Catch Can disappointment pics inside

[mattbta]

I'm so calling it this from now on LOL

.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Do it. James let us know he wouldn't be around for a while, and I can't speak to his breathers.

I can, however, tell you that I take 2oz out of mine every interval (5000). In the course of just my ownership of this truck, that amounts to a soda can full of oil that's not in my intake.

Its not so much me doubting the need to get the vapors out of the intake, I trust that. It's just deciding what to do with them... many run a catch can bc thats the environmentally friendly way buts that's at a cost and I suspect the catch cans are still letting a lot of vapors by... vents would be the best way to keep vapors out and would also be cheaper

 

[SnowDrifter]

Its not so much me doubting the need to get the vapors out of the intake, I trust that. It's just deciding what to do with them... many run a catch can bc thats the environmentally friendly way buts that's at a cost and I suspect the catch cans are still letting a lot of vapors by... vents would be the best way to keep vapors out and would also be cheaper

Consider what's in the vapors and why the interest in a catch can

Some co2, co, fuel vapor is not an issue. That gets burned and pushed through the cat.

The concern here, is primarily oil or any sort of soot which deposits itself on the intake. Deposits are a valid concern if you intend to keep a vehicle for a long time. Much easier to stop them from forming than it is to remove them once they're there.

The vapors/gasses arent the concern. It's the other contaminants they carry with

 

[HiHoeSilver]

Consider what's in the vapors and why the interest in a catch can

Some co2, co, fuel vapor is not an issue. That gets burned and pushed through the cat.

The concern here, is primarily oil or any sort of soot which deposits itself on the intake. Deposits are a valid concern if you intend to keep a vehicle for a long time. Much easier to stop them from forming than it is to remove them once they're there.

The vapors/gasses arent the concern. It's the other contaminants they carry with

True, but the oil is technically in vapor form in the PCV hose. The catch can and (especially) its filter material gives the oil a place to condense back into liquid form and stay there.

 

[SnowDrifter]

True, but the oil is technically in vapor form in the PCV hose. The catch can and (especially) its filter material gives the oil a place to condense back into liquid form and stay there.

Lets clarify: When you say vapor, are you referring to a gaseous form of oil, or a suspension of oil in air?

I'm under the impression that the catch can is designed to capture suspended oil droplets in air as opposed to acting as a distilling column. That's what allows devices such as a centrifugal separator to work. https://www.alfdex.com/crankcase-ventilation/oil-mist-separator/

I need to run and won't get a chance to respond until late today or sometime tomorrow, but I'd like to continue this discussion. I think we could get some good info out of it

 

[HiHoeSilver]

Lets clarify: When you say vapor, are you referring to a gaseous form of oil, or a suspension of oil in air?

I'm under the impression that the catch can is designed to capture suspended oil droplets in air as opposed to acting as a distilling column. That's what allows devices such as a centrifugal separator to work. https://www.alfdex.com/crankcase-ventilation/oil-mist-separator/

I need to run and won't get a chance to respond until late today or sometime tomorrow, but I'd like to continue this discussion. I think we could get some good info out of it

Good point. It is liquid suspension in air. Motor oil doesn't boil until close to 300 F or more, so it really is just liquid oil that is getting "blown by" and caught in the media, not really condensing as I stated earlier.

 

[dubyagee01]

I have a “catch can” from a tier 4 industrial Kubota diesel. Its designed to return the oil to the pan. I was going to use it on an old Mercedes diesel. I am now wondering if it can be used on a gas engine.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Consider what's in the vapors and why the interest in a catch can

Some co2, co, fuel vapor is not an issue. That gets burned and pushed through the cat.

The concern here, is primarily oil or any sort of soot which deposits itself on the intake. Deposits are a valid concern if you intend to keep a vehicle for a long time. Much easier to stop them from forming than it is to remove them once they're there.

The vapors/gasses arent the concern. It's the other contaminants they carry with

The point I'm making is, with a catch-can you're paying a lot of money to still feed that crap to your intake. Has there ever been truly scientific testing done to see what is making it past the catch-can? You can't just put another catch-can there to see what made it past the first because you would only be capturing the stuff that made it past the first and was captured in the 2nd. What if those cans were only 10% effective? IE, I don't care about what makes it into the can, I care about what makes it past the can.

Vents completely resolve that question as it vents that crap to the atmosphere just like many older engines. But doing that opens up another can of worms, the environmental impact... of which I don't care to debate. I was just curious of he had a chance to look into the venting option anymore...

 

[bottomline2000]

The point I'm making is, with a catch-can you're paying a lot of money to still feed that crap to your intake. Has there ever been truly scientific testing done to see what is making it past the catch-can? You can't just put another catch-can there to see what made it past the first because you would only be capturing the stuff that made it past the first and was captured in the 2nd. What if those cans were only 10% effective? IE, I don't care about what makes it into the can, I care about what makes it past the can.

Vents completely resolve that question as it vents that crap to the atmosphere just like many older engines. But doing that opens up another can of worms, the environmental impact... of which I don't care to debate. I was just curious of he had a chance to look into the venting option anymore...

Adding a 2nd can would be a good test to see what is being missed. I have pulled my hose from my catchcan to the intake and it was dry. That's a good indication that nothing significant is blowing through. My original 5.3 intake literally had pools of oil in it and was completely caked up. I don't care about the vapor being recirculated but I would not want my PVC System vented. You will probably get carbon monoxide build up under the hood and could have deadly consequences.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk

 

[swathdiver]

Bumping this to find out if you ever installed your breathers...

Not yet. I planned to do them last month but we had to move and it may be some time before I get around to it. The motor rarely sees full throttle or even rpms above 3000. I say this because it does not burn oil. 6 clean quarts in and 5k later, 6 dirty quarts out.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Adding a 2nd can would be a good test to see what is being missed. I have pulled my hose from my catchcan to the intake and it was dry. That's a good indication that nothing significant is blowing through. My original 5.3 intake literally had pools of oil in it and was completely caked up. I don't care about the vapor being recirculated but I would not want my PVC System vented. You will probably get carbon monoxide build up under the hood and could have deadly consequences.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk

Adding a 2nd can is actually a terrible way to see what is getting by the 1st. Most catch cans work by a similar principle, even if the execution is slightly varied. If the process by which the byproducts are removed from the first can doesn't fulfill the job entirely then logic says a 2nd can may catch a marginal amount more, but not a significant amount.

IE, Lets say, for the sake of argument, the first catch-can is only removing the most easily condensed crap, the first 10%. The 2nd catch-can may remove another 6%, letting 84% go on through. The fact that the hose is dry isn't necessarily a good indication that nothing else is getting through. It's just an indication that nothing is condensing on the hose. But we're already removed the easiest stuff, so not much is going to get on the hose anyways...

To know for sure, why hasn't anybody taken samples and actually analyzed them? That's the only way to know for sure.

That being said, in regards to venting, I doubt there is much CO in the crank-case vapors. And the venting, per swathdiver's earlier suggestion, would be just like older vehicles and large truck engines. There is a drop tube extending down below the engine so the vapors are easily vented out under the vehicle. I doubt there would be anything accumulating.

 

[bottomline2000]

Adding a 2nd can is actually a terrible way to see what is getting by the 1st. Most catch cans work by a similar principle, even if the execution is slightly varied. If the process by which the byproducts are removed from the first can doesn't fulfill the job entirely then logic says a 2nd can may catch a marginal amount more, but not a significant amount.

IE, Lets say, for the sake of argument, the first catch-can is only removing the most easily condensed crap, the first 10%. The 2nd catch-can may remove another 6%, letting 84% go on through. The fact that the hose is dry isn't necessarily a good indication that nothing else is getting through. It's just an indication that nothing is condensing on the hose. But we're already removed the easiest stuff, so not much is going to get on the hose anyways...

To know for sure, why hasn't anybody taken samples and actually analyzed them? That's the only way to know for sure.

That being said, in regards to venting, I doubt there is much CO in the crank-case vapors. And the venting, per swathdiver's earlier suggestion, would be just like older vehicles and large truck engines. There is a drop tube extending down below the engine so the vapors are easily vented out under the vehicle. I doubt there would be anything accumulating.

Well the logic would be if any is getting into the 2nd can the first is letting at least some fluid by. Most of us that have them catch a lot of oil so they do work. . Not trying to put a science project together but to say it's a terrible idea would mean adding the 1st is a terrible idea to see it the pcv system is letting oil into the intake. Have u seen the inside of an intake with no catchcan..they are literally coated evertpywhere with oil. The hose to the intske is not exempt. Our trucks don't have a drop tube and I'm not sure how exhaust fumes from the dirty side of the engine would not have any CO in it since it's literally blow by from the actual combustion of fuel. By all means you are welcome to experiment but my better judgement tells me otherwise. .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk

 

[bottomline2000]

Adding a 2nd can is actually a terrible way to see what is getting by the 1st. Most catch cans work by a similar principle, even if the execution is slightly varied. If the process by which the byproducts are removed from the first can doesn't fulfill the job entirely then logic says a 2nd can may catch a marginal amount more, but not a significant amount.

IE, Lets say, for the sake of argument, the first catch-can is only removing the most easily condensed crap, the first 10%. The 2nd catch-can may remove another 6%, letting 84% go on through. The fact that the hose is dry isn't necessarily a good indication that nothing else is getting through. It's just an indication that nothing is condensing on the hose. But we're already removed the easiest stuff, so not much is going to get on the hose anyways...

To know for sure, why hasn't anybody taken samples and actually analyzed them? That's the only way to know for sure.

That being said, in regards to venting, I doubt there is much CO in the crank-case vapors. And the venting, per swathdiver's earlier suggestion, would be just like older vehicles and large truck engines. There is a drop tube extending down below the engine so the vapors are easily vented out under the vehicle. I doubt there would be anything accumulating.

Well the logic would be if any is getting into the 2nd can the first is letting at least some fluid by. Most of us that have them catch a lot of oil so they do work. . Not trying to put a science project together but to say it's a terrible idea would mean adding the 1st is a terrible idea to see it the pcv system is letting oil into the intake. Have u seen the inside of an intake with no catchcan..they are literally coated evertpywhere with oil. The hose to the intske is not exempt. Our trucks don't have a drop tube and I'm not sure how exhaust fumes from the dirty side of the engine would not have any CO in it since it's literally blow by from the actual combustion of fuel. By all means you are welcome to experiment but my better judgement tells me otherwise. .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk

 

[CountryBoy19]

Well the logic would be if any is getting into the 2nd can the first is letting at least some fluid by. Most of us that have them catch a lot of oil so they do work. . Not trying to put a science project together but to say it's a terrible idea would mean adding the 1st is a terrible idea to see it the pcv system is letting oil into the intake. Have u seen the inside of an intake with no catchcan..they are literally coated evertpywhere with oil. The hose to the intske is not exempt. Our trucks don't have a drop tube and I'm not sure how exhaust fumes from the dirty side of the engine would not have any CO in it since it's literally blow by from the actual combustion of fuel. By all means you are welcome to experiment but my better judgement tells me otherwise. .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk

Yes, sometimes you can certainly tell that something is getting past the first can, but having a 2nd can doesn't quantify, in any way, how much is getting past the cans. And having none show up in the 2nd can is not definitive proof that nothing is getting past the first. Do you see what I'm saying?

I'm not saying they don't work, I'm just questioning the effectiveness. AFAIK nobody has actually done a reliable test to know that nothing is getting past their catch-can. Venting is the only way to ensure nothing is getting to the intake.

In regards to CO: blow-by at idle and low-load conditions is minimal, and minimal CO is produced. The times when blow-by is at it's peak (heavy load) is also when there is likely to be plenty of air circulation to keep any CO concerns at bay. You're acting like the PCV system is a 3rd exhaust manifold pumping pure exhaust back into the intake. Look at the size of the hose and apply some logic. The actual volume of vapors is minimal.

 

[ivin74]

Unless I'm missing something, the crankcase is not metered by any electronics so open or closed (if isolated from the intake air) is not going to set off any codes.

@swathdiver
I disagree with your statement, I left the catch can drain valve open to test your theory and sure thing the check engine light can on.

 

[iamdub]

@swathdiver
I disagree with your statement, I left the catch can drain valve open to test your theory and sure thing the check engine light can on.

That's because the vacuum from the intake manifold sucks through the catch can. You opening that valve created a vacuum leak. It's not that the air coming out of the crankcase was or wasn't detected (because the crankcase has no sensors), it was the vacuum coming from the manifold had nothing to suck on, and the manifold does have a sensor- the MAP. You could have the PCV vent to a hose pointed at the ground if you wanted to be messy. You'd have to plug the vacuum port on the intake manifold, though.

But, if you did have the PCV simply vent to atmosphere with no vacuum assist to pull the vapors out, they'd build up in the crank case and push oil up past the rings into the combustion chambers. Could possibly blow out seals if you do a lot of high-RPM driving. LS engines move a lot of air through them. They have an air inlet and an air outlet just for the crankcase alone.