Chevrolet Suburban 3500 Questions

[West 1]

I did not catch. what engine is in your 3500 Suburban? The 5.3L might be limited to 8,000 pound tow capacity but the larger engine, 6.0 or 6.2 I bet is good for more. 3,000 is an mis print or bad information. Maybe they meant 13,000, with 4.10's that is more like it.

 

[West 1]

Curiosity had me searching for information on this. I found this quote. To me it sounds like they just put no priority on Tow Capacity but were focused on Payload capacity, 4400 pound payload. You could park most cars inside and drive off. HA. The article gives the history. Based on the HD Frame, Brakes, Cooling, axles, tires etc. I would be very comfortable towing up to 10,000 with that vehicle regardless of the screwy rating from GM, just don't add 4,000 pounds of armor and then try to tow.


"That said, GM also offered a heavy-duty version of the Suburban, marketed as the Suburban 3500HD, starting with the 2016 model year.

Given the Suburban’s pickup roots, one would expect the Suburban HD model to offer the same powertrain and extra towing capacity of its Silverado HD counterpart, but this is only somewhat the case. The eleventh-generation Suburban HD began sales for the 2016 model year and was offered through 2020. It came with a 6.0-liter gas V8 engine making 360 horsepower and 380 lb-ft of torque; the same gas engine offered in GM’s line of heavy-duty trucks. No diesel engine was offered. While you’d expect it to offer the same towing capacity as GM’s full-size heavy-duty trucks, this isn’t the case. Rather, the emphasis is placed on increasing the vehicle’s GVWR and payload capacity. This is achieved through things like an upgraded frame, bigger brakes, heavier-duty cooling systems, and 8-lug wheels. In the Suburban 3500HD, this rolls up to a GVWR of 11,000lbs and payload capacity of a 4,405lbs; almost three times that of a regular 2016 ‘Burban. Towing capacity is greatly reduced though, down from 8,000lbs to 3,000lbs. The idea here is that the vehicle comes from the factory ready for upfitting by third parties. Many are armored and bulletproofed for use in tactical settings, though there are certainly other applications for a heavy-duty Chevrolet Suburban as well.

Unfortunately, the 2016-2020 Suburban HD was only offered to fleet customers. While it couldn’t be bought new by a private citizen, it is possible to find a 2016-2020 Suburban HD on the used market, though they’re tough to come by, and generally carry a high pricetag. As I’m writing this, there are just three Suburban HDs listed for sale on Autotrader, with the cheapest being a 2016 model with just under 93,000 miles on the clock and an asking price of $44,685. That’s not cheap, but as GM has stated that it doesn’t plan to offer the all-new 2021 Suburban in an HD guise, expect these unique Suburbans to hold their values quite well going forward."

 

[Geotrash]

I did not catch. what engine is in your 3500 Suburban? The 5.3L might be limited to 8,000 pound tow capacity but the larger engine, 6.0 or 6.2 I bet is good for more. 3,000 is an mis print or bad information. Maybe they meant 13,000, with 4.10's that is more like it.

This thread has all of the answers to your questions, and the reasoning, in detail. TL/DR version: GM didn't pursue the J2807 towing test for the Suburban 3500 because its primary use was intended to be armoring. Yet it has the same frame as the previous two generations of Suburban 2500's with the larger brakes, torsion bars, leaf springs and rear axle tubes from the 3500 SRW pickups. It has the 6.0L L96 engine. So we estimate that from an engineering perspective, 12-14K lbs of safe towing capacity is reasonable for this platform, but since it has a Class IV hitch, 10K is the current engineering limit.

 

[Geotrash]

Curiosity had me searching for information on this. I found this quote. To me it sounds like they just put no priority on Tow Capacity but were focused on Payload capacity, 4400 pound payload. You could park most cars inside and drive off. HA. The article gives the history. Based on the HD Frame, Brakes, Cooling, axles, tires etc. I would be very comfortable towing up to 10,000 with that vehicle regardless of the screwy rating from GM, just don't add 4,000 pounds of armor and then try to tow.


"That said, GM also offered a heavy-duty version of the Suburban, marketed as the Suburban 3500HD, starting with the 2016 model year.

Given the Suburban’s pickup roots, one would expect the Suburban HD model to offer the same powertrain and extra towing capacity of its Silverado HD counterpart, but this is only somewhat the case. The eleventh-generation Suburban HD began sales for the 2016 model year and was offered through 2020. It came with a 6.0-liter gas V8 engine making 360 horsepower and 380 lb-ft of torque; the same gas engine offered in GM’s line of heavy-duty trucks. No diesel engine was offered. While you’d expect it to offer the same towing capacity as GM’s full-size heavy-duty trucks, this isn’t the case. Rather, the emphasis is placed on increasing the vehicle’s GVWR and payload capacity. This is achieved through things like an upgraded frame, bigger brakes, heavier-duty cooling systems, and 8-lug wheels. In the Suburban 3500HD, this rolls up to a GVWR of 11,000lbs and payload capacity of a 4,405lbs; almost three times that of a regular 2016 ‘Burban. Towing capacity is greatly reduced though, down from 8,000lbs to 3,000lbs. The idea here is that the vehicle comes from the factory ready for upfitting by third parties. Many are armored and bulletproofed for use in tactical settings, though there are certainly other applications for a heavy-duty Chevrolet Suburban as well.

Unfortunately, the 2016-2020 Suburban HD was only offered to fleet customers. While it couldn’t be bought new by a private citizen, it is possible to find a 2016-2020 Suburban HD on the used market, though they’re tough to come by, and generally carry a high pricetag. As I’m writing this, there are just three Suburban HDs listed for sale on Autotrader, with the cheapest being a 2016 model with just under 93,000 miles on the clock and an asking price of $44,685. That’s not cheap, but as GM has stated that it doesn’t plan to offer the all-new 2021 Suburban in an HD guise, expect these unique Suburbans to hold their values quite well going forward."

Looks like you posted at the same time I was writing to answer your questions Glad you found some good information out there.

 

[Geotrash]

Picked up the camper today and stopped by the CAT scales. Got a reading with just the Suburban with a full tank of gas + me with my father-in-law on board, plus some tools in the cargo area. Then got a reading with the camper hooked up. I messed up though and forgot to put it in neutral without the camper attached, so my steer axle is probably 150 lbs high in the first image. I had it in neutral with the camper attached in the 2nd image though, so that should be accurate. Note that I did NOT weigh it without the WDH bars engaged. Clearly they're not doing much right now, which I expected given the increased hitch height of the 3500HD. Doesn't matter though - I'm not even close to either GAWR, which is 4900 lb front, and 6200 lb rear. Doing the math, the trailer is coming in at the exact same weight as the truck itself - 7340 lbs. Subtracting the trailer weight from the trailer axle weight, I calculate 960 lbs. on the tongue, which is about right with all holding tanks empty.

To all of this, we will add about 500 lbs of kids and dog this Thursday to go camping.

 

[Bigburb3500]

Picked up the camper today and stopped by the CAT scales. Got a reading with just the Suburban with a full tank of gas + me with my father-in-law on board, plus some tools in the cargo area. Then got a reading with the camper hooked up. I messed up though and forgot to put it in neutral without the camper attached, so my steer axle is probably 150 lbs high in the first image. I had it in neutral with the camper attached in the 2nd image though, so that should be accurate. Note that I did NOT weigh it without the WDH bars engaged. Clearly they're not doing much right now, which I expected given the increased hitch height of the 3500HD. Doesn't matter though - I'm not even close to either GAWR, which is 4900 lb front, and 6200 lb rear. Doing the math, the trailer is coming in at the exact same weight as the truck itself - 7340 lbs. Subtracting the trailer weight from the trailer axle weight, I calculate 960 lbs. on the tongue, which is about right with all holding tanks empty.

View attachment 436284
View attachment 436285

To all of this, we will add about 500 lbs of kids and dog this Thursday to go camping.

This is great info Geo! Dang, these trucks are heavy.
Not that I want you to be in the same scenario but we had to do a panic stop the other day (no trailer) and for the size, it comes down to a stop FAST. Nose dive is very minimal and you never feel like the truck is on edge. Very planted. +1 for brakes on this thing.

I was re-reading one of your posts and realized you asked how many miles we have on our truck. I think we are at 73k or so. Have a few small things I will be doing over the next couple months, will be doing an oil change when we come back from SC next week. Will top off/check fluids as I am coming to a conclusion the dealer did not check these… and will be order the trans dipstick mod + Rancho xl9000 shocks. I have been going round-and-round on shocks and with the warranty they offer. They seem to be hard to argue with since they are able to be adjusted soft/firm + price point. Full set from Rock Auto is $350 or something. If someone has a VALID point to make as to why NOT to buy them I’m all ears but this is a Burb3500 thread NOT a shock thread. I have been reading up on these vs Bilstein and both camps have extremist opinions.

 

[Geotrash]

This is great info Geo! Dang, these trucks are heavy.
Not that I want you to be in the same scenario but we had to do a panic stop the other day (no trailer) and for the size, it comes down to a stop FAST. Nose dive is very minimal and you never feel like the truck is on edge. Very planted. +1 for brakes on this thing.

I was re-reading one of your posts and realized you asked how many miles we have on our truck. I think we are at 73k or so. Have a few small things I will be doing over the next couple months, will be doing an oil change when we come back from SC next week. Will top off/check fluids as I am coming to a conclusion the dealer did not check these… and will be order the trans dipstick mod + Rancho xl9000 shocks. I have been going round-and-round on shocks and with the warranty they offer. They seem to be hard to argue with since they are able to be adjusted soft/firm + price point. Full set from Rock Auto is $350 or something. If someone has a VALID point to make as to why NOT to buy them I’m all ears but this is a Burb3500 thread NOT a shock thread. I have been reading up on these vs Bilstein and both camps have extremist opinions.

Yeah the brakes are NO JOKE on these. Very confidence-inspiring when towing, too.

I’m looking forward to reading about your shock upgrade! Can’t go wrong either way as far as I can tell. And 73K is a good time to replace the factory shocks on any HD rig.

 

[gtrslngrchris]

I have been going round-and-round on shocks and with the warranty they offer. They seem to be hard to argue with since they are able to be adjusted soft/firm + price point. Full set from Rock Auto is $350 or something. If someone has a VALID point to make as to why NOT to buy them I’m all ears but this is a Burb3500 thread NOT a shock thread. I have been reading up on these vs Bilstein and both camps have extremist opinions.

I have had 3 sets of Rancho 9000s on the front of my 2003 2500HD and they stopped giving me replacements. FWIW they rode better than anything ever has on my truck (especially while lowered) but they didn't last for me. I ended up with Sway-A-Way 2.5" shocks up front and they have been great for several years now.

I've got Bilstein 5100s on the rear of the truck and those have been great for years as well and I've run Bilsteins on my Corvette and other cars in the past but they have never once been my favorite experience just a very solid option and usually well priced for their performance.

 

[Bigburb3500]

Yeah the brakes are NO JOKE on these. Very confidence-inspiring when towing, too.

I’m looking forward to reading about your shock upgrade! Can’t go wrong either way as far as I can tell. And 73K is a good time to replace the factory shocks on any HD rig.

I know this truck was not designed for normal consumer purchasing but I think they missed an opportunity. It’s like a new Excursion without the diesel option.

I will keep you posted. I hopefully will order them in the next few weeks and will install in Oct. Will update you! I agree, the 70k mark is a good time.

 

[Bigburb3500]

I have had 3 sets of Rancho 9000s on the front of my 2003 2500HD and they stopped giving me replacements. FWIW they rode better than anything ever has on my truck (especially while lowered) but they didn't last for me. I ended up with Sway-A-Way 2.5" shocks up front and they have been great for several years now.

I've got Bilstein 5100s on the rear of the truck and those have been great for years as well and I've run Bilsteins on my Corvette and other cars in the past but they have never once been my favorite experience just a very solid option and usually well priced for their performance.

Thank you for the input! How many miles did you put on each set of Rancho shocks? For a full set of 4 it is hard to beat $350-ish.
I just looked up Sway-A-Way and they look great but I am not ready to bite off $2000 for a set of shocks… maybe in the future after I got thru 3 sets of Ranchos lol! I did confirm that front shocks for the 3500 Burb can be lined up with a 2010 Silverado 3500. Have not gotten confirmation for rear yet.

 

[Geotrash]

I know this truck was not designed for normal consumer purchasing but I think they missed an opportunity. It’s like a new Excursion without the diesel option.

I completely agree. There will always be a market for a heavy duty SUV option in the US. I'm sure that in the boardrooms when the auto manufacturers were planning their future fleets 10 years ago, it felt safer to invest any available capital into EVs and improving SUV fuel efficiency, given the looming CAFE mandates and the direction it seemed the industry was going. I would've been the little voice in the back (okay, I'm not a small man and I don't have a small voice, but whatever) saying y'all are betting against the American dad who likes beefy trucks and has a brood of offspring he wants to take on adventures, and that's never a good bet.

On the topic of shocks, I did find a little tidbit that's interesting: Apparently the OEM for the factory shocks on the HD pickups (Z71 excluded but presumably inclusive of our 3500 Suburbans) is Tenneco. Tenneco also makes Rancho and Monroe.

 

[Bigburb3500]

I completely agree. There will always be a market for a heavy duty SUV option in the US. I'm sure that in the boardrooms when the auto manufacturers were planning their future fleets 10 years ago, it felt safer to invest any available capital into EVs and improving SUV fuel efficiency, given the looming CAFE mandates and the direction it seemed the industry was going. I would've been the little voice in the back (okay, I'm not a small man and I don't have a small voice, but whatever) saying y'all are betting against the American dad who likes beefy trucks and has a brood of offspring he wants to take on adventures, and that's never a good bet.

On the topic of shocks, I did find a little tidbit that's interesting: Apparently the OEM for the factory shocks on the HD pickups (Z71 excluded but presumably inclusive of our 3500 Suburbans) is Tenneco. Tenneco also makes Rancho and Monroe.

Interesting… supports why new HD models come with “Ranchos” from the factory these days! When I pull them I will let you know if they have branding on them. I cannot visually see any when walking by.

I agree with you, just look at pickups in general. Platinum F:150s and High Country Chevys and Denali GMC are proof people buy expensive trucks as just daily drivers. I am still shocked full sized trucks have not had true hybrid systems fitted to them as they seem perfect for the addition, but in the end HD SUVs will always have a place in market. Flip side is, I think the market who needs high tow capacity with interior space is smaller than just the high tow capacity group who then buy HD diesel trucks. Also, 10k towing (ex Ford Expedition Max) is pretty stout, not saying its built tow that much regularly.

 

[gtrslngrchris]

Thank you for the input! How many miles did you put on each set of Rancho shocks? For a full set of 4 it is hard to beat $350-ish.
I just looked up Sway-A-Way and they look great but I am not ready to bite off $2000 for a set of shocks…

Less than 15k miles each set and this was when the truck was just handling daily driver duties not towing or anything strenuous aside from Oklahoma's road quality. I currently have Sway-A-Ways in the front because I got so fed up with replacing blown front shocks that I wanted to go heavier duty. I've got reservoir Bilstein 5100s in the rear and I don't think I would see any improvement with a different/more expensive rear shock at least not without having a lot heavier duty work for it.

Like I said, the Ranchos rode nicer than anything else on my truck and the adjustment was nice but they just didn't last and the only other vehicle I've personally had experience with that had them ended up with similar issues (1500 NNBS). I would never have spent so much on front shocks that weren't secretly coilovers if I hadn't had such poor luck.

 

[Bigburb3500]

Less than 15k miles each set and this was when the truck was just handling daily driver duties not towing or anything strenuous aside from Oklahoma's road quality. I currently have Sway-A-Ways in the front because I got so fed up with replacing blown front shocks that I wanted to go heavier duty. I've got reservoir Bilstein 5100s in the rear and I don't think I would see any improvement with a different/more expensive rear shock at least not without having a lot heavier duty work for it.

Like I said, the Ranchos rode nicer than anything else on my truck and the adjustment was nice but they just didn't last and the only other vehicle I've personally had experience with that had them ended up with similar issues (1500 NNBS). I would never have spent so much on front shocks that weren't secretly coilovers if I hadn't had such poor luck.

Thank you for the input! Given the budget I have been allotted and the rumblings of complaints from the back seats, I will still go ahead and buy these shocks. HOPEFULLY, I will have an amazing 50-80k mile experience with them and then I can upgrade to a set of reservoir 2.5” kings with full adjustability too… one can dream, right?

 

[Geotrash]

I am still shocked full sized trucks have not had true hybrid systems fitted to them as they seem perfect for the addition, but in the end HD SUVs will always have a place in market. Flip side is, I think the market who needs high tow capacity with interior space is smaller than just the high tow capacity group who then buy HD diesel trucks. Also, 10k towing (ex Ford Expedition Max) is pretty stout, not saying its built tow that much regularly.

I agree with you it's odd that a true hybrid system hasn't yet been offered. The only hypothesis I have is that GM's last hybrid experiment on these trucks didn't sell well - either because it was only a mild hybrid system that seemed barely worth the added complexity and cost, or because consumers didn't trust GM's ability to execute a reliable hybrid system. If Toyota built it, I bet it would sell better.

And I also agree that the market is mostly being met by HD pickups. Which forces other compromises if you have kids. We have 2 other couples we camp with regularly who have kids and dogs. Both of them have crew cab pickups they tow their camper with, and they drive another vehicle along for the kids and dogs. Both of them have now seen the Suburban 3500 and said "I wish I'd known they made that".

 

[BacDoc]

For new truck hybrid definitely has some advantages but looking at Toyota it definitely isn’t fuel economy or reliability in their bigger trucks/SUV.

Think the big problem with the hybrid is resale. If I was looking for used HD SUV with over 100k miles I would definitely be cautious about a hybrid no matter who made it. With gas engines you have a good idea of worst case scenario costs and most OEM or aftermarket parts are readily available.
Hybrid adds complexity with battery and other components not just for cost but availability and who can do the work. Hybrid technology is not conducive to DIY yet.

 

[Geotrash]

For new truck hybrid definitely has some advantages but looking at Toyota it definitely isn’t fuel economy or reliability in their bigger trucks/SUV.

Think the big problem with the hybrid is resale. If I was looking for used HD SUV with over 100k miles I would definitely be cautious about a hybrid no matter who made it. With gas engines you have a good idea of worst case scenario costs and most OEM or aftermarket parts are readily available.
Hybrid adds complexity with battery and other components not just for cost but availability and who can do the work. Hybrid technology is not conducive to DIY yet.

100% agree with you. And unfortunately for most folks, they don't know this reality until years later, with the benefit of time and hindsight. Which, I believe, is the main reason why hybrids and battery-electric vehicle sales are now dropping. The jig is up.

Maybe another way to think of the car market is that there are buyers who have a short-term view, and want the latest and greatest design and creature comforts. And then there are buyers with a long term view, who prize long term durability more. At 53, I'm firmly in the latter camp and I'll pay more for a vehicle that will stand the test of time. And I'm not alone. Car manufacturers don't seem to see this market distinction though - perhaps partly because it requires a reputation that's built over a period of years, and partly because constantly evolving federal mandates make it devilishly hard to accomplish.

It's also what makes GM's durability troubles (that began with AFM) so troubling to me. They built a reputation for bulletproof durability with the GMT800 platform and prior, and are squandering it with the latest two generations of these rigs.

 

[Bigburb3500]

CAFE regulations really hindered the reliability aspect and on big vehicles did not increase fuel economy very much.

I will argue for and against the hybrid piece. Toyota and their Sequoia/Tundra hybrid is an example of hybrid for power sake. I would guess with some tuning it could have done both, power or economy. The F:150 seems to do both with power + improved mpgs? I think the plug-in and full ev will never be diy friendly but a normal hybrid will be great. Look at older Toyota models, they run 200k+ with no major issues. Not designed for HD use by any means but they are long lasting.

I fussed at several ppl to not derail this thread and look at me breaking my own rules… guess that’s the benefit of being the OP! LOL

 

[Geotrash]

Drove the 3500 down to Mill Spring, NC for the Earl Scruggs Music Festival, about 800 miles round trip, hauling the camper. Such a pleasure to tow with this thing. My wife commented on the way home about how safe she feels in it because she knows it's so solid. Can't put a price on that.

We lucked out and got headwinds both ways. Gas mileage averaged right at 8 mpg - sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on speed and terrain. But we did have a minor issue pop up that went away just as quickly. On the way down about 100 miles into the trip, the fuel gauge suddenly dropped to zero. No low fuel warning light or chimes. We stopped at a rest area and I looked everything over to make sure we weren't in fact dumping fuel, shut it off and started it back up, but the gauge remained on E and the miles remaining to empty screen was reading "--". But the average fuel economy screen still worked so I calculated our next fuel stop accordingly and we made it just fine. After fill-up the gauge was working again and continued to work for the rest of the trip. My guess is after sitting so long under prior ownership and then sitting in our garage for several weeks, the fuel sender was sending out enough odd information that the computer shut it off. But who knows - I'm just glad it's working again.

Other than that, everything was great. It was 96ºF outside with full sun on the way down, and transmission temp hovered around 190ºF, peaking at 198 after a long-ish climb. On the way home it was in the upper 70's outside and the transmission hovered around 180ºF. The coolant temp gauge never left the 210 peg.

 

[Bigburb3500]

Drove the 3500 down to Mill Spring, NC for the Earl Scruggs Music Festival, about 800 miles round trip, hauling the camper. Such a pleasure to tow with this thing. My wife commented on the way home about how safe she feels in it because she knows it's so solid. Can't put a price on that.

We lucked out and got headwinds both ways. Gas mileage averaged right at 8 mpg - sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on speed and terrain. But we did have a minor issue pop up that went away just as quickly. On the way down about 100 miles into the trip, the fuel gauge suddenly dropped to zero. No low fuel warning light or chimes. We stopped at a rest area and I looked everything over to make sure we weren't in fact dumping fuel, shut it off and started it back up, but the gauge remained on E and the miles remaining to empty screen was reading "--". But the average fuel economy screen still worked so I calculated our next fuel stop accordingly and we made it just fine. After fill-up the gauge was working again and continued to work for the rest of the trip. My guess is after sitting so long under prior ownership and then sitting in our garage for several weeks, the fuel sender was sending out enough odd information that the computer shut it off. But who knows - I'm just glad it's working again.

Other than that, everything was great. It was 96ºF outside with full sun on the way down, and transmission temp hovered around 190ºF, peaking at 198 after a long-ish climb. On the way home it was in the upper 70's outside and the transmission hovered around 180ºF. The coolant temp gauge never left the 210 peg.

View attachment 436906

Thanks for the tow review! Glad to know it can tow more than 3k lbs lol.

I cannot believe you found a truck with such low mileage. Absolutely insane, but the issue sounds like most cars that sit for long periods of time.