet checked the rear heater core and connections. This could be another possibility for a coolant leak.

I had been pulling a 3500 lb trailer last October, and before that I had pulled the trailer up to Kamloops and back. This involved some pretty steep grades. I should have changed the oil right after the trip, but I just didn't have time. I did change the oil filter, though. Because I seemed to have good oil pressure, I thought I was okay.

 

[Z15]

I could be intake gaskets, the RTV sealant failing.

Problem Description
The intake manifold gasket may develop an external engine oil or coolant leak. In some cases, an internal coolant leak may occur causing coolant to mix with the engine oil. Our technicians tell us that operating the engine with a coolant/oil mix can result in internal engine damage. Replacing the intake manifold gasket should correct these leaks.

(127 people reported this problem)

I recommend you have the oil tested, here is a postage paid kit you can purchase and mail in an oil sample. When you buy this kit, it includes shipping and the test, so no money has to be sent in with the sample.

►Oil Analyzers Test Kit, Postage Pre-Paid

 

[Larryjb]

an oil test kit has been ordered.

If I recall correctly, this 5.3 L has no coolant in the intake. I replaced the IM gasket last winter.

I wonder if the trip pulling a trailer up the Coquihalla damaged the
head gasket or head? Temperatures did rise a little (up to 115 C). I kept the RPMS near 4000 though.

 

[Z15]

What year is it?

 

[Larryjb]

It's a 2002.
My oil pressure was dropping to around 25 or 30 psi this week again so I changed the oil and filter. The oil was fine and not sludged, but the filter was getting plugged a little. After the oil change it was back up to 40 at idle.

From what I'm reading, the oil bypass is built into the oil filter adapter, so the filter does not need the bypass. The filter I was using before may not have been filtering as effectively as the Wix or the ACDelco, so did not get plugged as easily. I cannot remember what brand I used last year, but it wasn't a Fram label.

 

[Z15]

Are you using the correct viscosity oil, e.g. 5W-30? Are you using a name brand oil?

 

[Larryjb]

Valvoline Synthetic 5w30

I purchased the truck privately 2 years ago, so I don't know the long term history.

 

[Larryjb]

I've been looking into this more. Because the bypass is built into the adapter, the oil filter itself has no bypass.

I forgot what oil filter I used last summer, but it was from Canadian Tire. I usually get Wix, but CT does not have Wix so I had to go with a different brand that time. I would not have purchased Fram, I doubt I would have gotten Motomaster. This leaves K&N, Mobil 1, or Quaker State. I'm pretty sure it did not have the welded nut on the end which eliminates the K&N. That leaves Mobil 1 or Quaker State. I suspect I got Mobil 1 which is an "extended performance" filter.

This is where things get interesting. The regular duty oil filters (Wix 51042, ACDelco PF46) have a filtration efficiency in the range of 20-30 microns. None of the "extended performance" filters have a filtration efficiency listed anywhere on their respective websites that I can find. However, they seem to advertise that they can get away with longer service intervals. The only way you could get away with longer service intervals would be to allow better flow as the oil gets dirtier. Either the surface area would have to be greater to collect more particles, or allow some larger particles to pass through the filter. Or, there may be some other way that I'm not familiar with yet.

When I switched to Valvoline synthetic and the Wix 51042 2 years ago, my oil pressure started dropping drastically and I had a cold engine knock that lasted progressively longer. I changed the oil and filter and found the filter was all sludged up inside. After the oil change, my oil pressure returned to normal and was pretty good for the next few months. Then we pulled a 3500 lb trailer to Kamloops which involved some 12% grades. I would hold the engine RPM's around 4000 to keep fluids moving faster to help with cooling. I never actually overheated, but the engine temperatures did rise from the usual 95°C to about 110°C. When this happened, I made every effort to reduce the engine temperatures (turned off the AC, turned on the heat until temperatures dropped). After the trip, the oil pressure had dropped from the normal 40 psi to about 30 psi. Time was short, so I purchased the oil filter from Canadian Tire and only changed the filter. This returned my oil pressure back to the 40 psi. It remained at this 40 psi until Christmas time when I changed the oil.

It was this oil change that I found the really bad sludge. I was shocked that my oil pressure was showing normal with such bad sludge. I has assumed that the Canadian Tire oil filter had a bypass, whereas the Wix and ACDelco have no bypass in the filter. That assumption was incorrect. All filters for the 5.3L (for the 2002) have no bypass. What I think was different is that the oil filter I used was the extended performance filter.

At this time based on what I know, I will not be using any sort of extended performance filter. "Extended Performance", "Heavy Duty" etc may not mean better. Unless some one can teach me otherwise.

As for the source of sludge, it could have been increased oil temperatures on the trip to Kamloops, it could be a head gasket leak allowing coolant in. I have ordered an oil test kit to test the oil. There is also a test kit to test for combustion gases in the coolant. I will see if I can get some one to test that for me, or I might get a kit.

 

[Z15]

Extended performance filters use better media to trap contaminants. Most will use 100% synthetic media or some other proprietary blend of cellulose and synthetic. They also often has more media surface area to capture and hold the contaminates. For instance AMSOIL EA filter are made from patented Donaldson nano-fiber synthetic media.

The filter business is very cutthroat and many low priced filters are made as cheaply as possible to be able to compete in the discount store and auto parts world. A lot of them cover up their inefficiencies with gimmicks like a nut on the end or cardboard end caps as opposed to metai.

https://www.donaldson.com/en-us/ind...nofiber-performance-layer-filter-is-worth-it/

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1289/oil-filter-efficiency

 

[Larryjb]

Any reason why wix will publish filtration efficiency for their standard filters but not for the extended performance filters?

 

[iamdub]

I'm betting your engine is sludged up by the previous owner using low-quality oils and/or too long of oil change intervals and the detergents in the "good" oil, your Valvoline Synthetic, are breaking up the sludge.

My '08 must've had a little build-up in it cuz ever so often, maybe 4-6 times between 5K-mile OCIs, it had a lifter ticking for a few seconds after a cold start. I used Mobil1 for the first change or two after I bought it then Pennzoil Platinum ever since. I can't recall the last time it ticked and the old oil has been coming out noticeably lighter.

Just my theory.

 

[Larryjb]

I'm betting your engine is sludged up by the previous owner using low-quality oils and/or too long of oil change intervals and the detergents in the "good" oil, your Valvoline Synthetic, are breaking up the sludge.

My '08 must've had a little build-up in it cuz ever so often, maybe 4-6 times between 5K-mile OCIs, it had a lifter ticking for a few seconds after a cold start. I used Mobil1 for the first change or two after I bought it then Pennzoil Platinum ever since. I can't recall the last time it ticked and the old oil has been coming out noticeably lighter.

Just my theory.

I agree with this that the sludge is from the previous owner, but I am partly at fault myself. I should have changed the oil right after my Kamloops trip. My Tahoe does not have the oil cooler, so I'm pretty sure the oil got cooked a little even though it was Valvoline synthetic. Either that, or the trip cleaned out a ton of sludge.

I see you're in LA. Cold for you is warm for us! Dry for us is Noah's flood for you!

My current concern is that I'm leaking coolant into the oil. If I am, it can't be much. I don't have any drivability concerns at all. I have an occasional miss that may be a failing coil (I have yet to swap coils to check). If the current sludge is due to a coolant leak, I will have to fix that soon unless I want to be replacing an engine. What shocked me this winter was the sludge I was getting, but the oil pressure was normal. I'm even wondering if the filter media was faulty.

 

[HiHoeSilver]

I've been looking into this more. Because the bypass is built into the adapter, the oil filter itself has no bypass.

I forgot what oil filter I used last summer, but it was from Canadian Tire. I usually get Wix, but CT does not have Wix so I had to go with a different brand that time. I would not have purchased Fram, I doubt I would have gotten Motomaster. This leaves K&N, Mobil 1, or Quaker State. I'm pretty sure it did not have the welded nut on the end which eliminates the K&N. That leaves Mobil 1 or Quaker State. I suspect I got Mobil 1 which is an "extended performance" filter.

This is where things get interesting. The regular duty oil filters (Wix 51042, ACDelco PF46) have a filtration efficiency in the range of 20-30 microns. None of the "extended performance" filters have a filtration efficiency listed anywhere on their respective websites that I can find. However, they seem to advertise that they can get away with longer service intervals. The only way you could get away with longer service intervals would be to allow better flow as the oil gets dirtier. Either the surface area would have to be greater to collect more particles, or allow some larger particles to pass through the filter. Or, there may be some other way that I'm not familiar with yet.

When I switched to Valvoline synthetic and the Wix 51042 2 years ago, my oil pressure started dropping drastically and I had a cold engine knock that lasted progressively longer. I changed the oil and filter and found the filter was all sludged up inside. After the oil change, my oil pressure returned to normal and was pretty good for the next few months. Then we pulled a 3500 lb trailer to Kamloops which involved some 12% grades. I would hold the engine RPM's around 4000 to keep fluids moving faster to help with cooling. I never actually overheated, but the engine temperatures did rise from the usual 95°C to about 110°C. When this happened, I made every effort to reduce the engine temperatures (turned off the AC, turned on the heat until temperatures dropped). After the trip, the oil pressure had dropped from the normal 40 psi to about 30 psi. Time was short, so I purchased the oil filter from Canadian Tire and only changed the filter. This returned my oil pressure back to the 40 psi. It remained at this 40 psi until Christmas time when I changed the oil.

It was this oil change that I found the really bad sludge. I was shocked that my oil pressure was showing normal with such bad sludge. I has assumed that the Canadian Tire oil filter had a bypass, whereas the Wix and ACDelco have no bypass in the filter. That assumption was incorrect. All filters for the 5.3L (for the 2002) have no bypass. What I think was different is that the oil filter I used was the extended performance filter.

At this time based on what I know, I will not be using any sort of extended performance filter. "Extended Performance", "Heavy Duty" etc may not mean better. Unless some one can teach me otherwise.

As for the source of sludge, it could have been increased oil temperatures on the trip to Kamloops, it could be a head gasket leak allowing coolant in. I have ordered an oil test kit to test the oil. There is also a test kit to test for combustion gases in the coolant. I will see if I can get some one to test that for me, or I might get a kit.

Keep us posted on test results.

 

[HiHoeSilver]

I'm betting your engine is sludged up by the previous owner using low-quality oils and/or too long of oil change intervals and the detergents in the "good" oil, your Valvoline Synthetic, are breaking up the sludge.

My '08 must've had a little build-up in it cuz ever so often, maybe 4-6 times between 5K-mile OCIs, it had a lifter ticking for a few seconds after a cold start. I used Mobil1 for the first change or two after I bought it then Pennzoil Platinum ever since. I can't recall the last time it ticked and the old oil has been coming out noticeably lighter.

Just my theory.

Can't remember if we talked about this before but is there some reason you went with the penzoil over the mobil?

 

[iamdub]

Can't remember if we talked about this before but is there some reason you went with the penzoil over the mobil?

As usual- because of some shit I read on BITOG. lol

Fo real, with the hours of reading I did on top-name synthetics on BITOG and a few independent chemical engineering sites, I came across something that made me favor the Pennzoil. I can't recall what it was, but I did my own digging afterward and concluded the same. I'm sure it was something with the detergents package in it or maybe it had an extra additive(s) that Mobil didn't. Both are great oils and any synthetic is worlds better than conventional.

What I HAVE concluded from my experience is that quality oils with cleaning agents actually can remove sludge. I bought mine with 147K miles and it was very well-maintaned but must have had a small amount of build-up in the lifters, which the AFM lifters are sensitive to, and that's wat caused the ticking at startup. I'm inclined to believe that the original owner had the oil changed regularly, but used regular oil and probably had it done at the quick-lube places. Not mistreatment, but still cut-rate oils. I noticed reduced ticking spells after my first oil change with it using M1 and 1-2 spells after the second change with M1. I switched and have been using Valvoline Platinum since the 3rd oil change. After that 3rd change I might have had 1 or 2 spells but there have been none since and I changed the oil last at 185K. I'm sure I would've had the same results with no ticking and cleaner drained oil even if I had stayed with M1.

 

[iamdub]

I agree with this that the sludge is from the previous owner, but I am partly at fault myself. I should have changed the oil right after my Kamloops trip. My Tahoe does not have the oil cooler, so I'm pretty sure the oil got cooked a little even though it was Valvoline synthetic. Either that, or the trip cleaned out a ton of sludge.

I see you're in LA. Cold for you is warm for us! Dry for us is Noah's flood for you!

My current concern is that I'm leaking coolant into the oil. If I am, it can't be much. I don't have any drivability concerns at all. I have an occasional miss that may be a failing coil (I have yet to swap coils to check). If the current sludge is due to a coolant leak, I will have to fix that soon unless I want to be replacing an engine. What shocked me this winter was the sludge I was getting, but the oil pressure was normal. I'm even wondering if the filter media was faulty.

Don't beat yourself up. Maybe I'm just overly optimistic, but I think you're cleaning your engine of the PO's neglect one oil change at a time. One of the benefits of synthetic oil is that it doesn't "cook" and gunk up with higher-than-normal operating temps like conventional. 110°C is pretty warm, but I still don't see it causing enough coking to create chunks big enough to block the flow of oil out of the pan during an oil change. I'm still convinced this is "old gunk" and your quality oil is breaking it up. Of course, a lot of this is gonna get caught up in the filter and probably stop it up so that the oil bypasses the filter. But, after enough oil change cycles with new filters, you're bound to eventually catch it all. Another point about the oil pressure: There's a screen under the oil pressure sensor that is known to get clogged, causing erratic and/or low gauge readings.

If your coolant loss is that slow, I don't see how it can be enough to remain in the oil and gunk it up. It'd burn off before that happened. Enough coolant in the oil to cause gunking should be visible by the classic "milkshake" appearance.

Continue with your oil changes, maybe even increase the frequency of them and maybe even try a few engine flush methods (Kreen, MMO, trans fluid...). Pop out the oil pressure sensor and clean that screen. I'm thinking you'll eventually get the chunks out and will have more stable oil pressure and maybe even a quieter running engine.