Rebuiding my front end - upgrades?

[tRidiot]

So I'm considering doing an entire front end rebuild - front hubs and bearings, upper and lower control arms or at LEAST ball joints, sway bar and links, pittman and idler arms. I may do the late-model Silverado brake upgrade while I'm at it - why not, right?

So my question is, can I replace all these parts from my regular Tahoe with the equivalent parts from the 2500 Suburban? I've upgraded to the 6.0LQ9 engine, so I just thought, "What the hell, why not?" I would ASSUME they are all bolt-on same/same, and watching some videos, I don't see why not. Also would ASSUME that the 2500 parts would be slightly more durable for the long term. With a newly rebuilt 6.0 and 4l60e trans, I guess I need to count on keeping this thing for a while. Figuring on maybe $1500 or so worth of parts (guesstimate), I won't do GM OEM, but AC Delco and Moog (the higher line) for most, I think. Also all new bushings, probably Energy Suspension - from what I've read, they're nice. I'll eventually also likely upgrade all the body bushings.

This a reasonable start to rebuilding the drivability, stability, longevity and enjoyment of my 2004 Tahoe LE?

 

[Joseph Garcia]

How many miles on the truck, and have any suspension parts already been replaced?

Regarding replacing stock Tahoe parts with 2500 Suburban parts, my first guess would be no, but that is just a guess, and other folks more knowledgeable than me will chime in.

 

[tRidiot]

About 280k miles - no suspension work that I know of unless it was done prior to my purchase with 80k in 2009. I think I replaced a bearing once a number of years ago. I took it to a tire/shop a couple of months ago, they recommended $1500 worth of front end work. That was only for I think 3 ball joints and one wheel bearing. I took it to my mechanic, he checked it out and said he felt everything was fine. I assumed they really torqued on things to try to get some flex, he didn't feel anything was really out of whack. I had asked them to look at the alignment because I felt it was pulling left a bit - their answer wasn't to align it, it was to do $1500 worth of work.

Since then, The Wife got hit in the front right wheel by another car, low-speed. It didn't really damage anything major, but since then I continue to notice the pulling left, I've heard some clunking underneath at times. Makes me wonder if something got damaged, but with the weather and timing and snow and my job I haven't had time to crawl under and look at things. I also don't have a rack or a way to lift it up. I have a jack and stands, but my driveway is sloped and my garage won't allow me to get it inside to lift it up right now. And probably won't for a few more months until we can offload some of the crap inside.

So with that kind of mileage, I thought a front end rebuild certainly wouldn't be a BAD thing to do, if I had the money to spare and wanted to do something meaningful on the truck.

 

[BossGunner]

Im Interested in how this goes for you. I've been wanting to do some similar work but for both the front end and rear end. I've got an 04 5.3 LT all stock with 215k miles and I've notice little things here and there while alone dont seem like much but together makes me want to replace/upgrade. Hoping to make this thing outlast me.

 

[ivin74]

About 280k miles - no suspension work that I know of unless it was done prior to my purchase with 80k in 2009.

If you got 280k miles out of the original 1500 parts why would you wanna put parts from a 2500?

 

[tRidiot]

If you got 280k miles out of the original 1500 parts why would you wanna put parts from a 2500?

Why not?

 

[1badjimmy]

The 2500 series parts will not work. I have a 2005 Suburban 2500 and it’s parts are the same as my 2005 3500 Dually.

Hub bearings are 4 bolt on them versus 3 bolt for my 2004 Tahoe. Also 8 lug instead of 6 lug. Even the 1500HD trucks had 8 lug hubs.

The lower shock mount is completely different. 2500/3500 has no bushing in the control arm like the Tahoe.

Save yourself the headache and get the good stuff from a trusted supplier. Just don’t buy the stuff I’m looking at.


Please.

 

[tRidiot]

There we go... that's the information I was looking for. I guess I should have known about the hubs, that makes sense with 6-lug vs 8-lug wheels.

I just crawled under mine to look for what is making noise - I really couldn't see anything out of whack. Maybe I won't bother rebuilding, just get it aligned and see if I'm happier with it. It's definitely pulling left and sometimes seems to wander, but I could be a bit hypervigilant, I dunno.

 

[1badjimmy]

$1500 for three ball joints and a hub bearing seems a bit much to me. Then again I do all of my own work except alignments.

Where does the clunk seem like it’s coming from? The intermediate steering shaft is a known issue that makes a clunk on all of my gmt800.

If you have the torsion bar front suspension the torsion bar mount bushings could be bad and also making the clunk.

Honestly with almost 300k on it I would replace everything. I’m in the process of doing just that with my 04 because the poor thing has been abused it’s whole life.

 

[tRidiot]

Clunk seems to be coming from front drivers side suspension. Like I said, nothing looks bent or broken, doesn't look suspiciously worn out. My mechanic got it up on a lift and pulled and yanked on everything less than 2500 miles ago and said he thought it was all good.

The clunking is more when hitting small bumps driving than when turning, if that means anything. And it's pulling left. Not bad bad, but notably so.

I was concerned about the shocks... I did these about 4 1/2 years ago, but only probably 20k miles. I was worried after seeing this:

But the passenger's side look the same, so I guess it's nothing to worry about.

 

[Tonyrodz]

Check the bushings on the ds upper control arm. They tend to deteriorate over time. Also--imo it's just easier doing the complete control arms instead of just doing ball joints. New arms come with all those parts new. That's what I did. While you're there get the new hardware/bolts and adjusters to do the alignment. The new stuff is cheap.

 

[Rocket Man]

Just but ACDelco OEM parts and they’ll last another 250k. Don’t buy the Advantage line, it’s cheap crap. The Professional is not as good as OEM but it’s ok.

 

[1badjimmy]

Those boots or whatever you call that accordion piece on the shocks are made long to accommodate the shock extending. Nothing to worry about as I think bilstein uses a 1 size fits all on them.

Some things I did see though. The bump stop or jounce bumper is deteriorated and gone, wouldn’t make noise on little bumps. The sway bar end link is missing the top washer. I had a vehicle once that squished a bushing out and the sway bar would rattle like crazy on a washboard road.

The alignment came on the upper control arm are in a different spot. Maybe from a past alignment or shifted from the impact. They could also be the cause of the pull.

I agree with Tony and Rocket on the upper control arm stuff.

 

[Rocket Man]

Those boots or whatever you call that accordion piece on the shocks are made long to accommodate the shock extending. Nothing to worry about as I think bilstein uses a 1 size fits all on them.

Some things I did see though. The bump stop or jounce bumper is deteriorated and gone, wouldn’t make noise on little bumps. The sway bar end link is missing the top washer. I had a vehicle once that squished a bushing out and the sway bar would rattle like crazy on a washboard road.

The alignment came on the upper control arm are in a different spot. Maybe from a past alignment or shifted from the impact. They could also be the cause of the pull.

I agree with Tony and Rocket on the upper control arm stuff.

Good eye on the jounce stops. I didn’t even notice that one in the pic is pretty much gone. The torsion bar suspension uses those as a fulcrum point and they should actually be touching the control arm. They’re an important part of the suspension and that might be the clunking sound you hear as the control arm makes contact with the jounce stop mount. Replace those ASAP @tRidiot !

 

[tRidiot]

Ok, I'm gonna try to get some better and more thorough pics. I saw those 'jounce stops' and couldn't see what purpose they served, I thought it was for severe travel from the lower control arm, and I don't offroad or anything, didn't think that was an issue.

For future reference for anyone - I found this video which shows really easy replacement of these bump stops and a good eye of how they work with the lower control arm.

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'll have a look at the sway bar end link on the other side, too.

Actually maybe some video would be better. That will allow me to have you guys (if you don't mind!) give me a slightly better assessment of my front end. I will definitely order those bump stops, though, I know the one on the pass side looks the same.

Surprisingly, when I was underneath, I took a good look at my body bushings and they looked pretty good. I was happy to see that, it was on my list of things to replace, but maybe I don't need to do as much work as I thought on this thing!

Bump stop options:

More Information for MOOG K201939

Rock Auto doesn't have the AC Delco or OEM ones for mine - only the 4x4. The SKP version shows 4??? Where are the other two??

More Information for SKP SK905208

Amazon has OEM, but only 2.

Amazon.com

What are the other two for on the SKP kit?


<edit>

It looks like the SKP kit SAYS only front lower, but on further research and watching this video, the picture shows the front pair and rear pair. This is a good video look at the rear.

I'll crawl under and see if I need rear ones, as well.

 

[Rocket Man]

Ok, I'm gonna try to get some better and more thorough pics. I saw those 'jounce stops' and couldn't see what purpose they served, I thought it was for severe travel from the lower control arm, and I don't offroad or anything, didn't think that was an issue.

For future reference for anyone - I found this video which shows really easy replacement of these bump stops and a good eye of how they work with the lower control arm.

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'll have a look at the sway bar end link on the other side, too.

Actually maybe some video would be better. That will allow me to have you guys (if you don't mind!) give me a slightly better assessment of my front end. I will definitely order those bump stops, though, I know the one on the pass side looks the same.

Surprisingly, when I was underneath, I took a good look at my body bushings and they looked pretty good. I was happy to see that, it was on my list of things to replace, but maybe I don't need to do as much work as I thought on this thing!

Bump stop options:

More Information for MOOG K201939

Rock Auto doesn't have the AC Delco or OEM ones for mine - only the 4x4. The SKP version shows 4??? Where are the other two??

More Information for SKP SK905208

Amazon has OEM, but only 2.

Amazon.com

What are the other two for on the SKP kit?


<edit>

It looks like the SKP kit SAYS only front lower, but on further research and watching this video, the picture shows the front pair and rear pair. This is a good video look at the rear.

I'll crawl under and see if I need rear ones, as well.

The rear ones are used like regular bump stops- they only touch if you completely bottom out which pretty much never happens unless you’re doing some Dukes Of Hazzard sh*t. In fact everybody who lowers the rear by more than 4” actually cuts the mount off the frame, throws the originals away and uses pancake style bump stops. I wouldn’t worry about yours unless you’re lowered 4+ inches in which case you need to do that, known as the free travel mod.

 

[Rocket Man]

The MOOG or the OEM ones you linked above are both fine. Change those out and then come back and let us know how it changes the ride. I think you’ll be amazed .

 

[tRidiot]

I am really interested to see if replacing those helps that noise I'm hearing. I think it's pretty obvious I need an alignment, but none of the places I've been to here do I trust - they've all tried to upsell me a bunch of sh*t I obviously don't need. One of them tried to tell me they weren't going to let me take my truck because I needed a new Pittman arm - that was, I think... 8 years ago? Still got the same Pittman arm, another 150k miles or more since then.

 

[Tonyrodz]

I am really interested to see if replacing those helps that noise I'm hearing. I think it's pretty obvious I need an alignment, but none of the places I've been to here do I trust - they've all tried to upsell me a bunch of sh*t I obviously don't need. One of them tried to tell me they weren't going to let me take my truck because I needed a new Pittman arm - that was, I think... 8 years ago? Still got the same Pittman arm, another 150k miles or more since then.

Did they try to stop you from leaving with your own truck??

 

[calsdad]

So I'm considering doing an entire front end rebuild - front hubs and bearings, upper and lower control arms or at LEAST ball joints, sway bar and links, pittman and idler arms. I may do the late-model Silverado brake upgrade while I'm at it - why not, right?

So my question is, can I replace all these parts from my regular Tahoe with the equivalent parts from the 2500 Suburban? I've upgraded to the 6.0LQ9 engine, so I just thought, "What the hell, why not?" I would ASSUME they are all bolt-on same/same, and watching some videos, I don't see why not. Also would ASSUME that the 2500 parts would be slightly more durable for the long term. With a newly rebuilt 6.0 and 4l60e trans, I guess I need to count on keeping this thing for a while. Figuring on maybe $1500 or so worth of parts (guesstimate), I won't do GM OEM, but AC Delco and Moog (the higher line) for most, I think. Also all new bushings, probably Energy Suspension - from what I've read, they're nice. I'll eventually also likely upgrade all the body bushings.

This a reasonable start to rebuilding the drivability, stability, longevity and enjoyment of my 2004 Tahoe LE?

I honestly don't know if there is ANY interchange between the 1500 and 2500 series trucks of that vintage. There might be some - but you could probably replicate any increase in reliability you'd get from doing that - by just going with aftermarket parts that are made for lifted trucks.

That's what I did with my 2010 Yukon XL 2500 when I rebuilt the front suspension last year. I put Wilwood 16" brakes on it as an upgrade (very happy with them so far). Then I used the best quality parts I could find for the tie rods, pitman arm, idler arm - etc, from places like Cognito and Rare Parts. Before my truck was really hard to hold steady on the highway - it wanted to drift quite a bit. Afterwards it tracks nice and straight. A LOT of the slop is gone out of the steering. I also adjusted the steering box while I was in there too to take out the play. I added one of those idler arm reinforcement kits (weld on braces) and a nice Bilstein steering stabilizer. I replaced the front bearings with the best quality SKF ..... etc.

I'm sure just like there are heavier duty parts available from the aftermarket for the 2500 series trucks - which are mostly targeted towards people with lift kits - the same stuff is available for the 1500 series trucks like your Tahoe.

If you want I could put together a list of which parts I used and a complete run down of what I did - so far it seems to be working out very well.