Overlanding?

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soulsea

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I believe what you said originally was that the 4wd system in these vehicles isn't designed for serious offroading? What makes you say that? Is it the transfer case? suspension geometry? Is it the aluminum front axle housing that really doesn't like lockers?



These SUVs are built with a lot of capabilities. They are comfortable people and stuff movers and they are great at towing. Their very basic 4WD systems are designed with these primary concerns in mind, and they are designed to provide better traction on road under adverse weather conditions and for mild off roading. They are not built with off roading as a primary concern. Have you ever heard of GM even mentioning or promoting anything related to off roading in regard to these vehicles other than slapping a Z71 appearance package badge on them?

I am certainly not an authority on the subject, I just happen to have collected information from off roading for many years, having researched and owned custom builds, and know how many Tahoes I run across on the trail, which is to say almost none, and after extensive research on overland builds I know that practically no overland vehicles are ever built on this platform, both for some of the reasons you mentioned and others.

The whole suspension system, drivetrain, tranny, gearing, hubs, control arms, are not oriented for off roading, they just will not provide the necessary traction, much less articulation, to get out of any serious situation. Not only that but the tolerances of all the components that make up all of those systems are such that they will not take the abuse over the long run, not because they are flawed but just because they aren’t designed for this purpose. A good lift and grippier tires will help a little but have their limits. So you basically have to change everything under the truck to make it seriously capable, essentially having to do all the things that are in that Sportsmobile conversion link I posted earlier. Even Raptors, which are built with off roading as a primary mission require a lot of upgrading of stock components if one is to truly off road them aggressively.

At some point, unless one plans their entire itinerary to avoid places to account for the limitations of their vehicle, one has to have at least a rear locker or an adaptive air suspension such as the ones LR and Jeep use to distribute traction where needed. There are plenty of vehicles in the same price point of a GMT900 or lower with those basics built into them without having to change anything, why start with anything else? For a true overland build, just grab a bone stock used taco/4Runner, FJ, Colorado zr2, or Jeep and go to town without having to rebuild half the vehicle just to get to a decent starting point.

As always everything can be done with enough money. The question here is whether the GMT900 platform is a good one upon which to build an overland rig, and the answer of no is very well established. It’s actually exhausting having to keep arguing something that’s a given by those informed. But with a few mods and some camping gear they will get you out there on the trails and into the wild. The burb HD is actually really good for such things. Truth is about 80% of what’s out there can be handled by a Honda Pilot with a small lift and a/t tires, for most people that’s actually good enough ... very few people actually follow through on a true overland build once they figure out what it truly entails and whether or not they will realistically ever do the overlanding expeditions themselves and need that level of capability out of their vehicle.
 

DesertRat

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Really disappointing to see how this thread turned out. OP asked a couple simple questions and this turned into a semantics discussion. Lame. As someone who is building a Tahoe for off road and overland use I look forward to it getting back on track. Thanks for posting vids of this platform in action BTW.

Edited for clarification
 
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The Raven

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"As always everything can be done with enough money. The question here is whether the GMT900 platform is a good one upon which to build an overland rig, and the answer of no is very well established."

You’re wrong too. We're not talking about off-roading we're talking about overlanding. It's a concept that has a different name because it's not the same thing. You continue to conflate the two and then project your own misconceptions onto others who actually know what they're talking about.

You don't need lockers, solid axles, and lifts for overlanding. My brother does it in a bone-stock Mercedes Benz conversion van with skid plates and A/T tires. The Tahoe is arguably a BETTER platform than a Wrangler because (as has already been mentioned by the guys who actually DO IT) of GVWR.

OP - listen to the guys who have done it for years, not the guys who like to hear themselves talk.
 

soulsea

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Alright, cleaned up the above post ... now here’s how this is going to go.

If you don’t like my or anyone else’s opinion, refute it. If you don’t like their tone, you can be snarky right back.

This forum however has a no name calling policy towards all other members. I couldn’t care less if someone who runs out of argument yells louder and starts insulting me personally, however this forum isn’t the place to do it.

Make your point on the topic without resorting to personal insults or staff will take action.
 

Mickey_7106

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I guess depending on how technical you want to get will depend on what platform to start with. I for one am not interested in climbing any king of rock bigger than a golf ball, so for me an Escalade will be a great starting point
 

soulsea

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To get back on topic because there is actually some useful info scattered in this thread from all sides of the discussion.


You’re wrong too. We're not talking about off-roading we're talking about overlanding. It's a concept that has a different name because it's not the same thing. You continue to conflate the two and then project your own misconceptions onto others who actually know what they're talking about.

You don't need lockers, solid axles, and lifts for overlanding. My brother does it in a bone-stock Mercedes Benz conversion van with skid plates and A/T tires. The Tahoe is arguably a BETTER platform than a Wrangler because (as has already been mentioned by the guys who actually DO IT) of GVWR.

OP - listen to the guys who have done it for years, not the guys who like to hear themselves talk.

I am not conflating the two erroneously.

Think of it this way, you can have a Swiss army knife with three tools or you can have one with ten tools, which one prepares you better for more eventualities? Do you have to have lockers and a very capable 4x4 as a build starting point? No, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Yes a person can slap a tent, some tools, and supplies on anything, hit a few dirt roads, and camp out by the creek. In this age where people are free to identify as anything they please, one can call those overland vehicles if it makes them happy. :) And yes there have been epic overlanding journeys achieved by pretty basic vehicles. That's not the point though. Part of ovelanding is not knowing what road conditions are around the next corner, or even if there is a river around the corner instead of a road. It stands to reason that the more tools one has in their toolbox the better their chances of getting through it with their vehicle and themselves unscathed.

No one is saying that a GMT900 suv can't be turned into an overland vehicle, all I'm saying is that it's not a good starting platform relative to other available ones out there as one is limiting their options from the get go, or has to pay a lot of money to put in those options when off the shelf solutions are readily available.

It's all fun and games typing about it on a forum, but not having the right equipment, especially when equipment was available that would have made a difference in a bad spot, can cost one their vehicle or even their life. That's probably why I'm a little more aggressive on this topic than others.

Anyway, mercifully for all I think I've exhausted all I have to say on the subject.
 

The Raven

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Think of it this way, you can have a Swiss army knife with three tools or you can have one with ten tools, which one prepares you better for more eventualities? Do you have to have lockers and a very capable 4x4 as a build starting point? No, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Conversely, as you continue to improve the off-road capability of a given vehicle, you tend to worsen other important things - like livability (space and comfort) and payload capacity. You are right that you never know what kind of challenge you are going to have to navigate on the next leg of the journey, but there are ways around those challenges...you don't always have to go right through or over them. Conversely, you NEED to have sufficient supplies and gear along for the trip, and you need a place to live while on the trip. For those reasons, things like space, range, and payload capacity rank above off-road capability when it comes to overlanding. Tahoes actually outshine Wranglers and Rovers in those areas.

So again, we're in agreement when it comes to offroading. If you want to do real offroading and actually be good at it, Tahoe is probably not a good idea. But for overlanding, I think the Tahoe is a great choice.
 

HiHoeSilver

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To get back on topic because there is actually some useful info scattered in this thread from all sides of the discussion.




I am not conflating the two erroneously.

Think of it this way, you can have a Swiss army knife with three tools or you can have one with ten tools, which one prepares you better for more eventualities? Do you have to have lockers and a very capable 4x4 as a build starting point? No, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Yes a person can slap a tent, some tools, and supplies on anything, hit a few dirt roads, and camp out by the creek. In this age where people are free to identify as anything they please, one can call those overland vehicles if it makes them happy. :) And yes there have been epic overlanding journeys achieved by pretty basic vehicles. That's not the point though. Part of ovelanding is not knowing what road conditions are around the next corner, or even if there is a river around the corner instead of a road. It stands to reason that the more tools one has in their toolbox the better their chances of getting through it with their vehicle and themselves unscathed.

No one is saying that a GMT900 suv can't be turned into an overland vehicle, all I'm saying is that it's not a good starting platform relative to other available ones out there as one is limiting their options from the get go, or has to pay a lot of money to put in those options when off the shelf solutions are readily available.

It's all fun and games typing about it on a forum, but not having the right equipment, especially when equipment was available that would have made a difference in a bad spot, can cost one their vehicle or even their life. That's probably why I'm a little more aggressive on this topic than others.

Anyway, mercifully for all I think I've exhausted all I have to say on the subject.

I certainly am not experienced in either overland or off road vehicles to any extent over a touristy "trail" here or there. I cannot argue merits of one truck over another in this context, but I am genuinely curious about the subject. Would you indulge me and type just a touch more here? Lol.

You've mentioned a couple of times "better" available starting platforms. Seems to me, everybody jumps to that meaning a jeep. What would you list as the top few choices and why?
 

soulsea

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Conversely, as you continue to improve the off-road capability of a given vehicle, you tend to worsen other important things - like livability (space and comfort) and payload capacity.

That can be true in the case of some vehicles and not so true in the case of others. The degree of compromise required to balance those two variables out in any vehicle is part of what determines what is a better starting platform for an overland build.

You are right that you never know what kind of challenge you are going to have to navigate on the next leg of the journey, but there are ways around those challenges...you don't always have to go right through or over them.

I think this is a the crux of the disagreement. When a person and their vehicle embark on an overland expedition, especially across continents like S America, Africa, Central Asia, and even in some places in NA, once they get committed to a route there is little option for driving around things. A simple storm can turn a stream into a river and it could take hours or days to retrace and find another route. Sometimes the route you just drove can't be turned back into (you made it down the mountain but can't get back the other way for example)

Overland people don't go seeking extreme situations, in fact they will always choose the terrain of least resistance, but sometimes avoidance just isn't an option. So the only way is through the obstacle if the vehicle is capable of it. Again, all of these things are just different tools in the toolbox in case they are needed. Even with all the tools possible, sometime things can come up that cannot be overcome and turning back is the only way, but why not have the solution to the problem ready?


I really think the reason for most disagreement on this subject is because people are saying different things when they say overlanding. For a lot people here in the US, if a vehicle has capability to go off road enough to get to isolation and stay out there for a week they will term that as overlanding. I had a built 18 Raptor that I spent a lot of $ on to keep its off road capability whilst carrying 1000lb of off road and survival gear, including camping gear, solar array, recovery tools, liquids, lowrance off road nav, firearms, ammo, etc ... the truck was build as both a fun off roader and as a bug out vehicle meant to take me and mrs soulsea to places inaccessible by most of the rest of humanity, and have two people stay out there for two weeks without running out of supplies. The truck had rear lockers and had component upgrades everywhere, it was immensely capable and could overcome more obstacles than vehicles short of a tight forest road ... all that and it still wasn't an overland vehicle, at least not to me. If one day I build one of those I will start out with a better (and smaller) off road platform.
 

The Raven

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The degree of compromise required to balance those two variables out in any vehicle is part of what determines what is a better starting platform for an overland build.

I agree on that thought and it appears that we simply disagree on where the Tahoe falls in that spectrum. Also note that the OP asked if the Tahoe is a good overlanding vehicle, not if it's the best. We both agree it's not the best.

When a person and their vehicle embark on an overland expedition, especially across continents like S America, Africa, Central Asia, and even in some places in NA, once they get committed to a route there is little option for driving around things. A simple storm can turn a stream into a river and it could take hours or days to retrace and find another route. Sometimes the route you just drove can't be turned back into (you made it down the mountain but can't get back the other way for example)

Overland people don't go seeking extreme situations, in fact they will always choose the terrain of least resistance, but sometimes avoidance just isn't an option. So the only way is through the obstacle if the vehicle is capable of it. Again, all of these things are just different tools in the toolbox in case they are needed. Even with all the tools possible, sometime things can come up that cannot be overcome and turning back is the only way, but why not have the solution to the problem ready?

Fair points - however there really is no way to "have the solution to the problem ready". It doesn't matter how immensely capable your vehicle is, nature can screw you regardless. There really is a pretty small range of conditions, in the overall picture, that the human species has vehicles for. Most of the terrain on this planet is impassable with any land vehicle we've ever built.
 

thompsoj22

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lol, that's a lot of feelings

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OP disregard all this nonsense. Please go do some research about what makes a good overland vehicle in the correct communities and then spend your money and energy accordingly.


Just saying, It is a little defeating to throw a thread/question on a forum expressing enthusiam to try an adventure with the vehicle you currently have only to be told your vehicle has been excluded from the adventure and it would be impossible for you and your family to experience any part "overlanding" with it? How important is it to you to be right? I think the ability to choose the correct line on a trail, Knowing when to stop or turn around will allow allmost any vehicle to "overland" to an extent? No disrespect intended. I read further, i thought the op was headed to NM for few days, not crossing continents? I will agree i would not take a tahoe accross the blow sands of the sahara desert,lol
 

soulsea

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I certainly am not experienced in either overland or off road vehicles to any extent over a touristy "trail" here or there. I cannot argue merits of one truck over another in this context, but I am genuinely curious about the subject. Would you indulge me and type just a touch more here? Lol.

You've mentioned a couple of times "better" available starting platforms. Seems to me, everybody jumps to that meaning a jeep. What would you list as the top few choices and why?

When I say 'better' I simply mean ones with more capabilities build into them that way one doesn't have to either forgo them or have to add them themselves.

The 'best' platform will in the end be determined by the builder to achieve what he actually wants to achieve with the vehicle.

For example a lot of people favor starting with much older vehicles, like classic FJs and Defenders. These have no electronics and can be fixed relatively easily should something break. Some people prefer Diesel engines, not only for torque but also because once you get out in the continents diesel tends to be more readily available and quality is apparently more consistent. Older diesel Nissan Patrols and Mitsu Pajeros are very popular as overland vehicles in the rest of the world, as are older G wagons. Other people like to have huge expedition vehicles like the Prospector XL or the Earthroamer., even Raptor conversions like mine sometimes, but the big rigs are oft shunned by the overland purists, they're a finicky bunch. :) Some people really love the van conversions. With newer vehicles LR4s are very popular because of their off road capability, as are 4runners/Tacos despite the fact that they are painfully underpowered when not off road. Of course Land Cruisers. Colorado ZR2s are becoming more popular. Jeeps are in there too, but not as much as one would assume not having dug into the culture. The Revel is pretty neat but not an overland vehicle by any means, but a nice 4x4 glamper.

There's no shortage of new and old vehicles that it can be done with, some are 'better' starting point from an objective engineering point of view and then it boils down to the precise requirement of the owner. If one likes cars Expedition Portal is a fun place to visit and read all the things are doing with all sorts of vehicles. Overland Expo is also a fantastic thing to visit for a car guy.
 

Doubeleive

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having experienced some things in this category I will comment 3 things,
1. NEVER trust a gps to direct you on a good path, it's just a dumb satellite map the road could be a 150 years old and never ever maintained, you can be risking your life and the life of others with you.
2. what Soulsea said is true sometimes you could be dedicated to go one way and come to find out the road is GONE, un noted, un-marked, just gone period. with no way to overcome it.
3. always let someone know where you are going and when you expect to return even if it is just a neighbor, shit happens usually at the worst possible time.
I have been on some trips that would make your hair stand end, really wish I had the money, time and resources to keep doing it because it is one of life's great pleasure to me.
 

soulsea

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Just saying, It is a little defeating to throw a thread/question on a forum expressing enthusiam to try an adventure with the vehicle you currently have only to be told your vehicle has been excluded from the adventure and it would be impossible for you and your family to experience any part "overlanding" with it? How important is it to you to be right? I think the ability to choose the correct line on a trail, Knowing when to stop or turn around will allow allmost any vehicle to "overland" to an extent? No disrespect intended. I read further, i thought the op was headed to NM for few days, not crossing continents? I will agree i would not take a tahoe accross the blow sands of the sahara desert,lol


Honestly I wish the OP had been more descriptive in their question. If all they want is an off road conversion it would have saved me from myself. :)

But until that happens all we have to go on is the fact that they asked about overlanding both in the title and in his post, and most of the discussion (at least for my part) has been around that topic.

And NM, just like the rest of the SW has some epic overland off road journeys. I did one (without camping) a while back from Taos, through Dulce, through the continental divide, then through Silverton/Ouray, to SLC through Moab. Some sections require very off road capable vehicles.

 

63Blackseries

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Anyone have this rack installed? Its by KC Hilites seems like a new product they released, seeing if this would be good for roof top tent.

Screenshot_20190924-110924_Chrome.jpg
 

The Raven

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Anyone have this rack installed? Its by KC Hilites seems like a new product they released, seeing if this would be good for roof top tent.

View attachment 231274

I looked at that one. It looks awesome but it's like $1200. They have ones for the Tahoe and Suburban too.

I'm currently looking into modifying one of the many racks available for the 4Runner. Prinsu Designs has beautiful racks in many different sizes for the 4Runner for $600-700.
 

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