Front end wander.

[grouch]

I have a problem with my '93 GMC C2500 RWD. The steering began to wander going down the road. I took it to a local tire shop for the front end to be checked. They told me the steering gear, idler arm and pitman arm needed replacement. They were worn and the gear was noisy to out they came and new parts went in. While I was under there, I grabbed the tie rods and they were tight. Took it out on the road and the wander was still there. No noise, but enough wander to induce the pucker factor. I stopped by a friends shop and checked the front end while the suspension was under load. Under droop, the tie rods were tight but under load, quite loose. All 4 tie rods and even the adjustment sleeves were replaced.

I went to a different front end shop for an alignment. At about 50 mph, the wander comes back. Now, the tires in back are new. I have 2 pairs of tires to put on the front. The pair I was using were swapped for another pair of used tires I bought for spares. The ones I had on the front were on it when it came out of a barn so they are at least 10 years old.

Both shops said the ball joints were good. I've had bad ball joints before and they didn't feel the same way. I've even checked the rear shackles in case one was cracked.

Anybody got any ideas? I got a newer, 4X4 truck so this one is for sale. If it needs tires, it will get them. I just don't want to throw money into a truck I'll be selling.

 

[Tonyrodz]

I have a problem with my '93 GMC C2500 RWD. The steering began to wander going down the road. I took it to a local tire shop for the front end to be checked. They told me the steering gear, idler arm and pitman arm needed replacement. They were worn and the gear was noisy to out they came and new parts went in. While I was under there, I grabbed the tie rods and they were tight. Took it out on the road and the wander was still there. No noise, but enough wander to induce the pucker factor. I stopped by a friends shop and checked the front end while the suspension was under load. Under droop, the tie rods were tight but under load, quite loose. All 4 tie rods and even the adjustment sleeves were replaced.

I went to a different front end shop for an alignment. At about 50 mph, the wander comes back. Now, the tires in back are new. I have 2 pairs of tires to put on the front. The pair I was using were swapped for another pair of used tires I bought for spares. The ones I had on the front were on it when it came out of a barn so they are at least 10 years old.

Both shops said the ball joints were good. I've had bad ball joints before and they didn't feel the same way. I've even checked the rear shackles in case one was cracked.

Anybody got any ideas? I got a newer, 4X4 truck so this one is for sale. If it needs tires, it will get them. I just don't want to throw money into a truck I'll be selling.

Upper/lower control arm bushings? They all good?

 

[Bill 1960]

How much free play (rotation) at the steering wheel before the front tire moves? And is the passenger side much difference vs driver’s side tire?

Any free play in the steering column shaft?

 

[Fless]

Do a thorough inspection of the rear end components, shocks, bushings, etc. Tighten all the bolts and nuts. Broken spring?

Wheel bearings good on front?

 

[swathdiver]

I have a problem with my '93 GMC C2500 RWD. The steering began to wander going down the road. I took it to a local tire shop for the front end to be checked. They told me the steering gear, idler arm and pitman arm needed replacement. They were worn and the gear was noisy to out they came and new parts went in. While I was under there, I grabbed the tie rods and they were tight. Took it out on the road and the wander was still there. No noise, but enough wander to induce the pucker factor. I stopped by a friends shop and checked the front end while the suspension was under load. Under droop, the tie rods were tight but under load, quite loose. All 4 tie rods and even the adjustment sleeves were replaced.

I went to a different front end shop for an alignment. At about 50 mph, the wander comes back. Now, the tires in back are new. I have 2 pairs of tires to put on the front. The pair I was using were swapped for another pair of used tires I bought for spares. The ones I had on the front were on it when it came out of a barn so they are at least 10 years old.

Both shops said the ball joints were good. I've had bad ball joints before and they didn't feel the same way. I've even checked the rear shackles in case one was cracked.

Anybody got any ideas? I got a newer, 4X4 truck so this one is for sale. If it needs tires, it will get them. I just don't want to throw money into a truck I'll be selling.

Tie rod and ball joint play is measured in hundreds or thousandths of an inch, too fine for us to tell by yanking on them. Gotta use a dial indicator. With tires ten years old I reckon you live up north, our are rotten after about 4 years. Anyway, I would replace them if they were mine, they can cause wandering too.

 

[TollKeeper]

Upper/lower control arm bushings? They all good?

Im agree with this one.. Bushings is where I would start looking... Especially on a nearly 30 year old truck!

 

[OR VietVet]

Vote #3 about the bushings and vote #2 for tire problems. Because of age I would also want to be sure the rag joint is not coming apart. There are metal brackets wrapped around the rubber in the rag joint that can hide problems. I am assuming you checked the frame mount area for cracks when you installed the new/reman gear box?

Also, as has been asked, make sure you check everything on the rear suspension. Broken centering pin, for the springs, causing a slight offset of the rear axle. Tires that are on the truck---same ply ratings or different?

 

[TollKeeper]

Because of age I would also want to be sure the rag joint is not coming apart. There are metal brackets wrapped around the rubber in the rag joint that can hide problems.

Forgive me here... RAG JOINT? Never heard of that?

EDIT: Googled it. Never heard it called that before. I have always called it a interconnect joint

 

[OR VietVet]

At RA they call it a steering connector. For 35+ years I was in auto repair shops and being as old as I am, we called it a rag joint. Not the actual name for it but all techs around my age at least know what rag joint is. Rigs that old, can have them.

 

[Tonyrodz]

At RA they call it a steering connector. For 35+ years I was in auto repair shops and being as old as I am, we called it a rag joint. Not the actual name for it but all techs around my age at least know what rag joint is. Rigs that old, can have them.

I also know this as a rag joint. The GN has one.

 

[George B]

Be nice if you shared a printout of the alignment numbers.

 

[OR VietVet]

Be nice if you shared a printout of the alignment numbers.

I should have asked the same thing. Taking to the shops for alignment that, "set the toe and let it go", can contribute to the problems.

 

[grouch]

I should have asked the same thing. Taking to the shops for alignment that, "set the toe and let it go", can contribute to the problems.

The last shop said everything was a breeze except the camber and caster adjustments on the upper control arm so I know the front got an actual alignment. Today, I couldn't get all the tape off after painting the truck so I used it for a parts run. It hadn't had it before but it feels like a bad ball joint. There's a sort of drop and swoop feeling lower ball joints give. Definitely there. I've got a pair each of upper and lower ball joints on order.

As for slop and play in the steering, there isn't any. It drives as tight as my '16 Mazda. Everything but the ball joints is new. The rag joint (yes, I'm old and call it that) is in good shape.

I'm selling the truck so I'd just as soon let the next owner get the tires he (or she) wants. The back ones are new and ran me nearly $900 as they are 10 ply heavy duty tires.

 

[OR VietVet]

The best way to check the ball joints, IMO, is the obvious you can see with loaded under the lower control arm and check play with a pry bar and I also like to disconnect the outer tie rod and then see how easily you can grab the tire at 3&6 and see how much effort it takes to turn the wheel left and right. A tight ball joint showing no play with a pry bar can still have a binding problem.

So, to get an answer, did you get a before and after print out for the alignment?

 

[George B]

I would think a shop would have caught a bad ball joint when doing an alignment.

 

[OR VietVet]

It depends on how thorough that shop is. If you have a problem vehicle and the alignment readings look good, then you have to get creative. Like my tie rod disconnect. I have assumed before and wished I hadn't.

 

[George B]

It depends on how thorough that shop is. If you have a problem vehicle and the alignment readings look good, then you have to get creative. Like my tie rod disconnect. I have assumed before and wished I hadn't.

The shop I work with (also one I worked for in the past) will not only find them but indicate by measurement how much they move if loose. Going there is like going to the dentist. You just hope against hope everything is ok and they don't find loose parts. I always do a shake down before I go.

 

[OR VietVet]

I see what you are saying but a binding ball joint may have no play. I was taught a long time ago. It is just how a-n-a-l I can be sometimes when inspecting for a problem.

 

[George B]

I see what you are saying but a binding ball joint may have no play. I was taught a long time ago. It is just how a-n-a-l I can be sometimes when inspecting for a problem.

I agree and have experienced them too. Usually they pull one way then the other when corrected. A good shop will find them too when they do a “sweep” and one hangs.

 

[grouch]

During the pandemic, the best shop in town closed up when the owner spent several weeks in the hospital. He still isn't 100% so he has basically retired. The ones left, deal mostly with routine alignments on newer vehicles.

Like I said earlier, I finally got the feeling of a failing lower ball joint under motion. I've got new ones on order and when I get back from a short trip, I'll pop them in. I've even checked the rear shackles and spring leafs.