Battery Tender tripping Viper Alarm

[MarkD51]

This has been an ongoing issue that could never seem to be cured.

Happened with both my older Clifford-Avital Concept 20 Alarm, as well as a brand new Viper 5701 2-way Alarm/Remote Start which is about 2-1/2 years old. (All components and wiring of the Clifford Alarm were totally removed prior to the new Viper Alarm installation)

I've tried 3 Deltran Battery Tenders, and also a new Pulsetech maintainer which I currently use. No joy with none of them.

The Alarm will trip 35-45 seconds after arming usually, and didn't seem to matter none how I connect the Battery Tender, either ground to - battery terminal, or to a chassis ground. (engine block)

Thus, the only way I can maintain a battery without tripping the alarm, is placing the alarm in valet mode. (Which of course renders the alarm as useless)

Neither Deltran, or Viper had any answers. This sort of sucks that it seems nobody else ever had such issues, that this is some unusual occurrence-issue only I have experienced?

I suspect something perhaps like AC Ripple, or some inherit design with the Alarm that it is being "fooled" that variance of voltages in the system are being seen as a theft?
Mark

 

[SunlitComet]

perhaps the alarms read a trigger as a voltage change like a door light operating or are effecting a shock/perimeter sensor in the way the sensor functions.

 

[MarkD51]

perhaps the alarms read a trigger as a voltage change like a door light operating or are effecting a shock/perimeter sensor in the way the sensor functions.

Hello Sunlit C,
Well, you did hit the nail on the head, sorry this was omitted from my first post, because it appears that it is indeed the shock-knock sensor.

When the alarm is triggered on these new alarms, it does give a clue as to what area triggered the alarm, and according to the number of flashes seen at the windshield valet switch and light, it is showing it's the knock sensor.

This was known not long after installation, it was initially set quite sensitive, and was also being tripped due to low flying airplanes at times. De-sensitizing it though had no effect on the battery maintainer issue though.

In fact after I wrote my first post here, I again decided to take a trip to the business that installed the alarm.

The owner said that one possible option to rectify this issue would be to install a small easily accessible toggle switch between the brain box, and this sensor, thus disabling it when I use the Battery Maintainer. Yes, I'd lose this feature during such, but at least I would not then be in Valet Mode, and the Doors-Hood-Rear Hatch would remain armed.

In the process, I might also have them install a Digital "shaker", as I'm having new custom wheels-tires mounted soon. Cost for the shaker will be $80 installed, and he'll install this toggle switch for free.
Would be sweet if this simple switch will work.
Mark

 

[SunlitComet]

digital shaker? you mean a tilt sensor. strange things happen. i have a glass breakage sensor that gets tripped by a nissan trucks fuel pump running if it is parked right next to mine because of the sound frequency it admits.

 

[MarkD51]

digital shaker? you mean a tilt sensor. strange things happen. i have a glass breakage sensor that gets tripped by a nissan trucks fuel pump running if it is parked right next to mine because of the sound frequency it admits.

Yes SLC, I meant Tilt Sensor, sorry. You were maybe thinking I had a new way of making Martinis while on the road?

A couple of thoughts occurred, that the toggle switch "might not" solve the issue, so I don't wish to place this switch in an obvious in front of my face place, like on the dash, just in case it proves ineffective.

Two, the other thought, I might solve the issue, then putting in the Tilt Sensor, I'll have that gizmo add on tripping the Alarm? I suppose anything's possible?

This Viper Alarm installation already does have one small toggle switch at the left side dash fuse-box. This is to defeat the remote start to further disable it, if by chance the vehicle is in some shop being worked on, and the Hood Switch doesn't work. (or myself working on it of course)

There is one other add on I could have, but don't need that right now, GPS, where via Cell Phone-Ipod, I can monitor the truck's status, the alarm, all functions, and know where it's at from anywhere in the world.

Pretty neat, but about a $300 add on, plus a yearly fee through Viper I understand.
Mark

 

[SunlitComet]

do you not drive it that much at all that it needs a battery maintainer all the time? why not just program the remote starter to auto start for a fixed time to recharge it using the alternator when the battery reaches a certain voltage or cabin temperature threshold. mine has that ability. i use a fully optioned avantguard 5.1. or is it parked in an enclosed space?

 

[MarkD51]

do you not drive it that much at all that it needs a battery maintainer all the time? why not just program the remote starter to auto start for a fixed time to recharge it using the alternator when the battery reaches a certain voltage or cabin temperature threshold. mine has that ability. i use a fully optioned avantguard 5.1. or is it parked in an enclosed space?

Yes SLC, it's not a daily driver currently. And it's surprising just how fast a battery goes dead in this vehicle. Even an Optima Yellow Top can only take so much continual deep discharge and it's then caput. These alarms must have a fairly high current draw.

Yes, I believe I could do the same thing with mine, program the remote start but the truck drinks enough dead dinos as it is.

 

[SunlitComet]

mine with options draws less then 60 milliamps. at idle hot the engine should consume no more then .68 gallons an hour.

 

[MarkD51]

mine with options draws less then 60 milliamps. at idle hot the engine should consume no more then .68 gallons an hour.

Thank you again SLC for sharing your knowledge and wisdom, it's deeply appreciated.

I believe some months back, when I had the sensitivity of the Knock Sensor lessened, the owner did perform a amperage draw check, as said he noted nothing unusual on my vehicle, that amperage draw for my vehicle was typical-normal.

I forget the numbers though, getting old my friend, and the brain's gotten a bit forgetful, and fried.

I'll keep your suggestions-advice in mind as one other possible option.

One beauty of the Optima Batteries is dual terminals, so I do have the Pulsetech Charger's ring terminals connected there, and there is a good length of charger cable with a quick disconnect visible-accessible from the Grill. Thus 2 seconds, the charger is unhooked without even having to pop the hood. (Sort of like a block heater would be, simple access to plug in-unplug)

Since I have always wanted the Tilt Sensor, and wouldn't hurt to have with $2500 worth of new Wheels-Tires that will soon be on board, (hopefully soon) he said he'd install the Toggle Switch for the Knock Sensor free of charge.

They've been really great with me standing behind the products they sell, and install. About a month ago, I discovered I had a bad Driver's Door Switch, (was wondering why my darn interior lights weren't coming on!?)

I got the new switch, he installed it free, ad also gave me a brand spanking new 2-way Alarm Key Fob, saying "we've had too many problems with the older model Fob with battery doors breaking on them, so here's a new one free of charge"! There was nothing wrong with my old one, but very cool they treated me good like this.
Mark

 

[SunlitComet]

given a stock config, typical parasitic drain might be 7-15ma. a maximum of would be 30ma. in mild weather that would give 23 days roughly at a 30 ma draw. of course you likely have a different capacity battery then was used to calculate that. note if the battery gets below 32°f while discharged the damage becomes permanent.

 

[MarkD51]

given a stock config, typical parasitic drain might be 7-15ma. a maximum of would be 30ma. in mild weather that would give 23 days roughly at a 30 ma draw. of course you likely have a different capacity battery then was used to calculate that. note if the battery gets below 32°f while discharged the damage becomes permanent.

SLC, with a couple trades of facebook posts with Viper, they believe an AC Ripple from the charger is causing the alarm to trip.

They also stated the Shock-Knock Sensor is integral to the Main Control Module, so no way of removing it like it is some outboard plug in accessory.

So, figured there is only one way to find out, and I ordered a relatively small Coleman 12V, 6W, 400MaH Solar Battery Charger/Maintainer from Home Depot.

Not sure whether this will be adequate to maintain the Yellow Top Optima, but we do get plenty of sunshine here, I can mount the Panel where it will get adequate sunlight for a good number of hours a day.

I would assume what I'll need to do, is take a battery voltage reading before, and while hooked up. And then monitor-check voltage readings again perhaps a couple days later to compare?

There is supposedly a diode contained within the charger to prevent reverse discharge of the battery during no sun, or night conditions, or possibly over-charging.

It's a $40 gamble to see if this will work. I'm truly not liking the idea of having such a decent alarm, then continuing to not being able to arm it while the vehicle sits in storage covered under my carport.

 

[SunlitComet]

let me know. worse comes to worse build yourself a descent solar system on top. i am thinking along the same lines.

 

[MarkD51]

let me know. worse comes to worse build yourself a descent solar system on top. i am thinking along the same lines.

Hello SunlitComet/All

Well today I picked up the Coleman 6W Solar Charger from Home Depot, and was of course eager to get home, hook it up, and see how the Viper Alarm would react.

For now, I simply hooked the two Alligator Clips to the Top Termnals on the Optima Yellow Top Battery. I have standard type Battery Clamps on those Top Terminals with Screw Studs/Wing Nuts, and simply clamped onto them for now.

While the Coleman Solar Charger is said to be weatherproof/waterproof, I preferred to offer it some protection by hanging it slightly under my Carport Roof by about 18"-20" from the edge, and hung the Solar Charger Panel to a Main Support Beam via two lengths of Stainless Steel Wire. Should be able to withstand hurricane force winds, and will not get soaked from any rain.

With 10' of supplied cable, there was ample length that I can still cover the Tahoe with my Covercraft NOAH Cover no problemo.

With the Panel facing the west, there should be a good amount of hours where it will receive afternoon sun, and even though direct sun wasn't hitting it at the time, I was reading 17V at the Alligator Clips. Forgot to take an amperage reading though.

The Yellow Top at the Time with no charger hooked to it read 12.6V. I'll keep an eye on it, and see what it reads a few days from now.

So far, so good, it's been about 1 hour, the alarm is armed, and has not tripped!

Evidently, Viper, Deltran a long time ago, and you Sunlit were correct, some odd funky AC Ripple must've been occurring from the AC Powered Chargers-Maintaners.

Glad that issue is seeming to be now solved, and felt I got away cheap ($40) with little very little hassle involved.
Mark

 

[SunlitComet]

holy panels batman. that charger is huge.

 

[MarkD51]

holy panels batman. that charger is huge.

http://batterytender.com/products/solar.html

I believe this Coleman 5W I bought at $40 from Home Depot has a Panel 14'X18"x1".

From Battery Tender's site, you can see once you usually go much above this output they get even considerably larger yet, like Deltran's 15W for example.

This one I have will easily fit-position on basically any vehicle's dashboard (That wouldn't work in my case because of the car cover in use)

I'm certainly no "expert" in solar chargers, but gather that these smallish ones, like this one I bought might be able to a least "maintain" a full charged battery and stave off some parasitic draw in the meantime, but probably cannot be of much worth for taking a considerably discharged battery, and topping it off. Unless one wants to maybe wait a month? LOL

The gamble is, it's only $40, maybe not as high quality as what Deltran offers, and the unknown of course is how long will it last? Six months, 2-3 years? I best make sure I hold onto the receipts just in case it prematurely craps out.

PS: It's been hooked up about 3 to 3-1/2 hours at this point, and all is good!
No tripping of the Alarm. Mark

 

[SunlitComet]

according to specs and i assume it mean full sunlight on it is strong enough to handle the parasitic draw of seven stock obs hoes or burbs. i really think you will be fine now. in my world i wanted one set that would fit under my entire roof basket. part of my master plan.

 

[MarkD51]

One thing I've noticed while studying the sun's path today, is it becomes a little odd as we go into fall, and then probably into winter, how the sun doesn't make that straight of a path from due east, to due west, that it "arcs" across the sky.

Here at about 32-33 degree latitude, it looks like the sun rises in the northeast, arcs lower to the south at midday, then sets to the northwest at dusk.

Thus I notice the Solar Panel, and where I have it currently mounted is not actually getting much direct sun, but more ambient light instead.

I could probably figure a way to mount it face up on the roof of my little storage shed next to the carport, and it would for sure get more direct light throughout the day, but will also be subjected to a lot more intense heat, and can also then be subject to moisture. It could perhaps be placed within some type of Ziplock Bag, or such to further waterproof it?

With midday sun intensity here, I'm sure the panel could then double as a frying pan, and one could literally fry eggs upon it at lunchtime.

Maybe I'm "anally over-thinking" things at this point? I'll see how it goes with where it's at for now, and perhaps make position adjustments if deemed necessary?

 

[SunlitComet]

that is because the earth axis axis does not change from year to year. it has minute changes about every century. so for our life time the earth axis will not change. because of that and the fact that the season will give you the arcing effect you see. and from year to year it may change as well because the earth does not travel the exact same path around the sun every year. nothing wrong with thinking it threw. it is a hoe man's destiny to explore, imagine and create.

 

[ccapehartusarmyINF.(ret)]

okay we learned this is geography class i took last year
we have a summer solstice occurs when the tilt of a planet's semi-axis, in either the northern or the southern hemisphere, is most inclined toward the star (sun) that it orbits. Earth's maximum axial tilt toward the sun is 23° 26'. This happens twice each year, at which times the sun reaches its highest position in the sky as seen from the north or the south pole.
this happens between june 20th to the 23 in the northern hemisphere and december 20 to the 23 in the southern hemisphere
and then we have what is called an equinox
An equinox occurs when the plane of Earth's Equator passes the center of the Sun. At that instant, the tilt of Earth's axis neither inclines away from nor towards the Sun
these occur on 20 march and 22 september
so
Solstice is basically were the earths axis is tilting tword or away from the sun and the maximum axial tilt is 23.4 dagrees (this would be that day you hear about in the north pole were its light all day long in the summer and dark all day long in the winter
equinox is were the earths axis is straight up and and down

 

[SunlitComet]

uh, you just learned this last year? also no matter what orbit you take around me i always bring life to everything.