2021 Tahoe/Escalade Performance Brembo Brake Upgrade

[L's Truck]

Once again, absolutely and completely false (as the only advantage to bigger brakes, to be clear). Bigger brakes stop better under all circumstances. Larger rotors and pads have more friction area which is equivalent to “there’s no replacement for displacement” as they say. Sure you can upgrade to more aggressive pads with the stock brakes but at the expense of much shorter life (and they eat up the rotors so that they have to be changed when the pads wear out), noise, and dust. The Brembo pads in these kits aren’t super aggressive. The EBC Yellowstuff I put on the rear easily made 2-3 times as much dust.

Add to that the increased biting force of multiple pistons spread more evenly across the larger rotor and you will have more stopping power.

 

[Polo08816]

Once again, absolutely and completely false (as the only advantage to bigger brakes, to be clear). Bigger brakes stop better under all circumstances. Larger rotors and pads have more friction area which is equivalent to “there’s no replacement for displacement” as they say. Sure you can upgrade to more aggressive pads with the stock brakes but at the expense of much shorter life (and they eat up the rotors so that they have to be changed when the pads wear out), noise, and dust. The Brembo pads in these kits aren’t super aggressive. The EBC Yellowstuff I put on the rear easily made 2-3 times as much dust.

Stopping distances are limited by the coefficient of friction of your tires way more than your brakes as long as your brakes are capable of locking up the tires (without ABS).

 

[Polo08816]

Add to that the increased biting force of multiple pistons spread more evenly across the larger rotor and you will have more stopping power.

No matter how much 'stopping power' your brake system has, your tires will still be the limiting factor. Almost all OEM brake systems are capable of exceeding the friction limits of street tires.

Now it is possible that with a 'better brake' system with better and more consistent brake pedal feel, the driver can more consistently transfer weight to the front of the car smoothly to increase the dynamic friction of the front axle. But that's not going to be the majority of your end users for any large SUV.

 

[91RS]

Stopping distances are limited by the coefficient of friction of your tires way more than your brakes as long as your brakes are capable of locking up the tires (without ABS).

Once again, one piece of the puzzle does not the whole puzzle make. Do you only drive your engine at WOT? The peak power numbers DON’T MATTER! What does the power curve look like? That’s what matters.

 

[Kpwweb]

One thing left out here is inertia. Upgrade to larger/heavier wheels and/or tires and you will want larger brakes with more torque just to recoup the loss imposed by more inertial force due to the larger rotating mass.

 

[Polo08816]

Stopping distances are limited by the coefficient of friction of your tires way more than your brakes as long as your brakes are capable of locking up the tires (without ABS).

No matter how much 'stopping power' your brake system has, your tires will still be the limiting factor. Almost all OEM brake systems are capable of exceeding the friction limits of street tires.

Now it is possible that with a 'better brake' system with better and more consistent brake pedal feel, the driver can more consistently transfer weight to the front of the car smoothly to increase the dynamic friction of the front axle. But that's not going to be the majority of your end users for any large SUV.

Once again, one piece of the puzzle does not the whole puzzle make. Do you only drive your engine at WOT? The peak power numbers DON’T MATTER! What does the power curve look like? That’s what matters.

You're missing pieces of the puzzle. I've quoted them above.

If you're able to better modulate your brake pressure, of course the braking is going to be more stable but the variance in minimum stopping distances is going to be minimal.

Furthermore, braking performance at the limit isn't tied to brake rotor size or caliper size either. Take a platform that I'm more familiar with such as the F87 BMW M2 Competition. It has a massive 400mm rotor in the front with 6 piston Brembo calipers. But it actually does not outperform aftermarket systems that actually have a smaller rotor diameter at 372mm.

But I'm not sure that use case really matters in the world of large SUVs. The only practical benefit I see is a higher heat capacity for towing applications since light duty chassis vehicles don't have the benefit of exhaust braking that diesel 3/4 and 1 ton pickups have.

 

[Polo08816]

One thing left out here is inertia. Upgrade to larger/heavier wheels and/or tires and you will want larger brakes with more torque just to recoup the loss imposed by more inertial force due to the larger rotating mass.

Maybe if you are running R compound tires and have gobs of traction. Otherwise, it won't matter, the stock brake system is more than capable of handling larger and heavier wheels for any street application.

If what you were saying was the case, then there needs to be a corresponding rear axle brake system upgrade unless you're only running larger/heavier wheels/tires on your front axle.

 

[91RS]

Ok. You’re clearly the expert. I guess
I wasted my money, must be a placebo effect.

 

[Polo08816]

Ok. You’re clearly the expert. I guess
I wasted my money, must be a placebo effect.

I probably wouldn't buy the GM Performance Part when you could get a nearly identical product from GM which is on the PPV vehicles for significantly less:

2021 Tahoe PPV massive oem brakes, 16"

Fyi The new ppv is going to have 16in disc brakes. That's great news for the folks that like to upgrade. No more aftermarket, oem baby!! https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/11/2021-chevy-tahoe-ppv-features-highlighted-video/amp/

www.tahoeyukonforum.com

Personally, I would buy the PPV brake kit because I plan on using a 1/2 ton based full size SUV to trailer a track car on a tilt bed trailer to and from the track.

 

[robgreg75]

Add to that the increased biting force of multiple pistons spread more evenly across the larger rotor and you will have more stopping power.

Absolutely not true that is not how friction works.

Once again, absolutely and completely false (as the only advantage to bigger brakes, to be clear). Bigger brakes stop better under all circumstances. Larger rotors and pads have more friction area which is equivalent to “there’s no replacement for displacement” as they say. Sure you can upgrade to more aggressive pads with the stock brakes but at the expense of much shorter life (and they eat up the rotors so that they have to be changed when the pads wear out), noise, and dust. The Brembo pads in these kits aren’t super aggressive. The EBC Yellowstuff I put on the rear easily made 2-3 times as much dust.

Friction area is irrelevant, you clearly do not understand physics, I have a mechanical engineering degree I know physics. Bigger pads only make for longer pad life the physical area has no relation to stopping power, all that matters is the coefficient of friction of the pad. Larger rotor do give more leverage for stopping power yes, but I don't think this kit is changing the size of the rotor just the rotor has more contact area. You do realize that if these upgraded calipers have more piston surface area then the pedal travel would actually get longer/softer. From the link to the kit from Chevy it said the rotors have 22% more surface area, are the diameter the same as stock?

 

[Polo08816]

Absolutely not true that is not how friction works.


Friction area is irrelevant, you clearly do not understand physics, I have a mechanical engineering degree I know physics. Bigger pads only make for longer pad life the physical area has no relation to stopping power, all that matters is the coefficient of friction of the pad. Larger rotor do give more leverage for stopping power yes, but I don't think this kit is changing the size of the rotor just the rotor has more contact area. You do realize that if these upgraded calipers have more piston surface area then the pedal travel would actually get longer/softer. From the link to the kit from Chevy it said the rotors have 22% more surface area, are the diameter the same as stock?

I need to double check, but I think the size of the rotor changes. I remember talk about how a 18" spare does not work anymore but I don't think it was solely due to caliper to wheel clearance without a change in rotor size.

 

[Kpwweb]

Maybe if you are running R compound tires and have gobs of traction. Otherwise, it won't matter, the stock brake system is more than capable of handling larger and heavier wheels for any street application.

If what you were saying was the case, then there needs to be a corresponding rear axle brake system upgrade unless you're only running larger/heavier wheels/tires on your front axle.

You forget factor of safety. But yes, those, depending, should be replaced as well, including gearing—ahem.

So it does matter where weight is concerned. Try putting on larger and heavier wheels and tires and tell us you stop in the same distance. How about stock tires at 40-45 lbs each to e rated at 65-70 lbs each.

 

[fr8bil]

Mine has the brembo’s, better than the stock 18 denali we traded in. But I never drove a 22 with the stock brakes.

I'm driving a Yukon with the "stock brakes" and upgraded to 22"s and that's why I ordered the Brembo upgrade. Instead of a +2 I went from the OEM 18" wheel/tire to a +4 22" wheel/tire and in a hard or emergency braking situation, the vehicle clearly needs the larger diameter rotors and 6 piston calipers. They are being delivered today and will have them installed on Friday 4/8/2022.

 

[fr8bil]

Stopping distances are limited by the coefficient of friction of your tires way more than your brakes as long as your brakes are capable of locking up the tires (without ABS).

Except the Brembo's will only fit a 20" wheel and up. Ergo, you are probably increasing the size ( +2 or maybe even + 4 over OEM 18's ) of your wheel/tire and the larger tire's contact patch enables more brake force to be applied before the brake overcomes the traction of the tire on the pavement and locks up in a skid, which actually increases stopping distances. There are different thoughts on this for sure but bigger tires/wheels require bigger swept area on the rotors and more clamping force from the calipers. Aircraft designers encountered this shortly after they invented the first disc brake systems and then landing speeds of higher performance aircraft increased. If you ever get up close to a parked C-17 at an Air show's static display, check out their awesome braking system !

 

[91RS]

I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with them. They’re 100% convinced big brakes do nothing and are a waste of money. The reality is they work so well under all conditions compared to stock, I bought another set for my wife’s vehicle.

 

[Polo08816]

Except the Brembo's will only fit a 20" wheel and up. Ergo, you are probably increasing the size ( +2 or maybe even + 4 over OEM 18's ) of your wheel/tire and the larger tire's contact patch enables more brake force to be applied before the brake overcomes the traction of the tire on the pavement and locks up in a skid, which actually increases stopping distances. There are different thoughts on this for sure but bigger tires/wheels require bigger swept area on the rotors and more clamping force from the calipers. Aircraft designers encountered this shortly after they invented the first disc brake systems and then landing speeds of higher performance aircraft increased. If you ever get up close to a parked C-17 at an Air show's static display, check out their awesome braking system !

Most OEM tire/wheel setups may vary in wheel diameter but the tire diameter tends to stay the same.

I've gotten plenty close to C-17s but I've never really cared. I was just a passenger on them hoping to get to whatever ******** next without going deaf (particularly on the C-130s).

 

[Polo08816]

I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with them. They’re 100% convinced big brakes do nothing and are a waste of money. The reality is they work so well under all conditions compared to stock, I bought another set for my wife’s vehicle.

By the same token, people who do buy something are often biased the other way around and want to re-affirm that they made the right purchase.

When I factory ordered my 335i, there was a $650 option for the Brembo front and rear monoblock calipers. The main attraction wasn't that the brakes were "larger". It was the fact that they were the same calipers as those on the M3 which meant I would be able to have a larger selection of track pads to choose from and the ability to quickly swap brake pads at the track without having to remove the caliper from the wheel carrier/hub. For $650, it was a no-brainer compared to have a floating point rear caliper on the stock setup.

The reality in this case was that improved street braking performance was the result of the tires and not the brake system components. On the track, it can be a different story depending on your setup as well as towing.

 

[91RS]

Dude. The tires are NOT the limitation of a braking system under NORMAL driving! They would be a limitation under a full-on panic stop but with ABS and Stabilitrak that is mitigated to a degree.

You’re saying I’m biased toward them but it sure sounds to me like you’re biased against them based on talking points you’ve seen on the internet. Everyone who is against big brakes say the exact same things. What do I have to gain from lying about their performance? I literally just said they’re so good I bought another set. Why would I do that if it weren’t true? I don’t make a dollar if someone buys a set of these. You are absolutely wrong. The Brembos are better than the stock brakes under any and all conditions. Period.

 

[Polo08816]

Dude. The tires are NOT the limitation of a braking system under NORMAL driving! They would be a limitation under a full-on panic stop but with ABS and Stabilitrak that is mitigated to a degree.

You’re saying I’m biased toward them but it sure sounds to me like you’re biased against them based on talking points you’ve seen on the internet. Everyone who is against big brakes say the exact same things. What do I have to gain from lying about their performance? I literally just said they’re so good I bought another set. Why would I do that if it weren’t true? I don’t make a dollar if someone buys a set of these. You are absolutely wrong. The Brembos are better than the stock brakes under any and all conditions. Period.

Neither the brakes nor the tires are limitations under normal driving for any street vehicle.

You do realize that the Brembos are only front brake upgrades right? An SUV is an application where you definitely want the rear brakes to be upgraded since it is the rear axle that will most likely see the greatest range in load particularly if you've either filled the back of the SUV with gear or you are towing a trailer.

Also, you must have missed the part where I said I purchased them and the reasons I purchased them. Furthermore, since BMW offers Brembo front and rear monobloc calipers, they should theoretically offer an even greater improvement over GM's front brake upgrade. In daily driving, you won't see much of a difference over the factory floating point calipers. You'll see a tremendous difference in capability at the track in the ability of your larger rotors and monoblock front/rear calipers in being able to handle the heat your braking system will experience.

By the same token, people who do buy something are often biased the other way around and want to re-affirm that they made the right purchase.

When I factory ordered my 335i, there was a $650 option for the Brembo front and rear monoblock calipers. The main attraction wasn't that the brakes were "larger". It was the fact that they were the same calipers as those on the M3 which meant I would be able to have a larger selection of track pads to choose from and the ability to quickly swap brake pads at the track without having to remove the caliper from the wheel carrier/hub. For $650, it was a no-brainer compared to have a floating point rear caliper on the stock setup.

The reality in this case was that improved street braking performance was the result of the tires and not the brake system components. On the track, it can be a different story depending on your setup as well as towing.

 

[fr8bil]

Most OEM tire/wheel setups may vary in wheel diameter but the tire diameter tends to stay the same.

I've gotten plenty close to C-17s but I've never really cared. I was just a passenger on them hoping to get to whatever ******** next without going deaf (particularly on the C-130s).

Ha ha, if you think the C-130's are bad you should have ridden one of the "original" Piston Engine Globemasters across the Pond from England back in the early 60's before the C-130 phased them out. We Bubble-heads returning from Holy Loch thought we were in the lap of luxury the first time we hitched a ride on a returning C-130 MATS flight from Heathrow to Dulles.