No codes, power loss

[iamdub]

The MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor could be faulty, but I'm talking about the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor. The MAF is in the intake air tract and can be affected by buildup of dirt/oil. The MAP isn't in any real danger of this, but can still cause drivability problems. Again, all of this could easily be checked by competent use of a scan tool.

 

[jfoj]

OK, Android, this is helpful because there are some small variations between Android and iProducts.

I would hold off on chasing sensors, even a "dirty" MAF should have been obvious to a decent mechanic. I rarely find "cleaning" a MAF does anything else to improve things. Some MAF's may benefit from cleaning in some situations, but they are rare situations.

Try to get a DropBox Free account set up while you are waiting on the interface, this will save a bit of time.

I will try to post some info about setting up the App and Interface. In general the first thing that needs to happen is the Phone and Interface need to be Paired via Bluetooth. I hope whoever is on the side with the phone and vehicle is willing to work with the initial set up. Once the App is set up things are pretty easy from there.

 

[jfoj]

So something for you to think about and I am testing this out now.

If you/whom ever owns the Android device is comfortable allowing me to remotely connect to the device. I may be able to do a lot of the background work in setting up and viewing data from the vehicle.

This is using a commercial remote access program and the end user has to launch the Remote Connection App, provide me a ID number then they have to allow me to connect.

Just something to think about because I assume the person driving the vehicle is not so technical savvy and may not understand how to do a lot of the things needed to get everything set up.

 

[blackhawk17]

She got the Veepeak and hooked it up, I got the Dropbox set up, and she ran it last night to see what came up. She didn't drive it, just let it sit at idle while we talked. Everything seems to work fine, only the log file it sent to Dropbox only consisted of time, lat/long, and vehicle speed.

I don't know if that was because she was only sitting at idle or if setup needs to be changed.


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[jfoj]

There is a bit more to it that just connecting the tool up unfortunately. This will hopefully change a bit in the future.

Here is some more info, you may want to forward this on or have her come view the info here. It takes some time to find your way around the tool.

Hopefully this does not scare her off!!! One thing I need to make clear up front, it this data is not 100% vetted for the GM V8, there may be some small tweaks we need to make for the PID's to Log.

You need to learn how to use the Logging function, this is the most useful part of the tool. It allows people like myself to see what is going on with the car and saves 40-50 posts on each thread. Every time the App is connected it is Logging.

So here is some information that may be useful. But you also need to spend 20 minutes playing with the App. Please note anytime you perform a Diagnostic Report, please have the engine running.

Read this in detail:

OBDFusion is FAR more intuitive than other Apps.

First change the MAF reading from Pounds/Min to Grams/Sec, stupid EASY.

Settings, Units, Airflow menus, choose g/s.

Temp sometimes can be more useful in C vs F, but no so critical.

Settings, Log Setup then set the following:

Logging Enabled - checked

Logging Trigger - choose Trigger at a fixed sample time

Sample Time - choose 1000 msec

Log GPS Items - suggest you unselect it as to not advertise where you live

Select Items to Log - This varies a bit for each car. But here is a list I like to see:

Fuel - do not check any of these 3 items

SAE PID's:

Fuel system 1 status
Fuel system 2 status
Calculated load value
Engine coolant temperature
Short term fuel % trim - Bank 1
Long term fuel % trim - Bank 1
Short term fuel % trim - Bank 2
Long term fuel % trim - Bank 2
Engine RPM
Vehicle speed
Ignition timing advance for #1 cylinder
Intake air temperature
Mass air flow rate
O2 Voltage (Bank 1, Sensor 1)
O2 Voltage (Bank 1, Sensor 2)
O2 Voltage (Bank 2, Sensor 1)
O2 Voltage (Bank 2, Sensor 2)
Input Voltage read by the scan tool

Before any codes are cleared, get the Freeze Frame data and email or save the screen shot if this is an option. Freeze Frame data saves about 20+ questions as to what is going on.

Once of the most useful things is a Diagnostic Report. This needs to be run and uploaded to DropBox. This feature can be found under Diagnostic, Reports. The "Report" tab is not always visible depending on the device you are using. A Right to Left screen swipe may be required or just turn the phone/tablet from portrait to landscape to find the "Report" tab on the top right. Once you find the "Report" tab, touch it and this will run a Diagnostic Report. I need the Diagnostic Report run while the engine is running, helps if the engine is warmed up, but does not need to be fully warmed up. SPECIAL NOTE, there will be a warning that pops up about not running the Diagnostic Report while the engine is running, ignore this warning, and run the Diagnostic Report nothing bad will happen, this is just a Liability cover for the App developer. The report may take as long as 30-45 seconds to run, it will be obvious when it is complete because under the PID Snapshot there will be something like 20 PID found.

I HIGHLY recommend to Save the Report before it is uploaded to DropBox just in case there are any problems. Touch the floppy disc icon to save the report. I do not recall if there is an acknowledgement that the Report was saved.

I like to see 3 baseline Logs.

Cold start from overnight. Turn ignition on and get App connected before you start the engine. Start the engine and let it idle for 5 minutes in Park or Neutral, do not touch the throttle. After 5 minutes, disconnect the App to stop the Log so it is not too large.

Warm idle for 4 minutes. You can connect the App while the engine is running, the disconnect the App after 4 minutes.

Warm highway cruise fro 4 minutes. Try to find a flat/level road without much traffic. 50-65 MPH range, hold as steady as possible and/or use cruise control.

After you get the Logs, upload them to DropBox and long with any screen shots or Diagnostic reports. Then choose the Share option in DropBox, then copy and paste the URL back in the thread for my review.

 

[afpj]

I wouldn't consider replacing the fuel pump a waste especially if it was the original. It was a ticking time bomb (or dud/UXO if ya know what I mean). As far as trying things starting cheap, cleaning the MAF with MAF specific spray couldn't hurt, may actually help, if done properly. (this is the only point I somewhat disagree with jfoj). Otherwise as has been said, look at fuel trims...could help diagnose a vacuum leak, O2 sensor failing etc. Good luck

 

[jfoj]

Fuel Trims will give a good idea for MAF behavior. But if the vehicle has been reasonably maintained with a air filter changes, not run without an air filter and not run with the oiled cone style air filter that may have been over oiled, usually the MAF will be clean.

You can clean it, does not cost much, but every one of my 6 vehicles, as old as 20 years old have never had the MAF cleaned. I find MAF cleaning an Internet sensation propagate typically by people grabbing at straws that have no real automotive diagnosis and repair ability that are looking for a "Mechanic In A Can" solution.

 

[afpj]

I have several "mechanics in a can" LOL. I thought I read that the OP did have an oiled air filter.

jfoj, are you partial to OBDfusion over Torque, or they about the same? trying to edumicate myself. thx

 

[jfoj]

I have several "mechanics in a can" LOL. I thought I read that the OP did have an oiled air filter.

jfoj, are you partial to OBDfusion over Torque, or they about the same? trying to edumicate myself. thx

I thought I had read the OP might have an oiled air filter, but this by itself is not necessarily a death sentence for a MAF. Although I may be somewhat new around here, I deal with A LOT of different forums, both Foreign and Domestic and I have been for a LONG time. I try not to commit every vehicle and problem to memory because I just do not have the storage capacity to keep every single detail for every forum post straight.

So as for OBDFusion and Torque, here is the story.

1. Torque was one of the first lower cost Android OBDII Apps available, in the early days, this was an App I used and would recommend. BUT like anything, time had allowed other Apps to be developed. I found a number of bugs and short comings with Torque and over time found that there was no easy way to provide SOLID feedback to the Torque developer. All feedback had to go through the Torque Forums. For the record, I am not OBDII or Scan tool novice, I have more money tied up in OBDII and Scan tools as well as software than most people have in one or more of their vehicles. I provide feedback to consumer grade OBDII tools and Apps as well to the big name Profession level 5 figure scan tool vendors.

So after finding many bugs with Torque and then working with OBDFusion (formerly known as Touch Scan), I found the OBDFusion developer was VERY open to feedback, both positive and negative. I also found that the OBDFusion developer was usually pretty quick to incorporate fixes, changes and new feature requests. Then I found that the OBDFusion App price was dropped to $1 below the Torque App, so it became a NO BRAINER. Then the OBDFusion developer ported his to iProducts/iOS, then there was finally a consistent and low cost OBDII App that operated on the 2 primary phone/tablet platforms that are available.

I continue to provide feedback to the OBDFusion developer and as recent as the 4.0.0 release there are features requested that were added. At the moment the developer has added Ford/Mazda Enhanced Manufacturer support and is currently working on Toyota. These Add-Ons are $10 for each model year for each manufacturer which is a pretty good deal for a DIYer that will give you up to 650 PID's covering all major systems on the vehicle.

NOW the bad news, not sure GM will be supported by OBDFusion anytime soon. GM wants like $50k to put your toe in the water, then they have like a $5k annual commitment. If you ever decide to not renew the annual commitment, then you have Licensing issues where you then have to removed any GM support you have ever added for your product!!! This kind of makes even Apple look tame in comparison to GM.

But anyway, hopefully you understand my preference for OBDFusion, first it is $1 less than Torque, less bugs, developer is open to feedback and quickly resolves bugs or adds new features, the same App is available for iOS and there is some Enhanced Manufacturer support for some product lines.

 

[blackhawk17]

1. Yeah, I actually meant MAF sensor the other day, irrelevant at this point.

2. The settings have been adjusted, not exactly per your suggestions listed above, but I'm working on it.

3. I do have a CAI with a conical oiled air filter. However, this issue was present before I had my mother clean the air filter. So I'm going to assume she didn't over-saturate the filter per my request.

4. I have Dropbox set up already, and have already seen several reports of GPS position and speed, and nothing else. Hence, I had her go into the log setup and add basically everything for now until I figure out what actually gets sent, what is needed, etc. Of course it looks like you just told me. I'm just waiting for more log files. I basically get a notification on my phone every time she drives, which is kind of funny.

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[jfoj]

As long as you can figure out how to "share" a file or folder in DropBox then you are good to go once she is able to gather data. You typically just Share or attempt to email a file or folder and DropBox will generate a URL, just copy the URL and post is back here in the forum so I can download the .CSV file. If you are tying to do all of this from your phone, not sure how easy it would be to get and copy the URL and paste the URL here?? Might be easier on a computer, but tell me how you end up doing it. I have never attempted to do this from directly from a phone to a forum but I am always open to having someone try the new tricks! I have my 2005 6.0l Yukon Denali that I can compare some values against, the only thing that may be slightly different is the MAF reading if your vehicle has the 5.3l.

I know you can get an idle Log without a problem, assume she would at least drive the car around the neighborhood?

If the car is driven and the problem happens, have her note approximately how long into the ride the problem happens so the event could possibly be matched up to something in the Log. Unfortunately at this time there is not a way for the user to input a marker in the Log while driving to note an event.

Also keep in mind if you have an Android and it is tied to the same Google Play account, you can download the App on your phone for no extra charge. It might give you some ability to go screen by screen to help out where the App will work without being connected to a OBDII port. If there is a need for OBDII support where you are currently stationed, have another interface tossed into the APO/FPO.

 

[blackhawk17]

Tracking all. Unfortunately, it appears as though the Veepeak has already crapped out.

I haven't received a log file in the last two days. I thought it was because I had her change the settings and then the file may have been too large or something. But after reviewing the last log file that I received, I graphed the speed (for the hell of it) and noticed that the log file cuts off while she's still driving at about 35mph. So, it stopped transmitting data or something. And I haven't got anything since.

I had her check out the device and the red light still shows, and while driving her app shows everything like it's working. She's setup to sync the log files with Dropbox, so I don't know what's going on. But the fact that it stopped recording while she was driving leafs me to believe that something is wrong.

But her phone still charts everything just like it did, so that leads me took believe that she changed something, while I'm sure she didn't while driving.

Are these prone to failure? I'll just replace it, but I might try a different manufacturer.

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[jfoj]

Honestly, this would be the first VeePeak failure I have heard of. I have continued to recommended these because they are cheap and have been reliable, I would say easily I have suggest that hundreds of people purchase the VeePeak interfaces and this is the first time I have had anyone say they are having problems. It might have a problem or might have failed. I hate to speculate, but a few things to consider.

1. Has the phone been restarted? I know some of the older Androids like mine are short on RAM and I have all sorts of problems with the number of Apps on my phone and I need to make sure I close all the Apps in the background, but often I just need to restart the phone.

2. Did you buy/do you know if the interface you purchased has the switch on it? Make sure the interface is actually turned on.

3. Have you had her pull the interface out, so effectively it has been fully powered down? Sometimes these interfaces do not like the Voltage drop when the engine is started if the battery is slightly low on charge. I know at least my Denali has the alternator that is turned on and off by the ECU and I often put a maintenance charge on my truck. Also the vehicle has OnStar and sits for more than a day at a time, many of the OnStar units have been known to go stupid or have problems and but a constant drain on the battery.

4. Is there some sort of Bluetooth device like a hands free headset, A2DP device or something else paired that may be interfering or taking priority over the App or VeePeak interface?

5. Do you know if the phone may have the GPS on or is Waze or Maps being used? I find that the more things the phones are doing, the less reliable the Logging may be.

6. Check to make sure the phone, if supported, has a Power Saving mode and is it enabled. I find that if my tablet is in Power Saving mode, I cannot properly use Team Viewer to remotely access the tablet and actually navigate screens, I can usually connect, but then things get stupid if Power Saving is enabled.

7. Do you know if the phone is being used at the same time as the App is Logging? I know how chatty the ladies get when they drive around, seems they always want to be talking to someone!

The interfaces are cheap enough and if you have more than one car, it is not a bad idea to leave an interface for each car anyway. I know this is frustrating because it delays things if you need to order another interface. I would still buy another VeePeak unless you want to get a higher quality interface.

If you want a quality interface the OBDLink interface is one of the fastest and more reliable interfaces available. It is actually firmware upgradable but you are looking at like $70. I do not often recommend these at first due to the cost and I do not want people to shy away from from using an OBDII App. I have one and use it, but I also have a few VeePeak interfaces as well. I think you may be seeing this is actually a very powerful tool. People discount OBDII all the time, but I have been working with it since it inception. It has just recently become even more powerful to the the lower cost App and the interfaces that allow so much more than tools of even 5 years ago can do. Even the 5 figure Professional scan tools, and yes I have many, do not support data Logging like these low cost Apps.

I would try the basics first, I know this whole project is being worked 3rd hand if you know what I mean. I hope your wife it patient, I know most are not, but she is pretty resilient if you are not local and we have made it this far. Trust me it will be worthwhile when all is said and done, I cannot guarantee you we will find and pinpoint and exact problem, but we will at least be able to hopefully figure out what looks normal and this may be a process of elimination at the end of the day.

Any intermittent problem sucks to deal with, but I take the approach to let the data tell the story, if there is one. Go in with an open mind and start to eliminate things by looking at the data and making some assumptions. You cannot usually find the problem until you determine what is actually functioning properly, once you know what is functioning properly you can then start to narrow in on what may not be functioning properly.

 

[blackhawk17]

I just talked to the wife on the phone. She has logging enabled, and all of the settings suggested by yourself.

She sees the info on her graph and dashboard page, but she doesn't have any recent log files. The last couple of days of her driving have not been recorded. So it's not a problem with me receiving the files, they're not being saved on her end. But it appears as though all of the settings are correct.

Her phone is relatively new I think, it's a Galaxy S6. I've asked about having apps open or maybe talking on the phone.




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[jfoj]

Not sure if the Log files are always automatically uploaded to DropBox.

Have her go the "Logs" tab, then click/touch the "Files" tab. There should be a list of every Log that was created and it will be listed by Date and time, then below in blue the Log time and distance will be listed. Distance will only have a value if the proper PID's for distance are supported, some cars do not support all PID's so the distance may show as 0 miles.

If the tool is connected, it should be creating Logs if everything is set up properly.

If there are Logs that were not uploaded to DropBox, touch the Log, a box will pop up, touch "Share" then have her resend it to DropBox and/or email it to you.

 

[jfoj]

Any update or progress?

 

[blackhawk17]

Yeah, kind of at a standstill. I had her confirm settings were correct and asked her to not use her phone to see if it would help. I received a log file that had all of the desired info but only one line of readings.

So I don't know. There's not really anything else I can do from here and it's a lot of trouble trying to mess with it from here. I think I've lost interest.

She'll keep driving, maybe she'll remember to use the program and maybe I'll get some files, and I'll go from there.

In spite of the drivability issues, it still drives, and it hasn't died on her. So as long as she's content she's not going to want to keep messing with it either.

If I have any more updates I'll let you know. Thanks for your help.

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[jfoj]

Unless the "management" puts in the effort, hard to get anything resolved.

I am sure this will rear its ugly head again at some point.

Good luck.

 

[retiredsparky]

Matt, thank you for your service overseas. I hope you stay safe and return to your family soon!

 

[blackhawk17]

Ok, I finally have an update! I emailed OCTech Service (OBDFusion people) finally and just asked a couple of questions, to which they responded literally within a few minutes.

Simple settings issues. I had the GPS turned off, and that was the main issue.

So that being said I have my first REAL log file. I'm trying to sort my way through it now.

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