BREAKING: GM is officially recalling the L87

[2024 White Tahoe]

Mistakes DO happen in MFG... DAILY.... BUT

Competent suppliers/mfgs catch these at the source (and quickly) and contain them before they EVER leave their factory. And the line STOPS till we can assure 100% quality is going out the door..... then make CHANGES to foolproof these new processes/inspection techniques to avoid it ever happening again.

I don't buy the 3-year timeline... I made thousands of parts a day at my business and the worst thing that happened is the day shift caught the night shift reading or checking something wrong. When that happened, we STOPPED and went back thru everything that was made previously till we got back to good parts in the box. Nonconforming parts were either fixed or scrapped. We then lost money. You only go as fast as what makes conforming parts... never faster.

I'm saying GM either trusted the supplier's word/certifications that the parts were good, and they really weren't, or they never audited their processes well enough to assure they could actually produce 100% quality on a high-volume basis..... A lot of supplier's "talk" a good game, but in the heat of the battle.... "WE CAN'T STOP THE LINE !!!!"

What is the old adage, “You should inspect what you expect”.

 

[vcode]

Of course it matters....it could reduce their exposure to the problem greatly if they could pinpoint the bad parts and trace them to engines and owners. Would you rather replace 600k engines or 83472 because you know? Absolutely they can trace a crank to a specific engine if GM requires it, and that's a big IF !


Traceability S/N's and barcodes (yes, they can blow a barcode on a part with a laser in about 5 seconds) can be laser applied right on the Assy line. That same code can be scanned/logged as the engine is built. Putting it on a package doesn't cut the mustard in this case.
It should be easy enough for someone on here to show us a part/ bad parts with traceable # on them if they exist. If they knew these numbers and could track bad parts, they would be contacting individual owners and not the masses....

Even if they can link a crank to a block, unless you have 100% inspection of each and every part, it is a crap shoot as to which parts are bad. And if you have debris in the block? How do you identify that?

 

[Stbentoak]

Even if they can link a crank to a block, unless you have 100% inspection of each and every part, it is a crap shoot as to which parts are bad. And if you have debris in the block? How do you identify that?

All blocks should be 100% power washed/flushed with micron filtered high pressure Stoddard solvent after machining with particular attention to internal cavities and channel or connecting holes before going to assy. Like in an industrial dishwasher. including directed pressure at all internal cavities and holes and blown dry with filtered air. GM knows this... they just dropped the ball somewhere...

Also, you don't have to have 100 percent inspection of every component if you can prove your manufacturing processes are in control and their variance is less than the tolerance/output that is expected. That is called a six-sigma process and they are proven to contain quality over and over every day in the aircraft world without 100% inspection.

 

[BacDoc]

It’s there

Affected population 3-6%

But….

They are applying the fix to 100% of population built 2021-2024 (replace engine or move to 0W-40)

Possible explanations
1) can’t trace thus apply fix to 100% of population (safer and politically correct explanation)

#2 is a big taboo and any suggestion of this would be either labeled as misinformation or conspiracy so I’m taking a big risk here

2) 0W-40 was the correct oil for reliability on these L87s for the nominal design targets (finish, clearances)

Statistics are used to prove or disprove a point but perspective is everything!

6% is only 3% different than 3% but 6% is twice as much as 3%.

A genius friend of mine gave me some sage advice when I asked him about dealing with problems and the meaning of life.
He said:
“A ******** is better than no job, but a paying job is better than any job “

Think about this

This is life changing advice!

 

[BacDoc]

Wow! The censors can detect the word hand and job when used in conjunction

They run a tight ship here!

 

[viven44]

Yeah man when I saw the ******** I was trying to fill in the blanks. That particular variety of job hadn't crossed my mind, lmao hahahaha

 

[tom3]

Saw that there have been over 14,000 of these engines failed, so far. GM probably built 100 million small blocks and I've never heard of failures like this, and if you've wrenched on some of the you know those motors were pretty crudely built.

 

[blanchard7684]

Load and viscosity are not the only parameters changing. Improperly machined cranks and excess debris in oil passages are actually the only parameters that have changed. If GM specs 16 micro inches for their finish on crank journals and they got 63 instead, bad things are going to happen.

… and 0w40 can handle it, 0w20 can’t. Thus the spec change that is part of this recall. Thus the point made previously about taking risks with viscosity.

 

[vcode]

… and 0w40 can handle it, 0w20 can’t. Thus the spec change that is part of this recall. Thus the point made previously about taking risks with viscosity.

It's a band aide. I have no doubt in my mind that many of the engines that failed would have failed regardless of the oil being used. Engines that failed at 500 or 1000 miles would not have been magically saved by 0W40. Manufacturing defects caused the failures, not the oil.

 

[Marky Dissod]

... no doubt in my mind that many of the engines that failed, would have failed, regardless of the oil being used.
Engines that failed at 500 or 1000 miles would not have been magically saved by 0W40. Manufacturing defects caused the failures, not the oil.

Granted.
How many of these L87s will make it past 150,001, but fail before 200,001?

 

[23Seven]

So now I’m seeing articles that are talking about DFM software delete being part of the fix. Like I mentioned before running an 8 on less than 8 is a stressor on Rod’s, Bearings, and Cranks. When we put together high horsepower like 350+ back in the day the ones that lasted were always balanced. Now we are dealing with high compression and 400+ HP but we have unbalanced loads on our cranks via DFM.

You all do what you want but I will run the same oil as I did in my LT1 (0-40) and it will always be in L9 until I can hopefully get the dealer to delete DFM via software.

Maybe I could get 200k out of 0-20 and if that were true the extra protection that is valid in an LT1 with 0-40 might get me closer to 300k in an L87. I know that lame cylinder deactivation junk will rob the small block of significant miles so mine will run on all 8.

I don’t want to argue and I don’t care if you love 0-20 and DFM, by all means run your rig the way you want and I’ll run mine the way I want. I won’t criticize anyone for there choices so don’t criticize me for mine!

As for me and my house we will service The Tahoe!
CHEVY - 24:15
LOL

 

[Vladimir2306]

So now I’m seeing articles that are talking about DFM software delete being part of the fix. Like I mentioned before running an 8 on less than 8 is a stressor on Rod’s, Bearings, and Cranks. When we put together high horsepower like 350+ back in the day the ones that lasted were always balanced. Now we are dealing with high compression and 400+ HP but we have unbalanced loads on our cranks via DFM.

You all do what you want but I will run the same oil as I did in my LT1 (0-40) and it will always be in L9 until I can hopefully get the dealer to delete DFM via software.

Maybe I could get 200k out of 0-20 and if that were true the extra protection that is valid in an LT1 with 0-40 might get me closer to 300k in an L87. I know that lame cylinder deactivation junk will rob the small block of significant miles so mine will run on all 8.

I don’t want to argue and I don’t care if you love 0-20 and DFM, by all means run your rig the way you want and I’ll run mine the way I want. I won’t criticize anyone for there choices so don’t criticize me for mine!

As for me and my house we will service The Tahoe!
CHEVY - 24:15
LOL

In your logic with the fault of DFM, only one thing does not fit, the engine breaks down more often for those who drive in the city and DFM, it is less active, and for those who drive on the highway and DFM, the engine actively works longer

 

[23Seven]

In your logic with the fault of DFM, only one thing does not fit, the engine breaks down more often for those who drive in the city and DFM, it is less active, and for those who drive on the highway and DFM, the engine actively works longer

Like I said do it your way and I’ll do it mine.

 

[blanchard7684]

So now I’m seeing articles that are talking about DFM software delete being part of the fix. Like I mentioned before running an 8 on less than 8 is a stressor on Rod’s, Bearings, and Cranks. When we put together high horsepower like 350+ back in the day the ones that lasted were always balanced. Now we are dealing with high compression and 400+ HP but we have unbalanced loads on our cranks via DFM.

You all do what you want but I will run the same oil as I did in my LT1 (0-40) and it will always be in L9 until I can hopefully get the dealer to delete DFM via software.

Maybe I could get 200k out of 0-20 and if that were true the extra protection that is valid in an LT1 with 0-40 might get me closer to 300k in an L87. I know that lame cylinder deactivation junk will rob the small block of significant miles so mine will run on all 8.

I don’t want to argue and I don’t care if you love 0-20 and DFM, by all means run your rig the way you want and I’ll run mine the way I want. I won’t criticize anyone for there choices so don’t criticize me for mine!

As for me and my house we will service The Tahoe!
CHEVY - 24:15
LOL

Can you share the links to the articles?

 

[Vladimir2306]

By the way, there is another interesting thing. One of the important tasks of motor oil is to remove heat from engine parts. So, thicker oil removes heat worse than thinner oil. And our L87 engine is heat-loaded, the motor oil is hot, and the engine itself operates at a temperature of 100C. So I would not overheat it with my own hands, pouring 0-40.

 

[Marky Dissod]

By the way ... One of the important tasks of motor oil is to remove heat from engine parts.
So, thicker oil removes heat worse than thinner oil.
And our L87 engine is heat-loaded, the motor oil is hot, and the engine itself operates at a temperature of 100C.
So I would not overheat it with my own hands, pouring 0W40.

1st: No engine operates at EXACTLY any temp.
GM's DI engines operate between 95C & 105C normally, depending on many variable interdependent factors.
Under 'stress', operating temps can reach as high as 115C, depending on the stresses
(although I only once have ever let any engine exceed 110C - NEVER AGAIN!).

2nd: You wouldn't overheat it with 0W30 or 5W30 or 0W40 or 5W40 ... or even 10W50 or 15W50,
which is what GM recommends during racing for the LT1, provided you change the oil BACK to 0W40 once the racing is over.
Despite the fact that - yes - thicker motor oil transfers heat more slowly than thinner oil,
the cooling system's reserve capacity makes motor oil's heat conductivity a NON-ISSUE.

 

[blanchard7684]

By the way, there is another interesting thing. One of the important tasks of motor oil is to remove heat from engine parts. So, thicker oil removes heat worse than thinner oil. And our L87 engine is heat-loaded, the motor oil is hot, and the engine itself operates at a temperature of 100C. So I would not overheat it with my own hands, pouring 0-40.

Corvette must run some serious radiator then.

 

[jfoj]

Corvette must run some serious radiator then.

The Corvettes do not have active radiator shutters!!!!

 

[Z15]

Current generation of V8 to go extinct.

MSN

 

[BacDoc]

Current generation of V8 to go extinct.

MSN

At least they still are producing V8!
Not many options out there if you are looking for a truck or large SUV with a V8
I think Toyota and Lexus made a big mistake getting rid of the V8 for Land Cruiser, Sequoia and GX 550.
All the new Toyota’s even the 4 cylinder Land Cruiser require premium fuel and they don’t have better fuel efficiency than our 6.2l V8.