What type of metal is the exhaust?

[Matthew Jeschke]

I am curious what type of metal is the exhaust on my truck (2001 chevy tahoe)? I assumed it's stainless... but what grade? I need to know what welding wire will work with it.

I welded my exhaust a few times broke every time. My neighbor sold me a once used welder, helmet, gloves, etc. It's the cheapo from harbor freight HERE. He just needed it for a small job then sold it to me for $75. Figured it would be fun to learn with if nothing else. He came over and helped me weld my exhaust after my welds broke a couple times. He thought his weld would hold but it broke as well.

I'm starting to wonder if we have the wrong welding wire. I don't know what the wire is I currently have but it's a copper color spool from Harbor Freight. Looks like this HERE the label is long gone on the spool so I cannot identify it.

 

[swathdiver]

Stainless with aluminized stainless muffler and tailpipe so says the 2002 Suburban brochure. Don't know which type but I reckon it's 304 or close to it.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Awesome thanks! Do you know much about welding? I'm not sure what welding wire would work with that.

 

[Just Fishing]

Flux i assume?
Otherwise you need 100% argon.


Flux
https://www.amazon.com/YESWELDER-Stainless-E308LFC-030-Diameter-2-Pound/dp/B09YT2VBYG
Read reviews, you might need a different diameter maybe? IDNK.

 

[PPV_2018]

Most muffler shops use copper coated mild steel wire (aka, ER70S-2 or ER70S-6, as pictured in your link) via MIG with ARG/Co2 Mix when doing exhausts. Some muffler shops use RG45 or RG60 (non-copper coated) mild steel rods with an oxy/fuel torch if they can get away with it. Never heard of someone using stainless wire or rods on an exhaust.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Gotchya, I really have no clue when it comes to welding. I had an exhaust shop weld on a o2 bung for my wideband. Their bead really melted the bung and exhaust pipe together well. It flowed together nicely. I'm probably using the wrong words all over the place but hopefully makes since what I say.

I work my welder a bit then pause (I was told isn't powerful enough to do a continuous weld). Probably say 15 seconds of welding then 15 second pause. However, the parts I'm mating never seem to meld together so to speak. It kind of sort of tacks the surface together with lots of for chicken poop (won't let me use other word) all over the place. It doesn't really get the two pieces to fully melt together... I got idea to try and burn completely through a piece of test exhaust pipe and it wouldn't burn through on full power.

Is my welder just that garbage? Talked with several other people who weld and they said it should handle the job regardless. IDK?

I really have no clue.

 

[strutaeng]

Yeah, not sure what muffler shops but probably not actually stainless steel filler wire because their welds do rust...which is not big deal TBH.

Now, I will say is that chintzy welder is garbage. That welder is just a simple transformer and it lists it as AC power source. Flux cored (and GMAW or "mig") are both DC welding processes. Wrong welder. I don't even know why they sell that thing. SMH.

You can get a little inverter welder that actually works well. I bought a little Century brand 120V for little misc. jobs around the house so I don't have to drag my 240V mig/flux cored large welder around. I've never welded exhaust though...but I would recommend mig for exhaust. Flux core is meant for thicker metals.

 

[PPV_2018]

Gotchya, I really have no clue when it comes to welding. I had an exhaust shop weld on a o2 bung for my wideband. Their bead really melted the bung and exhaust pipe together well. It flowed together nicely. I'm probably using the wrong words all over the place but hopefully makes since what I say.

I work my welder a bit then pause (I was told isn't powerful enough to do a continuous weld). Probably say 15 seconds of welding then 15 second pause. However, the parts I'm mating never seem to meld together so to speak. It kind of sort of tacks the surface together with lots of for chicken poop (won't let me use other word) all over the place. It doesn't really get the two pieces to fully melt together... I got idea to try and burn completely through a piece of test exhaust pipe and it wouldn't burn through on full power.

Is my welder just that garbage? Talked with several other people who weld and they said it should handle the job regardless. IDK?

I really have no clue.

laying a couple of beads down and stopping is pretty common tbh. A “continuous” weld you are not going to achieve with virtually any welding machine, most welding machines usually don’t have 100% duty cycle unless it’s a $35,000+ diesel powered welder/generator. So that’s not your issue.

No offense, but it may be more of a pilot not the plane type of deal if you’re burning through and getting spatter and popping. You probably have your amps turned up too high relative to the metal thickness you’re working with. There’s also a possibility of the wrong wire and equipment being used as well and to add to that:

Now, I will say is that chintzy welder is garbage. That welder is just a simple transformer and it lists it as AC power source. Flux cored (and GMAW or "mig") are both DC welding processes.

^THIS.

Harbor freight welders are complete crap. Can you weld with them, sure.. but it’s not going to provide the most desireable results.. usually. Also, personally, i do not like flux cored welding. It has its advantages, but really the main advantage is probably being able to use it in windy conditions. IMO nothing protects the weld pool the way shielding gases do. Also, FWIW, A/C can be used with GMAW for certain applications.

My suggestion to OP is play around laying beads on scrap metals that are a similar thickness to exhaust pipes, that way you can figure out what wire speed and voltage you need to be at.

i promise you muffler shops are not using stainless welding filler unless it’s the bosses custom restomod ‘49 ford or ‘57 Chevy or something.. they are using ER70S-6 wire with argon/co2 gas.

 

[strutaeng]

Flux core welding (FCAW) has a bad rap with automotive guys, but there's nothing wrong with it, actually.

In fact, it's WIDELY used and industry standard in structural steel fabrication. Think big 1 1/2" thick base plates welded to heavy columns or plate girders. FCAW has excellent deposition rates and ***********. There's actually two types of flux core welding FCAW-G and FCAW-S. The G still requires shielding gas, but has greater deposition rates. Ideal for high production in fabrication shop use. The self-shielding or S is better for field welding where you may get a cross wind.

That's not here nor there.

Edit: p-en-etration got censored out! *********** WTF! LMAO

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Certainly it's the pilot lol I SUCK. That said my neighbor with a lifetime of experience couldn't made a weld that held with that machine on my exhaust either. His welds didn't look too different from mine. It's hard for me to explain, the materials never melts together?

I also was trying to get it to burn through something as I couldn't figure out why the materials wouldn't melt / it wouldn't lay a bead or puddle. I just got mostly surface stuff like chicken $h1t. I couldn't get it to melt through anything in my test attempts let alone on the parts I was trying to weld on either the high or the low setting (it only has two power options).

I'll look at an inverter welder. Is it this one HERE ? Guy at parts store said he had a chepo Lincoln welder he felt was similar to mine. He really thought mine should cut the mustard but the Lincoln base model must be far superior?

I have a 220v plug in my garage as well, is there a reasonable 220v wire feed welder? I'm not sure I can afford / want to get into the gas stuff yet. It's nice and I fiddled with it years ago but bit more than I want for my little jobs.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[tom3]

The parts being welded have to be really clean and shiny bare steel, crud of any kind will pretty much make for a lousy weld. If the welder will lay a bead it should have enough *********** to stick exhaust tubing.

 

[PPV_2018]

Flux core welding (FCAW) has a bad rap with automotive guys, but there's nothing wrong with it, actually.

In fact, it's WIDELY used and industry standard in structural steel fabrication. Think big 1 1/2" thick base plates welded to heavy columns or plate girders. FCAW has excellent deposition rates and ***********. There's actually two types of flux core welding FCAW-G and FCAW-S. The G still requires shielding gas, but has greater deposition rates. Ideal for high production in fabrication shop use. The self-shielding or S is better for field welding where you may get a cross wind.

That's not here nor there.

Edit: p-en-etration got censored out! *********** WTF! LMAO

You’re right, you’re right. That’s 100% true that there’s both self shielding and gas shielded flux-cored welding, so sorry for my misleading statement.

When it comes to structural fabrication FCAW definitely has its place, though in even in today’s age SMAW still plays a big roll in structural as well. In fact I’d wager to say that for structural welding for real thick metals SMAW is probably king, though in the most basic of terms, one could argue that SMAW is basically FCAW-S in electrode form lol.

Again, i was just saying *personally* I prefer solid wire and gas. Argon provides excellent shielding from the atmosphere and co2 is amazing for p*en*etration (yeah wtf lol) .. but that’s not to say that FCAW doesn’t have advantages.. it certainly does in various applications. Though, i digress..


So back on topic,

I'll look at an inverter welder. Is it this one HERE ? Guy at parts store said he had a chepo Lincoln welder he felt was similar to mine. He really thought mine should cut the mustard but the Lincoln base model must be far superior?

I have a 220v plug in my garage as well, is there a reasonable 220v wire feed welder? I'm not sure I can afford / want to get into the gas stuff yet. It's nice and I fiddled with it years ago but bit more than I want for my little jobs.

My opinion, again, just my own opinion but I never recommend welders that are flux only. Even if you don’t want to mess with gas, I recommend having a machine that is gas capable that way it is there should you ever need it/decide to start going the gas route.

Also, you’ve got to be careful with “Lincoln” because the “Lincoln” machines that are sold at northern tool and , etc, are NOT built to the same spec as commercial Lincoln outlets. Not saying they’re bad, but think of it like a repackaged auto battery.

Also, nowadays they make machines there are 110 *AND* 220 capable by means of an adapter plug. Those machines are a great investment in terms of versatility, and I’ve seen gas/flux capable, multiprocess, 110/220 machines in the $1000 range.

 

[PPV_2018]

That said my neighbor with a lifetime of experience couldn't made a weld that held with that machine on my exhaust either. His welds didn't look too different from mine. It's hard for me to explain, the materials never melts together?

Lol, I’m gonna say something that sounds kinda funny, but a lifetime of experience doesn’t necessarily mean they know what they’re doing … NO offense.. LOL


E: Sorry for double post, i thought they would merge together

 

[strutaeng]

You’re right, you’re right. That’s 100% true that there’s both self shielding and gas shielded flux-cored welding, so sorry for my misleading statement.

When it comes to structural fabrication FCAW definitely has its place, though in even in today’s age SMAW still plays a big roll in structural as well. In fact I’d wager to say that for structural welding for real thick metals SMAW is probably king, though in the most basic of terms, one could argue that SMAW is basically FCAW-S in electrode form lol.

Again, i was just saying *personally* I prefer solid wire and gas. Argon provides excellent shielding from the atmosphere and co2 is amazing for p*en*etration (yeah wtf lol) .. but that’s not to say that FCAW doesn’t have advantages.. it certainly does in various applications. Though, i digress..


So back on topic,



My opinion, again, just my own opinion but I never recommend welders that are flux only. Even if you don’t want to mess with gas, I recommend having a machine that is gas capable that way it is there should you ever need it/decide to start going the gas route.

Ya, I agree 100%. SMAW is still KING on most field ******** for structural steel projects I've worked on.

You sound like you have done some of this work before? I've only dealt with general contractors who work with steel erectors for buildings... stuff like that.

 

[PPV_2018]

Ya, I agree 100%. SMAW is still KING on most field ******** for structural steel projects I've worked on.

You sound like you have done some of this work before? I've only dealt with general contractors who work with steel erectors for buildings... stuff like that.

I am not a welder by trade, *but*, 15 years this august in the welding & gas industry, I’ve seen and know a thing or two

I’ve mostly only hobby welded myself, but have dibbled and dabbled with a little bit of everything except TIG. I actually specialize in gases and their properties, but have done a considerable amount of welding specific research and field testing in the scope of my career. Also I’ve dealt with a very broad range of industries up close and personal which allows me to speak on things like this particular topic. Not claiming to be a know it all expert but i am pretty confident in this field.

 

[swathdiver]

Awesome thanks! Do you know much about welding? I'm not sure what welding wire would work with that.

Nope, always wanted to learn but have many family and friends that do it so I don't have to.

 

[strutaeng]

@Matthew Jeschke that's the same little welder I was talking about. I believe HF has a similar model in the Titanium series and may be cheaper. However, I would side with @PPV_2018 that a welder that has flux core and mig would be more versatile in the long run. Mig for exhaust work for sure.

Have you considered taking your truck to a muffler shop? My 06 Suburban had these obnoxiously loud mufflers when I first bought. They were friggin loud! It took me a while, but I was able to buy a used OEM muffler (2500 SUV mufflers are apparently different) and took it to my nearest muffler shop. They charged me $100, but money well spent in my opinion.

A mig welder with a shielding gas tank outfit is going to run at least $500, even used. But if you know you are going to use it for other projects, then by all means, buy a welder.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

My opinion, again, just my own opinion but I never recommend welders that are flux only. Even if you don’t want to mess with gas, I recommend having a machine that is gas capable that way it is there should you ever need it/decide to start going the gas route.

Also, you’ve got to be careful with “Lincoln” because the “Lincoln” machines that are sold at northern tool and , etc, are NOT built to the same spec as commercial Lincoln outlets. Not saying they’re bad, but think of it like a repackaged auto battery.

Also, nowadays they make machines there are 110 *AND* 220 capable by means of an adapter plug. Those machines are a great investment in terms of versatility, and I’ve seen gas/flux capable, multiprocess, 110/220 machines in the $1000 range.

Is there a welder as such you recommend? $1000 is a bit beyond my budget to weld my old exhaust together. Unless there's a used deal I can score.

@Matthew Jeschke that's the same little welder I was talking about. I believe HF has a similar model in the Titanium series and may be cheaper. However, I would side with @PPV_2018 that a welder that has flux core and mig would be more versatile in the long run. Mig for exhaust work for sure.

Have you considered taking your truck to a muffler shop? My 06 Suburban had these obnoxiously loud mufflers when I first bought. They were friggin loud! It took me a while, but I was able to buy a used OEM muffler (2500 SUV mufflers are apparently different) and took it to my nearest muffler shop. They charged me $100, but money well spent in my opinion.

A mig welder with a shielding gas tank outfit is going to run at least $500, even used. But if you know you are going to use it for other projects, then by all means, buy a welder.

I have considered an exhuast shop. I got one in mind actually but really looking to learn and make a weld that will hold if I can without spending too much on equipment. It doesn't have to look pretty just hold and not leak.

 

[strutaeng]

Do you have Northern Tool in Arizona? The Hobart welders have always been pretty good. They are like economical version of Miller (same parent company), but geared more towards farmer, ranchers and DIYers. I bought an Hobart Ironman 210 (got discontinued years ago) back in 2009, and has served me very well. I have definitely gotten my money's worth out of that tool. I was like, "buy once cry once" when it came to that purchase.

The 210MPV is an excellent, transformer based machine. That would have plenty of flexibility to learn and grow into the craft.

If you were only going to use it for light steels and sheet metals and limited to 120V, the Handler 140 mig would be another good option.

https://www.northerntool.com/categories/mig-flux-core-welders

The Miller's and Lincolns (and now there's other brands like ESAB, etc.) would be more like for professional weldors and priced accordingly.

 

[PPV_2018]

Is there a welder as such you recommend? $1000 is a bit beyond my budget to weld my old exhaust together. Unless there's a used deal I can score.

Actually i think @strutaeng got it right on the money. the Handler 210MVP is an excellent choice. It’s got all the basic features you expect from a modern machine, but with both flux/mig(gas) capability, 110/220, the option to do mild steel, stainless, and even has a hook up for a spool gun to do aluminum (which of course is not included lol), that’s a pretty amazing starter kit. Years ago this same machine and ones similar would have costed well over the $1200 they’re asking for.

I get the price tag may be a bit steep and we’re only talking about exhaust pipes here *but*… … if you are interested in learning you’ve got to start somewhere. You start on scrap metals, then the exhaust pipes, and before you know it you’re looking for or giving yourself any excuse to weld every little thing possible. And the thing is, if you buy a cheapo machine, keep practicing and start to get good And enjoy welding stuff, you grow out of those basic, limited machines fast. Now you’re stuck wanting a better machine trying to sell the old one off.

As for Hobart in general, they’re good machines. Strutaeng is correct that they are owned by Miller, and as such are basically just rebranded Miller machines targeted at a different audience. I also think the “MVP” tagline is a miller specific trademark for machines that are capable of both 110 and 220.

If you really can’t justify the price, you’re still looking at 500-800 for a quality MiG/flux welder. That is why in my humble opinion, you might as well just bite the bullet.

FWIW, i am NOT partial to any particular brand. Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, are all name brands that have their pro’s and con’s. Likewise, *SOME* “generic” brands have really stepped their game up in the past 10 years in terms of quality for the money.. Many years ago there wasn’t a generic that could pass muster. Not so much the case these days. It’s think you will find the core difference in the support you get if something should go wrong. If something happens to or you need a part for your YesWelder… lol.. good luck.

Also, not to go off topic but if you have used PPE, please for the love of all things good in the world, invest in some QUALITY eye protection. Gloves jackets etc that crap doesn’t really matter, but protect your eyes.