Tahoe/Yukon Headlight Information Thread

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BentleyArnage

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Sup!

Fair warning, the following will be tldr for some, but I thought it would be useful to have a lighting and HID information thread for folks to refer to before deciding on a course of action.

Before I begin, a few caveats …

1. This is all the information I have learned through my experiences going from stock, to ebay aftermarket housings, and eventually to two retrofits (links in sig), plus all the research I have done, and from reading on hid planet.com for over a year.
2. There's a lot more that i don't know, and I am by no means an 'expert' … for example I know nothing of wiring/harnessing nor do I know how to physically install a retrofit, although I have observed quite a few being created.
3. I'm not going to get into a convo about how you never get flashed with your PnP kit in your reflector housings. First of all glaring everywhere isn't the same as having your high beams on, some people get flashed some don't. As it will become clear, getting flashed is but one of many reasons not to use PnP kits.
4. ALL modifications to OEM stock lighting, except for replacing like for like specified bulbs, are illegal … that goes for the person sporting a 20000K PnP kit to the person with a properly installed $1500 retrofit with full oem hardware. The only difference is that the latter is less likely to draw any more attention to itself than any other oem housing.
5. Some of this info is specific to NNBS trucks, some is applicable to all vehicles.

That noted …

So you hear of this thing called High Intensity Discharge lighting, you look in the mirror, you say to yourself "I'm a high intensity kinda guy, that sounds like something I ought to pimp" … it's understandable, and it's good marketing, after all if it were called Lethargic Bulb Syndrome there'd hardly be a need for this thread and our eyes would likely be spared from tens of thousands of cheap Chinese kits on the road.

Here's some basic information that one should take the time to read through:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?44158-HID-plug-n-play-fails-govt-test

http://www.hidretrofits.com/

The hardware specific information on the last link is somewhat outdated as there now are more projector, bulb, and shroud options … I will get into this in a bit.


Your stock halogen setup:

Yuck, it's soooo feeble and boring!

Actually not really.

What many folks don't realize, is the amount of technology/R&D that goes into designing and creating halogen headlamps and how intricate and complicated they really are. As opposed to HID lighting, halogen lighting has been decades in development, thoroughly tested, and car manufacturers have a firm grasp on its capacities and limitations. One might think that it is a simple task of having a reflector and slapping a bulb into it, but a great deal more than that has gone into it in order to create a light that is both highly functional for the driver and minimizes adverse consequences for surrounding traffic. Every little flute on the lens or dimple on the reflector has a well defined purpose.

Every halogen housing is designed to work with its specific halogen bulb because differently designated halogen bulbs are never the same bulb with just a different base. Some bulbs like H11 have shields at their tips, some like the H13 don't and solely rely on a cap in the headlight housing itself … but bottom line, H designated bulbs are not interchangeable, they each have their optical characteristics meant to complement the housing in which they are meant to reside, especially those that are low beam only.

Low beam halogen bulbs, as opposed to HID bulbs, project light by reflecting it backwards onto the reflector inside the housing, which in turn projects the light forward in front of the vehicle. This will of course be the fundamental reason discussed later as to why HID bulbs are both inefficient and egregious in halogen reflector housings.

As far as your options to improve the stock bulbs that come on your truck, depending on what you define as 'improve,' you have a few options.

There are many oem spec aftermarket bulbs by companies such as Sylvania/Osram, Hella/Optilux, Philips, etc, that will improve output intensity over stock bulbs. Not by much mind you because parameters are set by wattage requirements and by the inherent limitations of the technology itself. Keep in mind that much of this is a zero sum equation, meaning that if you increase something on one end something gets sacrificed on the other. In this case, by keeping all the DOT/OEM specs consistent, the price one pays for getting a bulb which puts out more lumens, is usually shorter bulb life.

Some define 'improved output' as a whiter light. Halogen bulbs within required specs cannot burn white and they will always have the yellowish hue. The way manufacturers make them illuminate whiter is by coating the bulbs in different shades of blue. This is somewhat effective in making the light whiter but the blue coating will decrease lumens … again, it's that zero sum thing.

So the best aftermarket non coated bulbs will increase intensity but keep color the same as oem, the blue coated ones will make the like whiter but any increase in output will likely be lost through the coating. So as noted, it really depends on what 'improved' means to you.

There are 'over-wattage off road' aftermarket halogen bulbs available. I don't know much about them, but they will obviously exceed lumen/glare restrictions, and my understanding is that they may have damaging consequences to the housing, socket, and harness due to the higher heat they generate.

One last note about halogen lighting …

Halogen lighting is easier on the eyes, especially on long drives. It has much better ambient lighting characteristics as the light will 'bleed' over a much larger area, as opposed to HID lighting which is highly focused and has very little 'bleed' over the cutoff. Halogen color temperature is close to optimal for night sight and for eye stress, hence why most oem HID color specs try to emulate this temperature. This is why more people that one would think (especially commercial drivers, older drivers, and drivers with sensitive eyes), actually prefer halogen illumination over HID.


OEM Halogen Projectors

OEM halogen projectors are a relatively new technology. They are implemented because they can give car manufacturers the freedom to design more attractive and smaller housings (often emulating HID housings), whilst keeping halogen illumination. However despite the exterior similarities to HID projectors, they are specifically designed with halogen optics in mind, including how they disperse the light, heat tolerances inside the projector/harness/socket, etc.

The only advantage in owning a vehicle which came with such a setup is that a halogen projector is likely (but not sure) to be easier to swap for an HID one in the course of a retrofit.

Putting an HID bulb in a halogen projector is not likely to have adverse consequences to surrounding traffic, it'll most likely result in poor output and may damage the housing components.

Which brings us to …
Amazing write up! There's some serious research here. Thank you for taking the time to explain it. Of course, it's changed a great deal in the 7 or 8 years since this post was written. We are inundated with LEDs of various quality and manufacture. I spend a great deal of time on the road. I'm in the middle of nowhere for most of it, all by myself. Lighting is my friend. I'm also getting old and my eyesight isn't as good at night as it once was. I've been switching over to LED. For the most part, I'm happy with it. But there are some really bad bulbs out there. Amazon is very shaky as far as quality and consistency. After all the LEDs I've purchased, the best are the large rectangle sealed beam bulbs for a Jeep. Go figure. Inexpensive and good quality. Unfortunately, they don't work on our vehicles. But they sure light up the road in front of my old box truck.
 

66stingray

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Went on diode dynmaics website and their sl1 bulbs indicate they are no longer street/dot compliant along with every other manufacturer of led headlights. Anyone using led's now? When did this change take effect?
 

Geoffsfas10

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thats basically been the actual rule the whole time, they arent DOT approved for on road use but that doesnt stop anyone. You just have to say you arent going to run them in low beams, the retrofit source has a check box you have to click past. Basically waves the seller of responsibility.
 

avalonandl

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Went on diode dynmaics website and their sl1 bulbs indicate they are no longer street/dot compliant along with every other manufacturer of led headlights. Anyone using led's now? When did this change take effect?

As stated above you can use them-cough , cough.

LED's are getting much better. The Sealights I put in are basically the equal of Silverstars and hopefully will last YEARS....
 

avalonandl

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Can you tell me more about the orientation of the Sealight LEDs?

George its trial and error, I installed my LED's and the driver side was not aligned correctly. You could tell this by turning the low beams on and the beam should be parallel to florr. I had to rotate (you can do this with these Sealights, _
 

George B

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George its trial and error, I installed my LED's and the driver side was not aligned correctly. You could tell this by turning the low beams on and the beam should be parallel to florr. I had to rotate (you can do this with these Sealights, _
Thanks.
I have reservations about moving to LED headlights for several reasons. #1 being the focus of the light down road. My LED fogs are “meh” at best. I wish I had a better focused flat light beam.
In all I am skeptical of LED bulbs as it is.
 

avalonandl

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Thanks.
I have reservations about moving to LED headlights for several reasons. #1 being the focus of the light down road. My LED fogs are “meh” at best. I wish I had a better focused flat light beam.
In all I am skeptical of LED bulbs as it is.

These lights are about equal to the Silverstars and should in THEORY last Much longer. I was going thru the Silverstars about 1 a year.....
 

Drok

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I went with hikari led headlights(white box), theyre set up like the sealights where you can adjust the beam if needed. Ive had them almost 3 years and still going strong.

I a bit close to the wall i know but you get the picture of the beam style haha

74CC7D7B-5D3B-4C37-8058-4C35547EC36E.jpeg
 
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Bucky1

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I have been using some AuxBeams in my 2011 Yukon Denali. The led light output is greater, and much whiter. But the turn down is not good. Low beam just isn't very low. I tried different orientations and even used a welding helmet to try to determine if there was an up, since they give no guidance. No dice. Each one lasted me just under a year. They are in tight quarters, and maybe it's hard to get rid of the heat. My lenses are also foggy and scratched, and just aren't polishing up well. So I think I'm throwing new buckets at it. Wondering what I should try for bulbs with nice output but reasonable low beam turn down. Doesn't have to be led's. Not spending money on hid's. Extra output is nice for the country roads I travel to and from work.
I welcome any/all suggestions.
 

RealestateGP

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A couple of last points regarding HID lighting and retrofits:

1. Although no OEM ballast manufacturer makes ballasts for on road use greater than 35W, 50/55W aftermarket ballasts are widely available. First of all you must keep in mind the wattage specs on the ballast aren't precise. OEM ballasts always run a few watts short of their spec, aftermarket ballasts much more so. Aftermarket ballasts are plagued by the same quality control issues as aftermarket bulbs, so again you run a higher chance of failure or worse. 50/55W aftermarket ballasts will run A LOT hotter and can produce the exact same issue as having quads if combined with the wrong projector. Very few aftermarket projectors can handle that much wattage, in fact TRS will not sell you their MH1s with anything above a 35W ballast. Even some OEM projectors cannot handle 50W, especially if one uses non OEM bulbs, and their bowls will flake away.

2. Color temperature/Kelvin are highly subjective. OEM bulb manufacturers have established baselines from which they extrapolate color. OEM specs have historically been pegged at 4300K which look white when looking at the projector but has a slight warm tint on the road. Again, much research had gone into establishing that that color is the most effective for night sight, tires the eyes the least, and puts out the most lumens. Philips started manufacturing Ultinon bulbs a few years ago which are much bluer and they were highly controversial. They were accepted by some car manufacturers whilst acknowledging that lumens were lost. Most recently Osram came out with their CBI line of bulbs (Cool blue Intense) which after about 20hrs use settle at around 5000K. They are the first HID bulb that I know of to manage this kelvin rating whilst retaining 4300K oem lumen output … in fact some say that they surpass all OEM bulbs but for the other recently released Osram bulbs called SVS. The SVS and CBI have the highest lumen output at 4300K and 5000K respectively, they also cost about $180 a set.

When you see pictures of color charts when people are trying to sell you aftermarket bulbs, believe those representations at your peril. There is no worldwide standard for what K is what color, they just wing it. In any case the higher you go past 4300/5000K you start losing more lumens exponentially, and run a higher risk of getting ticketed ... past 8000K you're just basically a High Intensity Douche. :)

-------------------------------------

ETA:

Member arpz on hidp posted these comparo pics, and I thought they portrayed pretty well the loss of lumens as one goes up in Kelvin temp on their HIDs.

These low beams shots are on a set of very good projectors (RX-350), with Morimoto (slightly above average Chinese bulbs) D2S bulbs, the first pic is 5000K the second is 4300K. Both pics are on iphone auto settings.

View attachment 137696

View attachment 137697

It gets progressively worse the higher temp one goes, and also once you start dropping below 4000K. The only bulbs that are an exception to this are the Osram CBI bulbs that are the first built not to lose any lumens at 5000K.

Anyway, I know that some people think they get more light with a bluer light but it's simply not the case, not in proper OEM projectors and much less in PnP kits.

------------------------------------------------

There's never been an automotive OEM bulb manufactured to handle 50/55W. If you run OEM bulbs at that wattage it will significantly shorten their lifespan and they will run hotter, thus affecting surrounding components. Also, if you run any 35W bulb at higher wattage it will lower the K temperature rating. Not sure what the formula is of W to K but it I note it for the record.

There is one bulb that was originally manufactured to run at 50W. it is a non-automotive HID bulb called the DL-50 which came in a couple of variations including the infamous 'fatboy'. These have to be notched to work in tat D2S socket. They will only work right if run at 50W. The only way to get a real 50W output out of a ballast is to take an OEM ballast like AL-Bosch, and have it custom boosted, heatsinked, and potted to run at 50W. I've had this done in the past, and you're talking about $600 just for 2 bulbs and 2 ballasts. The output is insane, but you can get about 80% of that output by using Morimoto 5Five (50W) ballasts, and either SVS or CBI bulbs … but few projectors can take that amount of heat, so you might want to check if anyone has tried it on the projector you're looking at.

3. Custom modifications to shields, shield spacing, lens spacing, foreground limiters, are some of the customizations a lot of folks like to have done to achieve different color bands at the cutoff and other objectives. I know basically nothing about this stuff, so you can find out more on HIDP or by talking to a retrofitter.


LED lighting

There's no LED bulb on the market today that is a straight replacement for a headlight halogen bulb. LEDs generate a massive amount of heat, and the heatsink required to replicate halogen output in an LED bulb would be massive … certainly too big to be a straight swap for a halogen bulb. I'm sure this will happen at some point, but the tech is not there yet. And should it get there, the optics of the LED bulb, for the same reasons as an HID bulb, will fail to be compatible with halogen reflectors.

There are new LED projector modules on the market, including the brand new Hella Bi-Led module. They cost $700 a module. For $1400 you will get the same lumen output as a halogen bulb but with a pure white light.

There are other reputable manufacturers like JW Speaker who make stand alone headlamps and fog lamps in standardized sizes as direct housing replacements. Again very expensive, but very cool if you want full LED street legal lighting on your Harley or CJ7.

You an use a PnP 5202 bulb for your fogs if you want a whiter light. That light will only be for decorative purposes as the LEDs won't put out enough lumens to be functional … but then again, neither are our halogen fog bulbs.

For most other smaller bulb applications like DRL/TS/Park/Brakes PnP LED are often a cheap and effective alternative to customize one's truck.



That's pretty much all I know about HID and lighting in general. Undoubtably I am mistaken/misinformed on some elements but I'm somewhat confident I have a general grasp on the topic. The 'I run this and that' with no issue arguments will likely come back, all I''l say to that point is that technology is a matter of science and probability. The science is sound, and running inferior components increases possibility of failure and damage … it does not mean that every component fails.

I hope this info is useful to a soul or two.

I'm tired ...
Excellent!
 

RealestateGP

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So I have a factory left light with H11 bulbs that I have replaced the bulb twice in 2 weeks. Once while on a 12 hour trip and once I got home it had to be replaced again. The last time we put the Di-electric grease on the outside of the housing before plugging in the bulb. Not inside the housing where the prongs are and the bulb still went out. What could be the problem? Thx!!
 

RealestateGP

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So I have a factory left light with H11 bulbs that I have replaced the bulb twice in 2 weeks. Once while on a 12 hour trip and once I got home it had to be replaced again. The last time we put the Di-electric grease on the outside of the housing before plugging in the bulb. Not inside the housing where the prongs are and the bulb still went out. What could be the problem? Thx!!
Ps. I have a 2010, 5.3 two wheel drive and the drivers side low beam is the culprit
 

avalonandl

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Went on diode dynmaics website and their sl1 bulbs indicate they are no longer street/dot compliant along with every other manufacturer of led headlights. Anyone using led's now? When did this change take effect?
Sealiights has LEDS that work in the OE Fixtures. I just make sure to polish the lenses
 

Vladimir2306

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You can tell us about your experience. I thought for a long time, and read the Internet what to do with the light of Tahoe. As a result, I came to a scheme. Hella xenon 100mm modules instead of fog lights and Hella Jambo long-range gifts with xenon under the radiator grille. It looked cool, the light was even better
 

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Greg Kulbick

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Anyone have some insight into some good housings that won't yellow. My wife drives my 07 that i put some new housings on a few years ago and the yellow lenses irk me. I feel like they get worse every time I come out of the garage. I'm not opposed to going to something with a projector and adding HIDs.
 

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