Will a lithium battery ruin my alternator?

[homesick]

Gotta say Doobie, them little jump packs from Amazon or wherever are worth their weight brother…. Small enough to throw under the seat or in the console but powerful enough to start just about everything…. I bought one for each car/truck in my house. On top of that they have outputs for phone chargers and some have a flashlight and even a compass… 5-6 years ago my regular jump pack bit the dust so i was looking at replacing the battery in it but i found them little things…. Good **** dude

How long do their batteries last between needing recharging?

joe

 

[PG01]

How long do their batteries last between needing recharging?

joe

Haven’t used or recharged the one i bought last august and its on 95% the one I bought in 2019 discharges faster but its been used and abused multiple times and my son likes to use it for his quad, dirt bikes and my lawnmower then not tell me and not plug it in. There are diff amperages the older one i have is 2000a and the newest is 2500 i also have a 1000a. Pretty durable little boosters imo

 

[homesick]

Haven’t used or recharged the one i bought last august and its on 95% the one I bought in 2019 discharges faster but its been used and abused multiple times and my son likes to use it for his quad, dirt bikes and my lawnmower then not tell me and not plug it in. There are diff amperages the older one i have is 2000a and the newest is 2500 i also have a 1000a. Pretty durable little boosters imo

Thanks.

joe

 

[opfor2]

Your charging system was not designed to charge lithium or AGM batteries. The AGM does not like to see voltages pushed through it above 15 volts which the factory system does. This shortens the life of the AGM, meaning they work just fine and don't last any longer generally speaking than a lead acid battery. The Body Control Module controls alternator output.

Dual batteries ought to not only be the same, they ought to be the same age to get the best performance out of them.

Why do you want a lithium battery?

I didn't know that AGM batteries are also not recommended on out vehicles. I guess I'll stick with the old fashion flooded batteries.

 

[swathdiver]

I didn't know that AGM batteries are also not recommended on out vehicles. I guess I'll stick with the old fashion flooded batteries.

Yes, this is true for the GMT900 platform vehicles. A quick search shows me that the K2s also use Lead Acid batteries and the T1s switched to AGM batteries.

 

[kbuskill]

Yes, this is true for the GMT900 platform vehicles. A quick search shows me that the K2s also use Lead Acid batteries and the T1s switched to AGM batteries.

I just had to replace my Optima Red Top at just over 5yrs of use. It was still working OK but when under the hood I noticed the top starting to bulge so I didn't want to take a chance.

This time I replaced it with a SuperStart Platinum AGM battery from O'Reilly's. It has a 4yr warranty which is better than the Optima's 3yr warranty.

I have always had good luck with the AGM batteries in my Burb. I seem to consistently get 5+ years out of them, even in the Florida heat.

Obviously YMMV.

This is the first time I have heard anyone say that AGM isn't recommended for our trucks.

As for lithium, I almost pulled the trigger on one for my Burb but decided against it because I couldn't wait for it to deliver. Most of the lithium batteries that are designed for a vehicle have a built in battery maintenance system which regulates the charge and discharge as well as heat and such. The better ones are quite expensive but perhaps worth it. There is a company called Dakota, I believe that offers an 11yr warranty.

I had one on my motorcycle that absolutely made a night and day difference in the way the bike started. The lithium had much higher CAs than an equivalent sized lead acid battery and was about a quarter of the weight as well.

 

[Joel_S]

There’s a lot of bad information in this thread and that’s all I’m going to say on that.

Battery wise, I have ran SLA, AGM, and Lithium in my 07, and 16 Yukons. No issues with any. 07 currently has an antigravity lithium in it with zero issues. I have 4 years on another antigravity battery in my TDi Audi. That car is programmed to think it has an AGM battery and zero issues there. They are expensive but direct drop in replacements. And have built in jump starter.

I had more issues with my Yukon before I bypassed the ****** RVC charging system. With it bypassed the truck runs fantastic and no issues with any battery.

 

[Doubeleive]

I didn't know that AGM batteries are also not recommended on out vehicles. I guess I'll stick with the old fashion flooded batteries.

I would take that with a grain of salt I have ran AGM's for around 20 years, no problems unless it went bad like any battery

 

[j91z28d1]

I only skimmed the thread but what brand lithium battery did you buy. a good quality one will have a in board bms to handle. everything and work like a normal battery. that said I wouldn't pair with with a different type of battery.


I don't believe anyone even sells a lithium battery for a car that isn't designed for replacement of a normal battery.

 

[j91z28d1]

A key difference between AGM and Lithium (just because of their chemistries - not done on purpose) is that AGM has a higher resistance to current flow while being charged and 'naturally limits' the current during charge. Whereas a lithium battery naturally allows huge current flow during charge - and can possibly over-stress you're alternator as it it will take all it can get. This youtube illustrates the issues.

I'd not put 'any' Lithium in a vehicle. Maybe there's one that is specific for 'regular vehicles/alternators'. Or you can add regulation to protect a regular alternator.

There are other issues such 1) Do not mix battery types and 2) Ambient temps can be a problem with Lihtium vs AGM but the main 'mysterious issue' is the one of current flow while charging.

These "Solar" oriented DC to DC chargers specifically control/limit the current from the alternator -> general purpose lithium batteries and is partly why they exist as a product category. *There's also the charge curve - e.g. absorb and float but that more of a nit than the main issue of current regulation to protect the alternator.

this kind of information is for guys ordering lithium cells from China and DIY up themselves a car battery out of then.


named brand lithium car battery will do all that for you, by regulating input current, handling low temperature by not changing it at all below 32deg and going into full fail safe if it over heats enough. these are also li-fe. not Li-on. thia chemistry is safe and doesn't burn up like other lithium.


I've already seen some sodium car batteries showing up on the China sites. I'm very interested in those.

 

[Doubeleive]

my previous comments were based on the presumption of the use of a off the shelf lithium battery
my alternator would blow that $950 antigravity battery up, I have clamped it at 230amps (peak), that antigravity battery says right on it, DO NOT CHARGE OVER 20AMPS OR 14.4V
and I know my alternator can and sometimes does put out 15v+ so.......
so, some type of voltage regulator would be required.

 

[MarvinVR]

NO NO NO NO AND NO

1. Charging voltage mismatch.
   Car alternators are tuned for lead-acid chemistry — usually about 14.2 to 14.7 volts charging output. Lithium batteries need tighter control, typically around 14.0 volts max and a very specific cut-off once fully charged. If the alternator keeps pushing current after the lithium pack is full, the cells can overcharge, heat up, and degrade quickly (or, worst case, enter thermal runaway).
2. No built-in balancing.
   Lead-acid cells naturally equalize when charging; lithium cells don’t. Without a battery management system (BMS) to monitor and balance cell voltages, one cell can overcharge while another undercharges. That imbalance can ruin the pack or cause dangerous voltage spikes.
3. No trickle or float tolerance.
   Alternators — through the vehicle’s voltage regulator — tend to float charge a lead-acid battery once it’s full. Lithium cells hate float charging. They need to stop charging once they hit their setpoint and then rest.
4. Cold weather problem.
   Lithium batteries can’t safely be charged below freezing. Alternators don’t know this — they’ll keep pumping current into the battery even at subzero temps, which can cause plating and permanent damage to the lithium cells.
5. Electrical system stability.
   Lithium batteries have lower internal resistance, so they accept current fast and can confuse older alternator regulators, leading to voltage hunting or alternator burnout.

You can use lithium batteries safely in a vehicle if you install a proper DC-DC charger or lithium-compatible alternator controller that regulates current and voltage according to lithium’s needs. EVs and camper conversions do this all the time — but those systems are engineered for it.


If someone just swaps a lithium pack into a regular alternator car thinking “lighter weight, more capacity,” they’re gambling with both their electrical system and possibly a small fireball.

 

[MarvinVR]

my previous comments were based on the presumption of the use of a off the shelf lithium battery
my alternator would blow that $950 antigravity battery up, I have clamped it at 230amps (peak), that antigravity battery says right on it, DO NOT CHARGE OVER 20AMPS OR 14.4V
and I know my alternator can and sometimes does put out 15v+ so.......
so, some type of voltage regulator would be required.

1. Charging voltage mismatch.
   Car alternators are tuned for lead-acid chemistry — usually about 14.2 to 14.7 volts charging output. Lithium batteries need tighter control, typically around 14.0 volts max and a very specific cut-off once fully charged. If the alternator keeps pushing current after the lithium pack is full, the cells can overcharge, heat up, and degrade quickly (or, worst case, enter thermal runaway).
2. No built-in balancing.
   Lead-acid cells naturally equalize when charging; lithium cells don’t. Without a battery management system (BMS) to monitor and balance cell voltages, one cell can overcharge while another undercharges. That imbalance can ruin the pack or cause dangerous voltage spikes.
3. No trickle or float tolerance.
   Alternators — through the vehicle’s voltage regulator — tend to float charge a lead-acid battery once it’s full. Lithium cells hate float charging. They need to stop charging once they hit their setpoint and then rest.
4. Cold weather problem.
   Lithium batteries can’t safely be charged below freezing. Alternators don’t know this — they’ll keep pumping current into the battery even at subzero temps, which can cause plating and permanent damage to the lithium cells.
5. Electrical system stability.
   Lithium batteries have lower internal resistance, so they accept current fast and can confuse older alternator regulators, leading to voltage hunting or alternator burnout.

You can use lithium batteries safely in a vehicle if you install a proper DC-DC charger or lithium-compatible alternator controller that regulates current and voltage according to lithium’s needs. EVs and camper conversions do this all the time — but those systems are engineered for it.


If someone just swaps a lithium pack into a regular alternator car thinking “lighter weight, more capacity,” they’re gambling with both their electrical system and possibly a small fireball.

 

[j91z28d1]

my previous comments were based on the presumption of the use of a off the shelf lithium battery
my alternator would blow that $950 antigravity battery up, I have clamped it at 230amps (peak), that antigravity battery says right on it, DO NOT CHARGE OVER 20AMPS OR 14.4V
and I know my alternator can and sometimes does put out 15v+ so.......
so, some type of voltage regulator would be required.

I missed your post. these are commonly used with standard alternators all the time at high rpm without any issues. they have a bms(battery monitoring system) inside them that handles all that and more.


we have a account with Optima, so I have personally installed 2 orange top lithium batteries in standard equipment. regular Ford v10 gas engines with normal alternators. I have watched them thru the phone app charge from 30% to 98% at over a 100amps. the battery doesn't even get warm. that the big part of lithium, low internal resistance allow big amp discharge and much higher charge rates than lead acid. the internal bms handles everything.


i promise you these batteies are designed direct drop in for standard batterys. the next battery I install in my. c6 will be a lithium, probably Optima only because I get a small discount, but I would trust anti gravity just as much.

 

[j91z28d1]

NO NO NO NO AND NO

1. Charging voltage mismatch.
   Car alternators are tuned for lead-acid chemistry — usually about 14.2 to 14.7 volts charging output. Lithium batteries need tighter control, typically around 14.0 volts max and a very specific cut-off once fully charged. If the alternator keeps pushing current after the lithium pack is full, the cells can overcharge, heat up, and degrade quickly (or, worst case, enter thermal runaway).
2. No built-in balancing.
   Lead-acid cells naturally equalize when charging; lithium cells don’t. Without a battery management system (BMS) to monitor and balance cell voltages, one cell can overcharge while another undercharges. That imbalance can ruin the pack or cause dangerous voltage spikes.
3. No trickle or float tolerance.
   Alternators — through the vehicle’s voltage regulator — tend to float charge a lead-acid battery once it’s full. Lithium cells hate float charging. They need to stop charging once they hit their setpoint and then rest.
4. Cold weather problem.
   Lithium batteries can’t safely be charged below freezing. Alternators don’t know this — they’ll keep pumping current into the battery even at subzero temps, which can cause plating and permanent damage to the lithium cells.
5. Electrical system stability.
   Lithium batteries have lower internal resistance, so they accept current fast and can confuse older alternator regulators, leading to voltage hunting or alternator burnout.

You can use lithium batteries safely in a vehicle if you install a proper DC-DC charger or lithium-compatible alternator controller that regulates current and voltage according to lithium’s needs. EVs and camper conversions do this all the time — but those systems are engineered for it.


If someone just swaps a lithium pack into a regular alternator car thinking “lighter weight, more capacity,” they’re gambling with both their electrical system and possibly a small fireball.

I promise you anyone else looking for lithium batterys. the ones sold by brands like anti gravity and Optima are perfectly fine as a drop in replacement for your standard battery. I'll highlight this for you and anyone else. no one sells a lithium battery without a bms inside of it!! you would have to go into Alibaba and order cells and build your own diy. and even then the bms is 20$ and pop up asks if you want one.


literally no one is going to go into a China website, buy 4 cells and build an enclosure themselves without any research at all into adding a bms to it. all your scare tactics are ridiculous.


even then if you used lifepo4 cells, all they would do is smoke and die if you over charged/over heated them somehow or shorten their life if you charged them aggressively below 0deg. but that's more of a science experiment than anything. at this point that you would be using sodium cells instead of lithium anyways.

 

[j91z28d1]

on that note the big selling point of these batteries besides weight and high discharge rate if needed for fast high current discharge, say a cranking a big block high compression engine, or I guess the audio guys do them as well, but I am not in that world at all. is really that they protect themselves in every way. they are fully protected, they won't allow themselves to be fully drained. ours cut off at 30% charge. we personally have 3 ground power units that are from France and have canbus issues from going from their 24v systems to our 12v and Ford engines. something in the software gets randomly hung up and doesn't go into sleep correctly. after 2 years of them trying to fix it and changing out multiple batteries from being flat dead so even put 1200$ recover charger won't bring the lead acid battery's back to useful. we installed these orange tops for the low voltage shut off. there's a physical button on the battery, or just open the phone app and it gives you access to that 30% to start the engine when found as a no start. it then charges fully in less than 15mins of running the engine and bam, back in service.

the odd sideeffect has been we've only had to use it once, seems the higher voltage the lithium hold, up around mid 14s when shut down vs a lead acid dropping to 12 or lower since they have a 5amp load after shut down for a few mins. has kept the electronics happy and canbus goes into sleep all but once..
this would be very useful for the guys with trucks they don't drive every few days, no tender is needed. I have to keep my c6 plugged in to c-tech all the time when parked or it eats batterys.

all the info copy and pasted into this thread is so outdated and leaves out what battery chemistry you're working with but it's laid out and written so well it reeks of fake news trying to scare people away from something more than inform them. my only guess is most of it was honestly geared towards 15 years ago guys using rc car battery packs to build 12v car battery's. and that is lipo (lithium polymer) which while being a very energy dense battery chemistry for light weight rc cars and planes, it's never used outside of rc because it can be dangerous. it will flame out from thermal run away. but even tesla doesn't use that chemistry in their cars. they use lithium ion cells. (more like your coredles impact) which are also never ever used in a drop in 12v car battery replacement. right now it's always lifepo4 (ithium iron phosphate) while not very energy dense for say an electric car they work fine as a cranking or deep cycle battery and are basically harmless. I'd much rather be around one of them failing then a lead acid blowing up in my face. which absolutely can happen and has to many people. this isn't a concern at all with proper built lithiums.


if anyone wants a bit more info on different chemistry. this link looks decent

What is a LiFePO4 Battery? A Technical Overview | Renogy US https://share.google/orGoxQe6DkpdUBnxc


but remember sodium is coming. it's going to be even more safe and cheap. I currently have a set of sodium in my hybrid battery pack and they have worked well so far. I believe at some point it will over take lifepo4 in the common applications. but until then, enjoy zero maintenance 10 year warranty batteries what are so light it feels like a empty plastic case if you can justify 800$.

 

[SpareParts]

A few years ago i had a puffed Lipo pack. Lipo is known to combust when you least expect it, so i wanted to see what happens when they burst into flames.
I charged the puffed pack up to full charge. Set it in the backyard and put a staple through it. Took about a minute and went up in flames, sounded like a jet engine exhaust for about two minutes then died down. Extream test for sure but after seeing what it was capable of i got rid of all the Lipo packs i had.
It's amazing how much energy and deadly smoke is in them little Lipo pack's.

 

[j91z28d1]

A few years ago i had a puffed Lipo pack. Lipo is known to combust when you least expect it, so i wanted to see what happens when they burst into flames.
I charged the puffed pack up to full charge. Set it in the backyard and put a staple through it. Took about a minute and went up in flames, sounded like a jet engine exhaust for about two minutes then died down. Extream test for sure but after seeing what it was capable of i got rid of all the Lipo packs i had.
It's amazing how much energy and deadly smoke is in them little Lipo pack's.

I had a buddy have a pack go from over heating in a 8th scale truggy. he had geared it to do top end runs on a 6s. trying do 80 mph in a big heavy truggy was not the smartest haha.

he was able to rip the body off and pull the battery out while it was going off. saved the car but burnt his finger on the wires. I wouldn't say it's any reason to get scared and throw them away thou. I have a hobby room full of them. Just don't over charge them and/or physically damage the pouch cells inside your house haha. the off road racing classes to require hard case batteries so that doesn't happen turning a race crash.
I do have mine is a lipo bag. but not all of them. luckily they don't blow up from not being used haha.


but again. we gotta remind people. those youtube videos you see of this are not what's in your car. there's many many different types of lithium batterys and we should probably explain the differences instead of just chasing click bait videos of something you'll never be around catching fire.

 

[Doug118]

1. Charging voltage mismatch.
   Car alternators are tuned for lead-acid chemistry — usually about 14.2 to 14.7 volts charging output. Lithium batteries need tighter control, typically around 14.0 volts max and a very specific cut-off once fully charged. If the alternator keeps pushing current after the lithium pack is full, the cells can overcharge, heat up, and degrade quickly (or, worst case, enter thermal runaway).
2. No built-in balancing.
   Lead-acid cells naturally equalize when charging; lithium cells don’t. Without a battery management system (BMS) to monitor and balance cell voltages, one cell can overcharge while another undercharges. That imbalance can ruin the pack or cause dangerous voltage spikes.
3. No trickle or float tolerance.
   Alternators — through the vehicle’s voltage regulator — tend to float charge a lead-acid battery once it’s full. Lithium cells hate float charging. They need to stop charging once they hit their setpoint and then rest.
4. Cold weather problem.
   Lithium batteries can’t safely be charged below freezing. Alternators don’t know this — they’ll keep pumping current into the battery even at subzero temps, which can cause plating and permanent damage to the lithium cells.
5. Electrical system stability.
   Lithium batteries have lower internal resistance, so they accept current fast and can confuse older alternator regulators, leading to voltage hunting or alternator burnout.

You can use lithium batteries safely in a vehicle if you install a proper DC-DC charger or lithium-compatible alternator controller that regulates current and voltage according to lithium’s needs. EVs and camper conversions do this all the time — but those systems are engineered for it.


If someone just swaps a lithium pack into a regular alternator car thinking “lighter weight, more capacity,” they’re gambling with both their electrical system and possibly a small fireball.

Every single part of this is BAD info. I don’t even know where to begin with dissecting it but every single point is false

 

[MarvinVR]

Every single part of this is BAD info. I don’t even know where to begin with dissecting it but every single point is false

I got that from certainsource--I dont know enough to verify it, I fact, it came from a company that makes motorized wheelchirs, duck boats, all terrain cyces and even golf carts. They have lead acid and lithium, and last year I wanted to convert my acid batts to lithium and thats what I was told. Please explain why its bad info--Id like to earn. Obviously this is an often misunderstood area.