front wheel bearings - 4WD

[DaveO9]

Should have done this a long time ago, but had the front wheels lifted off the ground for something else today and checked for play at 6:00/12:00. Probably about .1" movement at outer edge of tire. No noise or any other ill effects from the front end, but I'm guessing it's time for replacement?

I looked at several other threads and it sound like everyone just replaces the whole hub as an assembly? Is it ever worth it to just replace the bearings? (I'd probably do R&R on the hubs myself and then get old bearings pressed out/new ones in by a shop or friend I trust) I will use either Timken or Delco either way. Guessing there's a reason everyone just replaces the whole hub.....

Are CV joints customarily done at the same time? My boots seem in good condition and there's no clunking or anything when in 4wd.

 

[OR VietVet]

Ok, so I assume you really meant (.1"). If it is making no noise, then you can drive on it. Is it original? Now me, I would do both of them and both axles and do Genuine GM all around but then again, I am a thousandaire. So, .1" is less than an 1/8" and IMO, is very drivable when there is no noise. Now I have to ask, How did you check it? yes, I know you said 12:00 and 6:00 but that was by hand/arm strength, I assume. Imagine the pressure that is on that when it is on the ground with full weight on it when turning adding pressure to it and worse the faster you go. So, again, I would replace but the small amount you felt is likely worse under pressure and you just have not heard noise yet. Go about 30-40 mph down a straight flat road and then move steering wheel left and right from about 10 to 2 and listen for noise as you load each side.

 

[B-train]

Agreed with @OR VietVet

If you have any movement when the wheel is off the ground that indicates it's on its way out. The bearings aren't replaceable, just a bolt in hub assembly. Pretty easy job as long as it's not all rusted up.

 

[steiny93]

I did a hub a year ago on a tracked rig. They had about 1/2 inch of slop, was making a lot of noise but we couldn't hear it over the tracks, they are noisy and add a lot of stress to the system. Only 1 hub was bad, other side was fine, didn't do anything to the cv's, they were fine as well. That one has like 200k on it.

.1" seems pretty tight. When you say .1" is it slop or is it flex (a bad bearing will have some play/slop vs the wheel flexing when you pull on it, if that makes any sense)? Are they both the same? If they are the same it probably isn't a bearing, they tend to go out separately and not the same rate.

I personally wouldn't get to aggressive on dropping in new bits, with these type of miles it becomes never ending pretty quick.

 

[Fubar0715]

Agreed with @OR VietVet

If you have any movement when the wheel is off the ground that indicates it's on its way out. The bearings aren't replaceable, just a bolt in hub assembly. Pretty easy job as long as it's not all rusted up.

2nd the advice...Be sure to do both otherwise, you will be cussing yourself, and wishing you had just bit the bullet and did it all at 1 time. Was hearing a slight noise out of mine a year ago, replaced both with GM units although the driver side had been replaced by PO (Border Patrol) with something from Autozone.

 

[Trey Hardy]

Should have done this a long time ago, but had the front wheels lifted off the ground for something else today and checked for play at 6:00/12:00. Probably about .1" movement at outer edge of tire. No noise or any other ill effects from the front end, but I'm guessing it's time for replacement?

I looked at several other threads and it sound like everyone just replaces the whole hub as an assembly? Is it ever worth it to just replace the bearings? (I'd probably do R&R on the hubs myself and then get old bearings pressed out/new ones in by a shop or friend I trust) I will use either Timken or Delco either way. Guessing there's a reason everyone just replaces the whole hub.....

Are CV joints customarily done at the same time? My boots seem in good condition and there's no clunking or anything when in 4wd.

Make sure to get some quality timken or kryptonite heavy duty hub assembly’s if you plan on keeping it so you don’t wind up doing it again 50,000 miles later

 

[DaveO9]

I did a hub a year ago on a tracked rig. They had about 1/2 inch of slop, was making a lot of noise but we couldn't hear it over the tracks, they are noisy and add a lot of stress to the system. Only 1 hub was bad, other side was fine, didn't do anything to the cv's, they were fine as well. That one has like 200k on it.

.1" seems pretty tight. When you say .1" is it slop or is it flex (a bad bearing will have some play/slop vs the wheel flexing when you pull on it, if that makes any sense)? Are they both the same? If they are the same it probably isn't a bearing, they tend to go out separately and not the same rate.

I personally wouldn't get to aggressive on dropping in new bits, with these type of miles it becomes never ending pretty quick.

Both fronts are the same. I'm wondering if it's actually ball joints. I didn't do a great job checking play by pulling at 9 and 3, but did seem tighter in that direction. I'm with you on dropping in new parts on these rigs. Things will fail, but trying to second guess what they are before they do is a fools errand. I'll take the added risk vs a $600 car payment any day. Just have to be willing and able to fix stuff as it starts to go.

Make sure to get some quality timken or kryptonite heavy duty hub assembly’s if you plan on keeping it so you don’t wind up doing it again 50,000 miles later

I'm not seeing Kryptonites as an option on RA? They do have Mevotech as an option, 3 different grades and the highest one is still cheaper than standard Timken. I saw Mevotech pop up on another thread with that being listed as a good option.

Thanks for everyone's input and advice. I'm going to do a little more checking on this before I buy parts, but will report back here what I find and do.

 

[OR VietVet]

Timken or GM is the way to go. Don't go cheap or you will regret.

 

[avalonandl]

I did both hubs from Timken bought on ebay

 

[Doubeleive]

I was going to recommend oreillly's for the hubs because they had the best price, but that's gone up, they were $177 now they are $268
so amazon wins at a best price of $96.82 for oem.
just be aware the abs connector plastic tends to get smashed in shipping, happens all the time. if your old sensor is still good then you can swap it in if one arrives smashed

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-FW346-Original-Equipment-Assembly/dp/B07FZFJ61G/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2MX3EH6RJXMF0&keywords=fw346&qid=1686666003&sprefix=fw346%2Caps%2C205&sr=8-1

 

[OR VietVet]

I did both hubs from Timken bought on ebay

I have bought a few things at ebay recently and noticed that the sellers seem to almost over protect what they are shipping. Takes forever to unwrap that bubble wrap sometimes.

 

[DaveO9]

I was going to recommend oreillly's for the hubs because they had the best price, but that's gone up, they were $177 now they are $268
so amazon wins at a best price of $96.82 for oem.
just be aware the abs connector plastic tends to get smashed in shipping, happens all the time. if your old sensor is still good then you can swap it in if one arrives smashed

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-FW346-Original-Equipment-Assembly/dp/B07FZFJ61G/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2MX3EH6RJXMF0&keywords=fw346&qid=1686666003&sprefix=fw346%2Caps%2C205&sr=8-1

Oh wow, thanks for this link! I was not finding OEM on Amazon just by searching. And I was not finding this cheap anywhere for anything GM or Delco. The part numbers are confusing. RA has a Delco 515096A for $180, and they have a GM Genuine 84856653, for $213. (yes, that's for just one). Searching for the Delco P/N on Amazon brings up a bunch of cheaper aftermarket stuff, but no real Delcos I could see. Searching for the GM P/N brought up just one hub assembly, not the right one, and a whole bunch of other random stuff: tools, toys, stereo install adapters, etc.! Weird. I have two of the Amazon FW346 for $96.82 ea in my cart now, but not pulling the trigger until I check ball joints, etc. in a couple days.

Any worry that the GM hub assembly on Amazon is a counterfeit?

 

[DaveO9]

After further diagnosis with the help of a shop owner friend - it’s actually the upper ball joints that are causing the play. Replace just the joints themselves with GM or whole upper control arm?

 

[Doubeleive]

After further diagnosis with the help of a shop owner friend - it’s actually the upper ball joints that are causing the play. Replace just the joints themselves with GM or whole upper control arm?

whole control arm, doing just the ball joint is a lot of labor, old one has to be ground off. It's not really a serviceable part per say but can be done

 

[OR VietVet]

After further diagnosis with the help of a shop owner friend - it’s actually the upper ball joints that are causing the play. Replace just the joints themselves with GM or whole upper control arm?

I gotta say, if you had the truck lifted at the center front crossmember and wheels were at full droop, that takes a bunch of arm strength to get play out of the upper ball joint. Unless that joint is very bad. That is when they are under full load. If you lifted that side with a jack under the lower control arm near the lower ball joint area, that takes the load off the joints and will be way easier to get play out of ball joints, especially if you use a pry bar under the tire at 6:00. How were the ball joints checked?

Either way, yes, do the complete arm and ball joint assembly and use Genuine GM when you can.

 

[donjetman]

After further diagnosis with the help of a shop owner friend - it’s actually the upper ball joints that are causing the play. Replace just the joints themselves with GM or whole upper control arm?

whole control arm

 

[DaveO9]

I gotta say, if you had the truck lifted at the center front crossmember and wheels were at full droop, that takes a bunch of arm strength to get play out of the upper ball joint. Unless that joint is very bad. That is when they are under full load. If you lifted that side with a jack under the lower control arm near the lower ball joint area, that takes the load off the joints and will be way easier to get play out of ball joints, especially if you use a pry bar under the tire at 6:00. How were the ball joints checked?

Either way, yes, do the complete arm and ball joint assembly and use Genuine GM when you can.

Hmmmm. I was going off what RA's site says when you look up front wheel bearings:

Shake Test: Identifying Play or Looseness

1. Lift your vehicle so the wheel is off the ground
2. Place your hands on the sides of the tire and try to shake the wheel
3. Now place your hands on the top and bottom of the tire and try to shake the wheel again
4. If you feel movement in both directions, you have play in your bearing and it needs to be replaced
5. Note: If you feel movement when shaking the wheel left to right, but not top to bottom, you could have a worn out tie rod end. Similarly, if you have movement top to bottom, but not left to right, you may have a worn out ball joint.

Spin Test: Identifying Noise or Grinding

1. Lift your vehicle so the wheel is off the ground and can spin freely
2. Spin the wheel, in either direction, and listen for a grinding or howling noise
3. If you hear a loud grinding or howling noise, that increases with the speed of the wheel, you have a failed bearing that needs to be replaced
4. Note: It is best to test both front or both rear bearings at the same time so you can compare the difference between the two sides. If you have a failed bearing, there will be a noticeable difference in the amount of noise you hear during this test

I wasn't there when the shop owner friend did his diagnosis. I'll jack it up tomorrow to verify that they're tight side-to-side. The bearings feel smooth as silk on the spin test, no noise at all.

One question regarding the GM Genuine control arm assembly. (P/N 25812725/6) RA has this note: "Visual Inspection Required to ID Control Arm & Ball Joint Design" It doesn't have this note for any of the other brands, what are we inspecting and how do we verify correct fit?

 

[OR VietVet]

Hmmmm. I was going off what RA's site says when you look up front wheel bearings:

Shake Test: Identifying Play or Looseness

1. Lift your vehicle so the wheel is off the ground
2. Place your hands on the sides of the tire and try to shake the wheel
3. Now place your hands on the top and bottom of the tire and try to shake the wheel again
4. If you feel movement in both directions, you have play in your bearing and it needs to be replaced
5. Note: If you feel movement when shaking the wheel left to right, but not top to bottom, you could have a worn out tie rod end. Similarly, if you have movement top to bottom, but not left to right, you may have a worn out ball joint.

Spin Test: Identifying Noise or Grinding

1. Lift your vehicle so the wheel is off the ground and can spin freely
2. Spin the wheel, in either direction, and listen for a grinding or howling noise
3. If you hear a loud grinding or howling noise, that increases with the speed of the wheel, you have a failed bearing that needs to be replaced
4. Note: It is best to test both front or both rear bearings at the same time so you can compare the difference between the two sides. If you have a failed bearing, there will be a noticeable difference in the amount of noise you hear during this test

I wasn't there when the shop owner friend did his diagnosis. I'll jack it up tomorrow to verify that they're tight side-to-side. The bearings feel smooth as silk on the spin test, no noise at all.

One question regarding the GM Genuine control arm assembly. (P/N 25812725/6) RA has this note: "Visual Inspection Required to ID Control Arm & Ball Joint Design" It doesn't have this note for any of the other brands, what are we inspecting and how do we verify correct fit?

You answered your own question. I was saying how to check the ball joints. The wheel bearing can be checked with the tires/wheels at full droop or when lifted under the lower control arm at the lower ball joint. When the tire is off the ground, lifted any way you want, there is no load on that bearing except the weight of the tire/wheel bolted to it and the brake components that are there.

 

[DaveO9]

You answered your own question. I was saying how to check the ball joints. The wheel bearing can be checked with the tires/wheels at full droop or when lifted under the lower control arm at the lower ball joint. When the tire is off the ground, lifted any way you want, there is no load on that bearing except the weight of the tire/wheel bolted to it and the brake components that are there.

My latest question is why does Rock Auto have that note about verifying the design of the ball joint when none of the other brands have that note. The note is talking about inspection for fitment, not condition. Your explanation on checking condition is good, no questions there.

 

[OR VietVet]

My latest question is why does Rock Auto have that note about verifying the design of the ball joint when none of the other brands have that note. The note is talking about inspection for fitment, not condition. Your explanation on checking condition is good, no questions there.

Can you post a link to what RA is saying/prompting you about? I may be confused because of your translation. Thanks