Suburban 2500 or Yukon XL Denali?

[510man]

This is actually a very disappointing topic. GM abandoned their Suburban customers. I have a '99 and looked at buying a new one. The 2500 is no longer available. Barn doors are no longer available. The flat floor is gone. You can't put a sheet of plywood in the back and close the doors anymore. And on and on... I looked at getting a low mileage 2013 or 2014 since 2014 was the last year for the 2500. GM stepped the engine down to a 6.0L that makes a few more HP than the 5.7L I have now but the torque is virtually the same. But....the 2014 truck weighs 2000lbs more! What? The same power rating in a truck that ways a ton more? Ah.....no thanks.

By the way, Ford is similar. Only one engine offered in the Expedition and it's a V6.

Ford and GM want to push all their customers who tow to a pickup. I haul drums, PA and people so a pickup doesn't get it. I pull a 24ft boat so a 2500 with a bigger frame, brakes, etc. made a lot of sense..............until I looked at the crap GM is forcing on their customers now. GM sure makes it hard to be a loyal customer.

The 2007ish version appears to be the best one. It was just older than I wanted to go when I stepped back from ordering a new 2500 Suburban. That said, I decided to keep the '99 truck I have until GM goes back to building trucks that make sense instead of grocery getters. I can do a lot of repairs and upgrades on the 1999 for the $25K I would have paid for the low mileage 2013 I located

 

[intheburbs]

This is actually a very disappointing topic. GM abandoned their Suburban customers. I have a '99 and looked at buying a new one. The 2500 is no longer available. Barn doors are no longer available. The flat floor is gone. You can't put a sheet of plywood in the back and close the doors anymore. And on and on... I looked at getting a low mileage 2013 or 2014 since 2014 was the last year for the 2500. GM stepped the engine down to a 6.0L that makes a few more HP than the 5.7L I have now but the torque is virtually the same. But....the 2014 truck weighs 2000lbs more! What? The same power rating in a truck that ways a ton more? Ah.....no thanks.

By the way, Ford is similar. Only one engine offered in the Expedition and it's a V6.

Ford and GM want to push all their customers who tow to a pickup. I haul drums, PA and people so a pickup doesn't get it. I pull a 24ft boat so a 2500 with a bigger frame, brakes, etc. made a lot of sense..............until I looked at the crap GM is forcing on their customers now. GM sure makes it hard to be a loyal customer.

The 2007ish version appears to be the best one. It was just older than I wanted to go when I stepped back from ordering a new 2500 Suburban. That said, I decided to keep the '99 truck I have until GM goes back to building trucks that make sense instead of grocery getters. I can do a lot of repairs and upgrades on the 1999 for the $25K I would have paid for the low mileage 2013 I located

A 4X8 sheet of plywood does indeed fit in the GMT900 trucks. You just stack them on top of the folded middle and third row seats. I've never had more than 10 sheets in mine, you can probably do at least 20 and still close the tailgate.

With regards to the 6.0 engine vs the 5.7 - I have to suppress a chuckle. Are you really comparing an ancient 5.7 to a VVT 6.0? Right here, right now, I challenge you to a drag race for $100, and I promise all you'll see is my tailgate as I walk away from you. The 6.0 has no redline - it revs happily right up to 6000 RPM, and that's exactly what happens if you hold your foot down all the way. The further you push your foot, the faster it goes. I have mine tuned with the speed governor removed, and I've pegged the speedometer at 120 MPH. With the 6-speed transmission, it pulls like a freight train.

I tow an 8600-lb, 35-ft travel trailer with my '08 2500. I've had it all over the country, including the Eisenhower tunnel at over 11,000 feet of altitude. The ONLY SUV/truck more badass than my Suburban is the GMT800 2500 Suburban with the 8.1 L.

Take a look at your owners manual - the weight ratings for your '99 vs the weight ratings for the GMT900 trucks. The GMT900 are more capable in every possible way, and they also have creature comforts like remote start, quad heated seats, power/remote tailgate, backup camera, etc.

ETA: Yes, Ford and GM have abandoned folks who need a three-row SUV for heavy towing. But the sales numbers just didn't make sense. For 2008, for example, GM built/sold over 50,000 half-ton Suburbans. Want to guess how many 2500 trucks were built? 5,678. I have it right on my build sheet. I doubt the ratio got any better through 2013. The sales just weren't there to support continuing to build them.

 

[swathdiver]

A '99 C2500 has a tow rating of 6,000 pounds with a 3.73 gear and 7,500 with a 4.10 gear when powered by the 5.7. It's not much better with the old 6.5 Diesel but is 10,000 pounds with the 454 and 4.10s. The K2500 with 4.10s and the 5.7 is limited to 7,000 pounds. And those old motors MUST have an engine oil cooler if towing more than 2,000 pounds per the owner's manual. Even our 5.3s with 3.08 gears can pull 5,000 pounds with their standard cooling system. That being said, they are great trucks, the new ones are even better.

I had a buddy lift my truck (1500) off the ground from the rear of the frame, going barely past the rear bumper underneath and the truck did not buckle or bend a millimeter. They are tougher than the heavy halfs that GM used to make.

 

[Derick]

You can always consider an excursion. Bummer those went the way of the dodo too.

 

[thompsoj22]

We tow a loaded weight 4800 lb TT, Used to do it with a 03 tahoe with the 4.8! It was a white knuckle experience as to whether it would make it up the hil, blow up at 4k rpm or be able to stop at the bottom of the hill! And if there was a headwind just pull over and tell the family "were here" and camp on the shoulder of where ever lol! Traded it in on a 08 denali xl1500 with 125k miles and paid $17k. wow what a fantastic vehicle! It tows beautifully and it's truly a "road limo". My opinion is get the denali, im not quite sure what towing safety factors weigh into a 1500 vs 2500 other than tounge weight? Towing requires ability/focus to avoid emergenciy situations. By the time your fishtailing, to fast for the turn, to fast to stop in time, I question if a 2500 chasis will correct driver error.

 

[intheburbs]

My opinion is get the denali, im not quite sure what towing safety factors weigh into a 1500 vs 2500 other than tounge weight? Towing requires ability/focus to avoid emergenciy situations. By the time your fishtailing, to fast for the turn, to fast to stop in time, I question if a 2500 chasis will correct driver error.

A 2500 truck weighs about 1000 lbs more than a 1500 truck. That extra weight means more control, more stability and reduced tendency for the tail to wag the dog.

The 2500 has a heavier-duty braking system. This means less brake fade on long descents, and better stopping power in a panic situation.

The 2500 has stiffer springs/suspension so that means less squat and less porpoising, again improving visibility and stability.

And the 2500, by inherent design, has more-durable components that are better-suited to towing - axles, springs, bearings, steering etc.

When I first bought my 2500 Suburban I still had the same 7,000-lb trailer that had broken my 1500 '01 Burb. I towed the trailer with both trucks for comparison and the difference was stark. I will never tow a large trailer with a half ton SUV again.

Now, my Sierra Denali does quite well, to my surprise. Two things working for it over the '01 half ton - better engine with more gears, and longer wheelbase. I was surprised how big of a difference that 14" makes. But again, if I towed regularly with it, I'd expect it to need more maintenance than a 3/4-ton, and more component replacements.

 

[510man]

[QUOTE="I tow an 8600-lb, 35-ft travel trailer with my '08 2500. [/QUOTE]

I think you read too quickly. The HP/torque comparison I made was to the 2013 and 2014 model. I seem to recall quite a step down from earlier years. As I further stated a 2007-2008 is not a consideration when stepping back from ordering a new truck. If I want an antique truck, I can keep what I have.

 

[swathdiver]

[QUOTE="I tow an 8600-lb, 35-ft travel trailer with my '08 2500.

I think you read too quickly. The HP/torque comparison I made was to the 2013 and 2014 model. I seem to recall quite a step down from earlier years. As I further stated a 2007-2008 is not a consideration when stepping back from ordering a new truck. If I want an antique truck, I can keep what I have.[/QUOTE]

The GMT900 2500s were last offered to the public in 2013, even though the platform continued for one more year. Same with the Avalanche and Escalade EXT. The 6.0 liter engines the original Gen IV LY6 (2007-2009) and FlexFuel L96 (2010-2013) essentially make the same horsepower and torque.

GM does still make the SUV in 2500 and 3500 chassis for fleet and government and they come up for sale infrequently.

 

[Derick]

GM does still make the SUV in 2500 and 3500 chassis for fleet and government and they come up for sale infrequently.

Canada is selling some. Armored no less. Along with a bunch of Chrysler 300s. Was from some sort of public event a couple years ago...cant remember what.

Source https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopn...undreds-of-nearly-new-chrysler-1830343840/amp

But it doesn't specify 2500s..hrm

 

[intheburbs]

I think you read too quickly. The HP/torque comparison I made was to the 2013 and 2014 model. I seem to recall quite a step down from earlier years. As I further stated a 2007-2008 is not a consideration when stepping back from ordering a new truck. If I want an antique truck, I can keep what I have.

My reading comprehension is just fine.

The GMT900 platform remained pretty much unchanged between 2007 and 2013. No major changes, just small things like Bluetooth and adding an integrated trailer brake controller. The 2007 2500 trucks still had the carry-over 4-speed transmission, but starting in 2008 they got the 6L90.

So if you looked at a spec sheet for a 2008 2500 Suburban and a 2013 2500 Suburban - horsepower, torque, fuel economy, payload, towing rating, engine, transmission, etc - they'd be identical.

And as Jim mentioned, 2013 was the last year for the 2500, not 2014.

And I have no idea what you mean by "quite a step down from earlier years." Each successive generation has gotten more horsepower, better gas mileage, and more hauling capability. The only exception is the GMT800 2500 trucks, which had slightly more payload and higher towing because the GMT900 hitch was moved higher and had to be part of the crumple zone and not as strong. But still, I'll take the tradeoff to get the newer goodies - remote start, power tailgate, backup camera (great for hitching up without a spotter), etc.

 

[jsoltren]

Bear in mind that the Denalis and Escalades, with the aluminum 6.2L V8, recommend premium gas for maximum fun. At least around here premium gas commands a premium price.

I got my 2500 because I plan on keeping it forever. Test drive both and see.

 

[norcalboon]

In the end I purchased a local 2012 Yukon XL Denali with 100K miles. Unable to close a deal on a 2009 XL Denali, I convinced myself a 2500 was the rig for me...and then I found this Denali and gave it a look, and a week or so later it was mine. Here's the details if you are interested.

Replacing: 2005 Yukon XL SLT, 158K (5.3, 3.42, Tru Cool 40K Trans Cooler, Powerstop K36 brakes/rotors)
Stats: Family of 5 (kids ages 3,5,7) and a German Sheppard (6 months)
Purpose: Wife DD, several trips per year up and down I5 from NorCal to SoCal, Tow Vehicle for approx. 7K Travel Trailer making 8-10 trips a year within 100 miles and typically one longer trip.

I say 7K for the TT but haven't been weighed. It's 5.5K dry and I don't tow full of water so using 7K is a more than reasonable estimate IMO and likely a little high.

The 2005 has been great for the last 3 years I've had it, and tows "OK". It's gotten us everywhere we've gone without too many issues, but any grade requires 2nd gear and if I don't maintain at least 3500 RPM we crawl up hills at 35 MPH. It feels like it's working hard. I wanted a better (safer) towing experience, and it was starting to feel a little dated.

I've been researching options for the past few months and started this post by asking members to compare a 2007 Yukon XL 2500 (4 spd, 6.0) to a 2009 Denali XL. The feedback was mixed, the Denali option received more votes but a compelling case was made for a 2500.

After the 2009 Denali deal fell though (details in earlier post) I was pretty resigned to waiting to find the right 2500. Basically wanted to complete the swap well before a long trip planned to bend, OR this summer. Then this 2012 Denali popped up, literally 2 miles from my work. Offered by a small broker/dealer who cherry picks auctions and tries to turn 5-10 vehicles/month working out of a small industrial warehouse = low overhead. He'd had this one for almost 2 months and reduced from $22.9K to $20,491, which got my attention, so I decided to check it out. He said he paid $19K at auction FWIW.

It was the exact version we wanted; tri-coat pearl (see pic), black leather, captains 2nd row, integrated TB, (obviously tow package). I drove it adn did an initial inspection (visual, fluids, under carriage, tried most all the 'bells and whistles'. Everything worked, it was in Very Good condition.

It was a 2 owner, Bay Area vehicle, and using the Carfax report I spent the next couple of days contacting all the service providers and obtaining all the service records. No red flags, some TPMS issues, regular oil changes, nothing major. I even 'Zillowed' the previous owners home addresses (yes, privacy loophole here) and saw that it had come from 2 Very Nice homes. Hitch cover was still on so I removed and saw no evidence of previous towing. All indications are it was a soccer mom rig for the first part of its life.

I did not have a mechanic do a pre-inspection. I considered it, but decided against it. The dealer had a local brake shop put new pads/rotors on and had changed the oil. The Bridgestone tires are mismatched (pet peeve) front/back, but have decent tread left.

We've had it a week or so and I've only had a chance to drive it one time to work, otherwise we put it right into service. So far we love it. I plan to drive it a couple thousand miles then have it in to:

-trans flush ( I've read all about pros and cons, but prefer to flush and have a trans shop I trust)
-trans cooler (will likely stick with the Tru Cool 40K)
-differentials, coolant, brake fluid, flushes
-plugs/wires

And I've made it all this way without even mentioning the biggest concern I have with this rig, AFM.

My understanding is that GM made a change to the AFM hardware sometime around 2011 which improved the reliability of the system somewhat. I also understand that since the AFM lifters are oil pressure triggered, clean synthetic oil is very important. So I plan to reduce my oil change interval to 5K miles.

The other negative might be that it prefers premium gas, but I commute in a hybrid so I figure I balance out our gas costs and it doesn't cause me great concern.

So far we are very happy and planning to take it from 100K miles to 200K miles (5-7 years) and then decide if to take out of DD rotation and just keep as TV.

Will I regret not getting the 2500 unicorn? Perhaps, but at the end of the day, especially considering what we are coming from, I believe the Denali will suit our needs just fine. and to be frank it's probably the better vehicle for 90% of the uses we will put to it.

Driving Impressions: the 6 spd trans will take a little getting used to - early shift points in the lower gears, and I find the throttle response lags just a bit. It sounds throaty but not annoyingly, and I do like the 400hp when you stomp on it. It rides quiet and solid. The kids really like the "hallway" in between the 2nd row. We love the bells and whistles, I just need to change some of the settings (remote start, mirror positioning in reverse, lights and locks).

Thanks again for your responses, I find this forum to be a good source of information on these rigs.

Here's some pics of the new and old:

 

[gooffeyguy]

Nice find!

I hate the factory center console cup holder area with the lids. I swapped mine out with a standard Tahoe/Yukon one. The piece just pulls out and snaps in

2001 Yukon SLT
2012 Yukon Denali XL
2011 Yukon Denali RIP 5/20/18

 

[swathdiver]

In the end I purchased a local 2012 Yukon XL Denali with 100K miles.

Great write up Clay! Your new ride already has a trans cooler but I know folks like to stuff those bigger ones in there. Consider a tune anyway for the improved transmission performance and get a Tech-2 so you can work on it.

Then take the TT & rig out to the scales and find out what it really weighs.

Measure the tread depth of the tires, AWD doesn't like differences between tread depths at all.

Looks real nice, ya done good! Check the Nav unit for previous addresses and the Onstar phone book too.

 

[norcalboon]

First camp trip in the books and I finally got to tow with the Denali. First, it sits higher than my 2005 Yukon XL, and the air ride works great - the compressor(s) come on once hooked up and then stop once level. However I need to adjust my WD hitch mount a couple inches lower now. We only went about 100 miles round trip, but I finally was able to get weighed fully loaded - 12,740 lbs. The curb weight of the Denali is listed as 5,860, so with 5 people (2 adults, 3 kids) and a dog I figure we're at about 6,500# for the Denali, and about 6,300# for our TT. It's 5,280# dry and I had been conservatively estimating a max weight of 7K - so 6,300# seems reasonable (don't carry water). That leaves me 1,260# under the GCWR of 14K# - or approx 90% of max. I'm comfortable with these numbers.

Pretty flat tow, one medium 2 mile grade, but the Denali pulled great. I'm not a fan of the shift points in non-tow/haul mode - to quick IMO. But in tow/haul mode the shift points are great, and it pulled easy in 4th & 5th gears - power to spare. Even up the grade it was easy 2K RPM steady speed.

I should mention that in the 6 weeks I've had it, I had the trans flushed (clean, no codes from Trans), added a 40K trans cooler, replaced the radiator, and both the trans & engine cooler lines. Had some seepage from the lines and small radiator leak and since we plan to keep long term and use for towing I went ahead with those now. Still need to get the plugs and wires done, and will be getting new tires before a long trip this summer, and rear brakes, will likely stick with OEM.

Wife has been getting about 11/12 MPG around town - mostly short trips, lots of stops/starts. Only one longer non-towing trip, but up into elevation (3-4K ft), encountered some snow (AWD worked great) and got over 17 MPG on that trip. Didn't get a chance to figure the towing MPG yet. Using Premium 91 octane, in California. No E85 conveniently located near me so will likely stick with this.

So far everything else is working, kids like the DVD although we only turn that on for long trips, and then sparingly. Initial impressions are very positive, hoping for a long and reliable lifespan from it.

 

[intheburbs]

Glad things went well.

With regards to weights, the GCW and GCWR are not the important numbers. Do you still have the weigh slip? GVW/GVWR and RAW/RAWR are the critical numbers. You'll overload your rear axle long before you reach 14,000 lbs GCW. And reweighs are generally free, so what I've done with a new rig is weigh the combined rig, then unhitch the trailer and weigh again, to see both numbers. The result is something like this, and it's usually an eye-opener:

 

[norcalboon]

Thanks - can you interpret what am I looking at in your picture? I only received a Gross Only weight - it was a quick stop so I can definitely go back, but would like to better understand what your post means from a practical interpretation standpoint.

The result is something like this, and it's usually an eye-opener:

[/QUOTE]

 

[Derick]

Looks like a cat scale ticket? Reweighs are free within 3 days. Just FYI.

 

[swathdiver]

CAT Scales have three scales so you can weigh the steer axle, drive axle and load. You can weigh the tonque of your trailer on the first scale and both axles on the second. Then move the trailer up to weigh each axle separately and this way you can see if she's loaded properly.

One should also weigh the whole setup, truck and trailer, to make sure the axles aren't too light or overloaded and if they are, adjust the weight distribution accordingly.

 

[thompsoj22]

To the original post, You mention using the carfax to contact dealers to get complete vehicle history? If the carfax say's replace rear brakes/rotors will the dealer have a more detailed report? I have a carfax report also with all the maint done exclusively by one dealer, If i call them they can give a better breakdown of what they did?