Oil Change Interval ?

[donjetman]

I do extended oil changes and used oil analysis is so we might all learn something, and I find it interesting.

I'm trying to figure out how long I can/should go between oil & filter changes with our 140k new to us 07 Yukon Denali w/6.2 L92? The main tool I use to help me determine this is used oil analysis(UOA).

I've been doing UOA for 10 yrs on various vehicles. Here's a link to one of our vehicles that I've had for 10 yrs and have done 10 UOA to:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-14-500-miles-toy-fj-cruiser-4-0l#Post4918507

We bought this Yukon last Oct. w/130k miles off a used car lot without any mx history. I figured out real quick that it burned and leaked a lot of oil. It had good oil pressure and drove like a dream. I am a DIYer. I fixed the leaks by changing the rear main seal and oil pan gasket. I cured the oil burning by installing the new improved driver side valve cover and performing TSB 10-06-01-008M. I made a lot of posts here w/pics last Nov & Dec when I was doing all this work. There is a lot of gunk/crud built up inside the engine from its prior life.

https://f01.justanswer.com/ebrock63...il+Consumption,+MIL+ON,+Engine+Runs+Rough.pdf

I cleaned the spark plugs, installed new wires, installed a catch can, and installed a remote engine oil bypass filtration setup utilizing 1 Amsoil EaBP90 spin-on filter. Before I fixed everything, the catch can was catching about 1oz of oil every 100 miles. Now it catches 1 oz every 2000 miles. I went 8000 mile without adding any oil.

Here are the results of the first UOA. The oil is Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5-40w that is SN rated w/8000 mostly hwy miles(25% remaining) and a NAPA 47060 Platinum oil filter. I did not change the oil and filter when I took the sample. I always wait till I see the results first.
Wear Metals(ppm)
Iron - 39
Chromium - 1
Nickel - 0
Aluminum - 6
Copper - 10
Lead - 9
Tin - 0
Cadmium - 0
Silver - 0
Vanadium - 0

Contaminant Metals(ppm)
Silicon - 31
Sodium - 31
Potassium - 3

Multi-Source Metals(ppm)
Titanium - 1
Molybdenum - 51
Antimony - 0
Manganese - 0
Lithium - 0
Boron - 37

Additive Metals(ppm)
Magnesium - 835
Calcium - 1311
Barium - 0
Phosphorus - 980
Zinc - 1212

No Contaminants

Fluid Properties
Viscosity 100C - 13.4
Total Base # - 2.58 KOH/g
Oxidation - 40 abs/cm
Nitration - 14 abs/0.1mm

The Lab, Oil Analyzers Inc(Polaris Laboratories), suggested that I change the oil because they thought the OXIDATION was high and that the total base # and Silicon were at moderate levels. I know that the oxidation wasn't TOO high because the viscosity was still at a normal level(13.4). This oil when its new is 13.8. When oxidation is too high, the viscosity will thicken.

I changed the oil, again w/Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 40w, and the filter with Fram XG10575. The EaBP90 bypass filter was drained, replenished, and re-installed.

I plan to give her another 8000k mile run, then send in another sample.

I alway cut open my old oil filters. Here are some picks of the NAPA Platinum 47060 oil filter at this oil change. Notice all the carbon in the bottom of the pleats. I think the Mobil Delvac 1 synthetic oil is slowly cleaning things up.
View media item 27790View media item 27793View media item 27792View media item 27791

 

[Tonyrodz]

I do extended oil changes and used oil analysis is so we might all learn something, and I find it interesting.

I'm trying to figure out how long I can/should go between oil & filter changes with our 140k new to us 07 Yukon Denali w/6.2 L92? The main tool I use to help me determine this is used oil analysis(UOA).

I've been doing UOA for 10 yrs on various vehicles. Here's a link to one of our vehicles that I've had for 10 yrs and have done 10 UOA to:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-14-500-miles-toy-fj-cruiser-4-0l#Post4918507

We bought this Yukon last Oct. w/130k miles off a used car lot without any mx history. I figured out real quick that it burned and leaked a lot of oil. It had good oil pressure and drove like a dream. I am a DIYer. I fixed the leaks by changing the rear main seal and oil pan gasket. I cured the oil burning by installing the new improved driver side valve cover and performing TSB 10-06-01-008M. I made a lot of posts here w/pics last Nov & Dec when I was doing all this work. There is a lot of gunk/crud built up inside the engine from its prior life.

https://f01.justanswer.com/ebrock63/cec66346-04c1-48e0-98a6-74c35af2c84e_2014+Engine+-+Oil+Consumption,+MIL+ON,+Engine+Runs+Rough.pdf

I cleaned the spark plugs, installed new wires, installed a catch can, and installed a remote engine oil bypass filtration setup utilizing 1 Amsoil EaBP90 spin-on filter. Before I fixed everything, the catch can was catching about 1oz of oil every 100 miles. Now it catches 1 oz every 2000 miles. I went 8000 mile without adding any oil.

Here are the results of the first UOA. The oil is Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5-40w that is SN rated w/8000 mostly hwy miles(25% remaining) and a NAPA 47060 Platinum oil filter. I did not change the oil and filter when I took the sample. I always wait till I see the results first.
Wear Metals(ppm)
Iron - 39
Chromium - 1
Nickel - 0
Aluminum - 6
Copper - 10
Lead - 9
Tin - 0
Cadmium - 0
Silver - 0
Vanadium - 0

Contaminant Metals(ppm)
Silicon - 31
Sodium - 31
Potassium - 3

Multi-Source Metals(ppm)
Titanium - 1
Molybdenum - 51
Antimony - 0
Manganese - 0
Lithium - 0
Boron - 37

Additive Metals(ppm)
Magnesium - 835
Calcium - 1311
Barium - 0
Phosphorus - 980
Zinc - 1212

No Contaminants

Fluid Properties
Viscosity 100C - 13.4
Total Base # - 2.58 KOH/g
Oxidation - 40 abs/cm
Nitration - 14 abs/0.1mm

The Lab, Oil Analyzers Inc(Polaris Laboratories), suggested that I change the oil because they thought the OXIDATION was high and that the total base # and Silicon were at moderate levels. I know that the oxidation wasn't TOO high because the viscosity was still at a normal level(13.4). This oil when its new is 13.8. When oxidation is too high, the viscosity will thicken.

I changed the oil, again w/Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 40w, and the filter with Fram XG10575. The EaBP90 bypass filter was drained, replenished, and re-installed.

I plan to give her another 8000k mile run, then send in another sample.

I alway cut open my old oil filters. Here are some picks of the NAPA Platinum 47060 oil filter at this oil change. Notice all the carbon in the bottom of the pleats. I think the Mobil Delvac 1 synthetic oil is slowly cleaning things up.
View media item 27790View media item 27793View media item 27792View media item 27791

Sub'd. I might learn something. I do mine every 2500-3000 miles.

 

[SnowDrifter]

Interestingly enough I just shortened my interval. Was at 3-4k, now I'm targeting 2.5-3k. Had a small amount of varnish on the internal engine bits, particularly down low. Yeah it wiped up in one swipe but it's still there. Woooo short trips FTW!

I am, however, curious. That's a lot of iron in the report!!

 

[intheburbs]

Full synthetic, every 5k miles. Maybe less if I'm towing heavy. I do that with all 6 of my vehicles, and past ones, and have never had an oil-related engine failure.

I don't see any point in trying to maximize oil life. It's cheap insurance. 5-quart jugs of Mobil 1 at Walmart for under $30. Do that for 200k miles, and you haven't even spent $1000. Hell, even with a quality oil filter added in for every change, you're still right around $1000.

Why mess around? Especially with an all-aluminum engine. I love my Denali, but I recognize that the engine is not as stout/durable as the iron-blocked 6.0 in my Suburban.

 

[SnowDrifter]

^^
I've gotten into many a fight with the folks on the oil forums about it. Just because the oil is serviceable doesn't mean it's necessarily ideal. Thinks like pH buffers break down and allow contaminants to attack your gaskets. And while it can keep most stuff in suspension, you'll inevitably get a bit of fallout and varnish on hot areas of the engine which unless you take that used oil and run a thin film oxidation test on it; you won't be able to catch.

To be frank, I think the oil analasys is borderline abused over there. You don't need it every oil change. That just eats up all those "cost savings" of running OCIs longer. If you want to do it to keep meticulous maintenance records, sure. But I think a periodic one every 30-50k or so is more than adequate for 99% of people. More or less a health check up in addition to your regular inspections.

I dunno... I'm rather liberal when it comes to my maintenance. Do it often, and if it's a choice between early and late, do it early. Even in vehicles with common, known issues in the engine or sealing department - I've yet to experience any of them and I fully attribute that to maintenance.

Chrysler 3.6 with oil leak and PCV issues? Nope. Never had any. Piston slap in my rig? Meh, pretty quiet compared to other rigs I've heard. Oil leaks? What are those? 15 year old gaskets still seal just fine. Infamous rear main seal? Bone dry. AMC 4.0 in an almost 20 year old wrangler that always leaks like a siv? Dude it's from '02 and clean enough to eat off of under there. Only ever replaced gaskets once during collision repair and that was ~7 years ago. etc etc



My point is.... Oil analysis isn't perfect, and there are a lot of things that can/will slip by those tests. It's useful, sometimes critical info don't get me wrong. You can catch failures early before they do any damage, such as a head gasket beginning to fail or a ****** injector leaking fuel and ruining your oil. But it isn't the be-all end-all.


Be smart, use your head, don't just think outside the box - think what the box does

Thanks OP for posting info

 

[iamdub]

First off, I thoroughly enjoy and appreciate your documenting of your findings and progress and your sharing of your UOA and filter results. This is very useful factual info.

My 2 cents is that I'm not going to spend all kinds of money on frequent UOAs or additional filtering devices. Not because I don't agree with them, but because others have already done it. There are many with engines in the same condition as mine that are operated in the same conditions and have reported plenty of data that I feel it's unnecessary to spend my own money and efforts doing my own testing. I figure that if I use the same oils they use and change it at or earlier than the mileages they do, then I should be ok. This doesn't totally apply to the additional filtering aspect since that can be nothing but beneficial. But, again, plenty others go for far longer mileages with just a good stock-replacement oil filter, good oil and sensible OCIs than I expect to go on my current motor.

I change mine at 5K because it's convenient for me. Sure, it could go longer, quite possibly twice as long. But then I'm running oil that's that much dirtier. The oil itself may be structurally sound and have plenty of anti-wear and detergent properties remaining but it's still gonna collect contaminants.

You can prolong oil changes but tires needing to be rotated is something you can't prolong. For our rigs, the ol' ~6,000-mile recommended rotation interval seems to apply just fine. I do that and an oil change every 5,000 miles because:

1: It's a good tire rotation schedule
2: I only have to get the Tahoe up on jack stands once for two different services
3: It's an OCI that's easily within the oil and filter's service lives
4: Doing the services every multiple of 5 is easy to remember

 

[thompsoj22]

To the OP, I also appreciate the posting of your results/testing, i liked your thread on the vehicle when you were getting it back to your mechanical standards and i know by the success you attained by doing all the extensive work yourself you absolutely have skills! But come on man, Pour new oil in that rig every 5k miles and smile when you do it, your vehicle is a success story dont treat it like a lab rat?

 

[Derick]

I'm in the 3-5k club too. Been subscribing to 5 qt of supertech full synth and a quart of MMO. Still get some lifter tick here and there, so that's why I'm still using the MMO.

 

[usnret]

I go with the 5k interval too. Usually keep my vehicles for a minimum of 200k. Have never had an lubrication related problem.

 

[mountie]

I consider the color / clarity of the oil on the dip stick & mileage. Not complicated.

 

[08HoeCD]

If nothing else, I appreciate the OP sharing findings. It's refreshing to see actual scientific data and test results as opposed to the typical 'well, I've always used X brand of oil and changed it every X miles, and I've never had a problem.'

 

[donjetman]

Remember me? I started this thread here last April. Go to my original post here to refresh your memory

Todays post has the results of UOA(used oil analysis) #2. Again, the lab is Oil Analyzers Inc(OAI) or Polaris Laboratories. See picture below.

The vehicle is a 07 Yukon Denali w/aluminum L92 6.2L w/147,000 miles now. We used the same oil this time as last time, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5-40w. Here's a link about the oil: https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Commercial-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-Delvac-1-ESP-5W40

The Oil Change Indicator said "50% Remaining" when I took this sample. This time the oil has 6163 miles and 119 hrs on it, which means I averaged 54+ mph. We did two 2000 mile hwy trips and the rest was local driving. We averaged 16.1 mpg, burnt 382 gallons of 89 octane Mid-grade unleaded. My catch can caught 1 oz of thin gasoline like liquid(see pic), not thick like oil. I did not add any makeup oil. Its down about 1/3rd of a qt from the full mark. When we bought it last Oct it burned and leaked more than 1 oz of oil per 100 miles. Not no more! (Read all my threads)

The reults are just as I thought they would be, GOOD! There is plenty of life left in the oil. I plan to leave the oil and the full flow filter in place for another 2000+ mile hwy trip I'll be doing soon. Then I plan to change the oil and full flow filter with the same. I might send in another sample then too.

I'm not worried about the "oxidation" because the viscosity hasn't changed. New it's 13.8, the report says it's 13.9. The lab doesn't know what this oils oxidation # is when new, so they can't give me an accurate recommendation about it. They want ME to send them a virgin sample on my nickel so as to educate them. I DON'T THINK SO! They don't have a BASELINE REFERENCE on this oil. They flagged it "RED"(severe) and they don't even know what it is when new. I gave them some grief about that last time and I will again.

What do yaw think again?

 

[thompsoj22]

Your test is accurate and valid reason to believe that factory oil change intervals can be followed or extended without harm to the components that require lubricity to prevent wear. But i do think that combustion by products/gases and the chemical compounds they create, the oxidation that results in reaction to metals is also just as important if not more so. Are you sure your not riding the razors edge in relation to pitting/corroding as the engine cools and electrolisis has it's way as the engine sits "static"with water vapors present, especially in the winter. I know you are a good mech, but i think your oil will end up corrosive long before it's lubricating qualities are gone. Im rambling! That oil looks dirty as crap! lol! im headed to wallmart and buying another 5qt's of mobil one 5/30 for $22! I followed your thread when you worked the bugs out of the vehicle, i know money isnt the reason you are testing the limits of oil. are you sure you feel good pulling the grades in Colo at 3500 rpm for 25 miles with oil that has 15k miles on it?

 

[mountie]

combustion by products/gases and the chemical compounds they create, the oxidation that results in reaction to metals is also just as important if not more so. Are you sure your not riding the razors edge in relation to pitting/corroding as the engine cools and electrolisis has it's way as the engine sits "static"with water vapors present,

I have heard same talk from my friend that has dyno tuned motorcycles for decades....... My friends that build race engines don't care about that ...race engines get refreshed.
"Long-lasting oil" ?? / then only change filter a couple times????? Nope.
Change oil at suggested intervals !!!!!!

 

[donjetman]

Again look at the first sentence of post #1. I appreciate those that appreciate what I'm doing.

Based on these 2 UOA reports for the Yukon, I think 8K to 9K miles is OK for this oil for the way we operate the vehicle. When I say OK, I mean I'm not changing it too early, or too late. If I'm wrong, hopefully we'll all learn something.

Below is a picture of all 10 UOA reports for my current daily driver, 07 FJ Cruiser, w/240hp 4.0L v6. It gets 20+ mpg doing 100% local driving. So its much easier on oil than the Yukon. The oil brand was Amsoil for the first 6 reports. You can see how high the "oxidation" levels were w/Amsoil and it didn't hurt a thing. The FJ now has 195k miles on it and doesn't burn or leak any oil. Like the Yukon, I run a engine oil bypass filtration system on it. Toyota says to run Super unleaded. It has seen nothing but regular unleaded. I'm getting away w/ mid-grade unleaded in the Yukon. The FJ has the same oil in it as the Yukon right now, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5-40w, and I will do a UOA on it before the year is out. The oil will have 10-12K miles on it. That will be interesting to see how it held up compared to the Yukon.

TBN, total base #, is "the additive package level" in the oil. The better the oil, it usually cost more, the more robust the additive package, and the longer the oil will last. Also, the better oil start out with a higher TBN#. This oil starts out new with a TBN# of 12. WalMart full synthetic, see #7 below, starts out at 10. And its not just the quanity of the additive pkg, its the quality too. I like to change the oil when the TBN gets down between 2 and 3. I've used Blackstone and OAI labs. OAI is more conservative and will flag the TBN# sooner, when it gets below 3, not Blackstone. If anyone uses Blackstone Lab, make sure to pay the extra $$ for TBN# etc.

 

[gooffeyguy]

Just curious, I've never had my oil analyzed, about how much does it cost?

2001 Yukon SLT
2012 Yukon Denali XL
2011 Yukon Denali RIP 5/20/18

 

[mountie]

Your numbers are good........

But, since changing my oil is one of the cheapest chores to do, I am not going to stretch a few miles.

 

[donjetman]

Just curious, I've never had my oil analyzed, about how much does it cost?

Retail thru the Amsoil website = $34
I pay $20/yr to be a preferred customer so my discounted price is $28.35 thru the Amsoil website.
I make an order online and 1 or 2 days later its at my house. Shipping is free if I order more than $75 worth of stuff.

OAI website: http://oaitesting.com/
Amsoil retail: https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/other-products/oil-analysis-services/

 

[gooffeyguy]

So about the cost of an oil change, maybe a bit less?

2001 Yukon SLT
2012 Yukon Denali XL
2011 Yukon Denali RIP 5/20/18

 

[HiHoeSilver]

Just curious, I've never had my oil analyzed, about how much does it cost?

2001 Yukon SLT
2012 Yukon Denali XL
2011 Yukon Denali RIP 5/20/18

Retail thru the Amsoil website = $34
I pay $20/yr to be a preferred customer so my discounted price is $28.35 thru the Amsoil website.
I make an order online and 1 or 2 days later its at my house. Shipping is free if I order more than $75 worth of stuff.

OAI website: http://oaitesting.com/
Amsoil retail: https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/other-products/oil-analysis-services/

I use Blackstone Labs. Its $28. Plus $10 for the TBN which is optional.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?se...abs.net/Bstone/(S(x2velq55fzpk1355pmwtx555))/