Lifters

[Mel Chapa]

Purchased my 2021 Yukon SLT in February of this year. 5k miles on it.. SUV was driving very rough, shaking as though it wanted to shut down.. Several alerts/alarms on dash -engine light, front collateral , traction light, emissions control. Had vehicle towed and was told I had bad lifters with bent rods .. I have no idea what this even means. Found out later that this is a motor issue.. How can this happen to a new vehicle ? I have had 3 brand new Toyota four runners and had never experienced anything like this.. My first GMC purchase and I am disgusted . I do not trust this vehicle to be safe anymore . What is your experience once these are replaced ? What will my resale value be ? Is this recorded on car max ? I will definitely be trading this in ASAP .. and will never ever buy a GMC

 

[STORMIN08]

out trollin are we ???

if true, which i highly doubt, the LIFTER ISSUE ( caused by DOD) if a very well known risk to all new 1500 series GM V8 gas engines

 

[hcvone]

I have had 12 Escalade's and 2 Tahoe's, and live in upstate NY where is snows in feet, I pull stuck four runners out every year. Could you have bent push rods and bad lifters, sure anything is possible, maybe owner misuse. Have you had it checked for any stored error codes?

 

[Joseph Garcia]

It sounds like you have already made your decision, regarding your GMC truck. One wonders why you even bothered to join this Forum.

However, you absolutely have a right to your opinions, and the right to make decisions, based upon those opinions. And, I support that.

I wish you the best of outcomes.

 

[Quark]

Purchased my 2021 Yukon SLT in February of this year. 5k miles on it.. SUV was driving very rough, shaking as though it wanted to shut down.. Several alerts/alarms on dash -engine light, front collateral , traction light, emissions control. Had vehicle towed and was told I had bad lifters with bent rods .. I have no idea what this even means. Found out later that this is a motor issue.. How can this happen to a new vehicle ? I have had 3 brand new Toyota four runners and had never experienced anything like this.. My first GMC purchase and I am disgusted . I do not trust this vehicle to be safe anymore . What is your experience once these are replaced ? What will my resale value be ? Is this recorded on car max ? I will definitely be trading this in ASAP .. and will never ever buy a GMC

Welcome to TYF. The lifter problem on the 8 cyl GMs is a common one. Several recent buyers have posted they are selling their recently purchased GM SUVs.

Nothing in your post can be disputed as GM has opened itself to criticism from a quality standpoint. As a former GM employee I suspect declining quality has much to do with replacing experienced engineers and employees with lower paid and less experienced personnel. I remember once while doing calibration in the Delco Labs a young mechanical engineer doing testing and data gathering analysis on electrical devices in temperature controlled chambers. As an electrician I tried to help him as much as I possibly could GM was always putting employees in helpless situations as everyone in their eyes was interchangeable. Continual cost cutting while maintaining quality is an art and GM isn't a very good artist. Let's hope they improve.

 

[Stbentoak]

Welcome to TYF. The lifter problem on the 8 cyl GMs is a common one. Several recent buyers have posted they are selling their recently purchased GM SUVs.

Nothing in your post can be disputed as GM has opened itself to criticism from a quality standpoint. As a former GM employee I suspect declining quality has much to do with replacing experienced engineers and employees with lower paid and less experienced personnel. I remember once while doing calibration in the Delco Labs a young mechanical engineer doing testing and data gathering analysis on electrical devices in temperature controlled chambers. As an electrician I tried to help him as much as I possibly could GM was always putting employees in helpless situations as everyone in their eyes was interchangeable. Continual cost cutting while maintaining quality is an art and GM isn't a very good artist. Let's hope they improve.

Heck that's happening all over ! I sold my business ( Precision Aerospace machine shop) years back because the talent pool I needed was drying up. My top 10 people out of appx 80 were retiring in the next 5 years and I knew they were 80% of the reason we were profitable. Most people today... a job is a job... Nothing to get excited or passionate about, that for sure. My older employees took extreme pride in their jobs, never missed a day or came in drunk or stoned. They also actually worked their 10 hour shift, not playing on their phones or sneaking out to smoke or vape.
As suspected... my thoughts came true, as within 2 years of the sale they went from Highly profitable to break even or losses and the good people flat out quit or retired early due to poor management. They have never done well since... It has to be tough trying to be a highly esteemed quality business/supplier to critical industries today.

 

[Quark]

Heck that's happening all over ! I sold my business ( Precision Aerospace machine shop) years back because the talent pool I needed was drying up. My top 10 people out of appx 80 were retiring in the next 5 years and I knew they were 80% of the reason we were profitable. Most people today... a job is a job... Nothing to get excited or passionate about, that for sure. My older employees took extreme pride in their jobs, never missed a day or came in drunk or stoned. They also actually worked their 10 hour shift, not playing on their phones or sneaking out to smoke or vape.
As suspected... my thoughts came true, as within 2 years of the sale they went from Highly profitable to break even or losses and the good people flat out quit or retired early due to poor management. They have never done well since... It has to be tough trying to be a highly esteemed quality business/supplier to critical industries today.

Though it sounds that poor management hastened the inevitable. Hiring from a pool of an increasingly indignant population would be a daunting task especially finding managers who can make or break systems that were once quite efficient. Our plant once hired a guard off the gate as a skilled trades supervisor. He knew nothing about the trades or managing and was a real bonehead. It was demoralizing to work for him. GM always had a pattern of self destruction, the nightmares are less frequent as the years go by.

 

[swathdiver]

Purchased my 2021 Yukon SLT in February of this year. 5k miles on it.. SUV was driving very rough, shaking as though it wanted to shut down.. Several alerts/alarms on dash -engine light, front collateral , traction light, emissions control. Had vehicle towed and was told I had bad lifters with bent rods .. I have no idea what this even means. Found out later that this is a motor issue.. How can this happen to a new vehicle ? I have had 3 brand new Toyota four runners and had never experienced anything like this.. My first GMC purchase and I am disgusted . I do not trust this vehicle to be safe anymore . What is your experience once these are replaced ? What will my resale value be ? Is this recorded on car max ? I will definitely be trading this in ASAP .. and will never ever buy a GMC

You bought a first year complete redesign model in which a narrow run of VINs have some faulty parts in their engine. Your 3 4-Runners were all the same and the design hadn't changed in a long long time, apples to oranges comparison.

Once your engine is replaced, the vehicle will continue to be fantastic and will offer a level of luxury and performance that a 4-Runner isn't even designed to compete with.

 

[jayoco]

Welcome to TYF. The lifter problem on the 8 cyl GMs is a common one. Several recent buyers have posted they are selling their recently purchased GM SUVs.

Nothing in your post can be disputed as GM has opened itself to criticism from a quality standpoint. As a former GM employee I suspect declining quality has much to do with replacing experienced engineers and employees with lower paid and less experienced personnel. I remember once while doing calibration in the Delco Labs a young mechanical engineer doing testing and data gathering analysis on electrical devices in temperature controlled chambers. As an electrician I tried to help him as much as I possibly could GM was always putting employees in helpless situations as everyone in their eyes was interchangeable. Continual cost cutting while maintaining quality is an art and GM isn't a very good artist. Let's hope they improve.

Every manufacturer is working to cut costs. The good ones have been doing it since the beginning of time and that's why they're still around. The fact that dealers are replacing these lifters with fixed parts tells me the supplier produced a bad batch.

 

[jayoco]

Purchased my 2021 Yukon SLT in February of this year. 5k miles on it.. SUV was driving very rough, shaking as though it wanted to shut down.. Several alerts/alarms on dash -engine light, front collateral , traction light, emissions control. Had vehicle towed and was told I had bad lifters with bent rods .. I have no idea what this even means. Found out later that this is a motor issue.. How can this happen to a new vehicle ? I have had 3 brand new Toyota four runners and had never experienced anything like this.. My first GMC purchase and I am disgusted . I do not trust this vehicle to be safe anymore . What is your experience once these are replaced ? What will my resale value be ? Is this recorded on car max ? I will definitely be trading this in ASAP .. and will never ever buy a GMC

What is your build date?

 

[21TahoeDisappoint]

I beg to differ on the view that it is faulty parts. If that were the case, GM would have announced a recall. They would know the supplier of the faulty parts, the shipment lot of the faulty parts, and the vehicle manufacture date of the vehicles with the faulty parts. The fact that there isn't a recall speaks volumes. This is a design flaw. This is very common. My 2021 Tahoe High Country experienced this at 7,400 miles. The dealer was very familiar with the issue. I had the Christmas Tree of warning lights before the issue became apparent, which I suspect was due to cylinder misfire before the bent rods and springs got so bad that the engine started knocking and shaking.

In my view, the fact that GM will only replace the impacted cylinder bank at this time means that its only a matter of time before the issue happens again. There are many posts on social media and the Chevy/Yukon etc. message boards. To me it sounds like an oil pressure/cylinder deactivation design problem.

Why is GM being so silent on this? Probably because there is no solution yet, and the magnitude of the problem in terms of financial and reputational impact is significant.

 

[Quark]

You bought a first year complete redesign model in which a narrow run of VINs have some faulty parts in their engine. Your 3 4-Runners were all the same and the design hadn't changed in a long long time, apples to oranges comparison.

Once your engine is replaced, the vehicle will continue to be fantastic and will offer a level of luxury and performance that a 4-Runner isn't even designed to compete with.

Please excuse and correct me if I'm wrong, the broken valve springs were attributed to a limited run of faulty parts but the collapsed lifter/bent push rods failure is an ongoing problem and has been reported regularly by truck owners for years.

 

[Quark]

Every manufacturer is working to cut costs. The good ones have been doing it since the beginning of time and that's why they're still around. The fact that dealers are replacing these lifters with fixed parts tells me the supplier produced a bad batch.

You are stating the obvious that manufacturers are continually cutting costs. One other thing that keeps manufacturers in business is quality and continual improvement however if you look at American dependability rates we aren't doing it right.

If GM were dealing with a bad batch of potentially faulty lifters then why aren't they replacing all the lifters in an engine that had one fail? GM's lifter problem goes back years they know the failure rate and they gamble that these engines had a failure and the other lifters should be fine. The lifters aren't designed correctly or can't be manufactured to consistently perform as they are intended.

 

[swathdiver]

Please excuse and correct me if I'm wrong, the broken valve springs were attributed to a limited run of faulty parts but the collapsed lifter/bent push rods failure is an ongoing problem and has been reported regularly by truck owners for years.

In the Gen IV engines, there were three generations of AFM lifters which improved their function under various conditions. The number one cause of lifter failure though was not the lifters themselves but of VLOM failure. The solenoids in the VLOM either failing or getting out of time which caused the lifters to collapse or activate at the wrong time which in turn bent the pushrods and often worse. You're right and I was wrong, the limited run of faulty parts does indeed cover the valve springs and not the lifters.

AFM became very reliable after about 2011 and the GEN V motors even more so. But now the DFM engines it seems are having some growing pains, again, new technology (2019+).

 

[Quark]

In the Gen IV engines, there were three generations of AFM lifters which improved their function under various conditions. The number one cause of lifter failure though was not the lifters themselves but of VLOM failure. The solenoids in the VLOM either failing or getting out of time which caused the lifters to collapse or activate at the wrong time which in turn bent the pushrods and often worse. You're right and I was wrong, the limited run of faulty parts does indeed cover the valve springs and not the lifters.

AFM became very reliable after about 2011 and the GEN V motors even more so. But now the DFM engines it seems are having some growing pains, again, new technology (2019+).

I can tell you are more knowledgeable about this than I am. My 2012 has not had a problem and knowing this was corrected I can quit worrying.

One thing is certain, I won't be replacing my Ol' Hoe till they figure this out.

 

[jayoco]

You are stating the obvious that manufacturers are continually cutting costs. One other thing that keeps manufacturers in business is quality and continual improvement however if you look at American dependability rates we aren't doing it right.

If GM were dealing with a bad batch of potentially faulty lifters then why aren't they replacing all the lifters in an engine that had one fail? GM's lifter problem goes back years they know the failure rate and they gamble that these engines had a failure and the other lifters should be fine. The lifters aren't designed correctly or can't be manufactured to consistently perform as they are intended.

No, that's not what I'm inferring. I think you should read the OP and and then my response.

 

[Quark]

No, that's not what I'm inferring. I think you should read the OP and and then my response.

You didn't infer anything you stated, "The fact that dealers are replacing these lifters with fixed parts tells me the supplier produced a bad batch."

It is not a "bad batch".

 

[Stbentoak]

Regardless of “bad batches” where is the suppliers quality control?

I’d be lying if I said I never made a bad part in my business (Aerospace), but they never left my plant to go to any major engine supplier. If they did….people could die. I took that very seriously as a supplier and business owner. What if you were in the hospital and your ventilator had a bad “lifter” ? Bad quality put businesses like mine out of business in a matter of months if it got out into the world…..

 

[Quark]

Regardless of “bad batches” where is the suppliers quality control?

I’d be lying if I said I never made a bad part in my business (Aerospace), but they never left my plant to go to any major engine supplier. If they did….people could die. I took that very seriously as a supplier and business owner. What if you were in the hospital and your ventilator had a bad “lifter” ? Bad quality put businesses like mine out of business in a matter of months if it got out into the world…..

I'm currently going with the hypothesis that it's a failure of design. The PCM sends a signal to the high oil pressure solenoid to switch the lifter off and on at prescisly the right time. The problem might be programming, PCM fault, solenoid delay, oil pressure issue, or a vast array of assembly errors or parts nonconformity. The primary concern in designing the drivetrain is to comply with government mandates secondary is performance. What could go wrong with that?

 

[jayoco]

You didn't infer anything you stated, "The fact that dealers are replacing these lifters with fixed parts tells me the supplier produced a bad batch."

It is not a "bad batch".

Okey dokey.