Using thicker oil in 2022 Tahoe 5.3L Engine

[Silverado4x4]

The real number is under 600,000. The problem was not oil, its shoddy parts.

The fact is that 0W-20 oil has been the factory-fill for many millions of engines in the last 20 yrs from Honda, Toyota and GM (to name a few) there will still be those who want to believe the myth that 0W-20 oils will wear out engines.

I agree with that 100%. Like I said before NO oil is going to protect bad out of spec parts period. But some people think they know more then GM,FORD, DODGE engineers.

 

[jfoj]

I agree with that 100%. Like I said before NO oil is going to protect bad out of spec parts period. But some people think they know more then GM,FORD, DODGE engineers.

The problem is the Engineers cannot run what is needed. They are forced to do STUPID things!!!

Again, need to understand the application, many do not get this point!

 

[Z15]

I agree with that 100%. Like I said before NO oil is going to protect bad out of spec parts period. But some people think they know more then GM,FORD, DODGE engineers.

30 years ago they were saying the same things about synthetic oil. I recall reading this way back then from GM dispelling myths. I actually knew someone who was afraid to buy a Corvette because it had synthetic oil.

The Synthetic Oil Myth -- Then there is the myth that new engine break-in will not occur with synthetic oils. This one was apparently started by an aircraft engine manufacturer who put out a bulletin that said so. The fact is that Mobil 1 synthetic oil has been the factory-fill for many thousands of engines. Clearly, they have broken in quite well, and that should put this one to rest.
Thanks to Bob Olree – GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group

 

[jfoj]

Shake my head.

30+ years ago some manufacturers actually shipped their vehicles with a specific "Break In Oil" that needed to be changed at 500 miles. But also understand when synthetic oils were first introduced there were few synthetic options as well. So many may have not been a wise choice for some applications.

But also understand that piston ring material and cylinder wall finish has changed dramatically over the past 30+ years as well. Today he piston rings are for the most part broken in/seated during the factor Cold Testing.

The oil was less of an issue for break in back in the day with the exception of flat tappet camshaft engines. But understand this, the Oil Industry seems to always be playing catch up to what the auto manufacturers need. Why do you think there have been so many oil spec changes. Many additives that used to be in oil have been removed and substituted for other additives. Some due to catalyst contamination, some due to combustion chamber impact and so forth.

But we are talking more about what viscosity oil is required and not really Synthetic vs Dino oil to hold a proper oil wedge, not sheer prematurely, provide enough cushion and hold up under severe pressure loading. Then there are all the other minor things about how long can we make the oil last and reduce LSPI. But proper and complete lubrication is more important than other aspects.

No need for an oil that will last 15k miles when your engine fails at 10k miles!

 

[Marky Dissod]

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2025/05/gm-6-2l-l87-engine-recall-engineer-explains-differences-between-oil-viscosities/

Stribeck curve ... Hersey number ... more hydrodynamic lubrication ... less boundary lubrication

 

[West 1]

On the manufacturing side Toyota has been building engines with very tight rod and main clearance for over 20 years. They wanted exact oil clearances on every engine. They claimed it quieted NVH, Noise Vibration and Harmonics and enhanced engine life. Most other engine manufacturers allowed a lot of variance engine to engine on these clearances. Toyota did not. Probably why they saw engine bearings living for 300,000 miles routinely. Dodge was producing the loose engines on the other side of the spectrum but again, my information is old now. Maybe all manufacturers followed Toyota's lead and tightened up clearances in the last 10 years. Tolerances make a big difference in oil bleed off at the engine bearings and thin oils bleed much more than thicker oils. What Toyota made work may have not been followed by other manufacturers as it took much more time for them to assemble an engine at the tighter specs. Toyota did not just install bearings at standard size and call it good. They had standard size and color matched each bearing half showing exactly how much they varied from standard. So if the bearing thickness was blueprinted to .0237 each bearing was measured. If it measured .0235 it might get a Red dot, it it measured .0236 it might get an orange dot. They had as many as 8 colors for the same size bearing and used the color stamps while building to attain the exact sizes so the crank ran straight and had the exact clearance their blueprint called for. It was cutting edge and Toyota did it first and for many years no other manufacturer invested to do the same. Again, my info is dated and maybe more if not all do that today. I think the Main clearances they were shooting for back then were .0013 oil clearance while most other manufacturers were happy with a window of .00175 to .00255. Any engine in that window of size was deemed perfect and good to go. Not at Toyota at least back then. So what Toyota used and had work does not apply to what other manufacturers do.

Bearing quality may have changed also, bearings built in the far east were just starting to be used when I was leaving. The new companies were years behind in quality but were coming in at very low prices and bean counters love low prices so who knows where and what quality bearings are today.

 

[B-train]

When will this conversation end? 0W20 has been used for decades now in a variety of applications, including GM's 5.3L. There are tens of millions of vehicles out there that have run hundreds of billions (if not a trillion) of miles with no major issues. I have not seen any issues with the 5.3L since they changed to 0W20 over a decade ago. You guys make it sound like using 0W20 is like pouring acid and sand into your engine when the real world says something completely different.

My reply would be that you're correct that many, many engines have been produced and run this oil. However, you are part of a forum where people appreciate their rigs and want to do what's best for longevity and eliminate potential costly repairs due to ignorant govt influence.

The basic facts are that engines that used to last over 400k with factory 5w-30 don't exist anymore - due to multiple factors, but too thin of oil being one of them. Sure, your 5.3L will last the 100k warranty and probably a bit more with the bare minimum that GM says is necessary. What you don't hear is the tons of stories why people ditched a vehicle due to engine issues and didn't blab it on a forum. Or that they were afraid of costy repairs and traded it in.

0w-20 has proven to work, but I wouldn't bet any long term ownership on it going by the prescribed maintenance schedule. How many 2015 and newer trucks / suvs do you hear of with over 250, 300, or 400k on the original powetrain? Not many as far as I can see.

It's planned obsolescence in the name of fuel economy and 'protecting the consumer'.

Ultimately, to answer your initial question of "when will this end". It's purely up to you, the owner, how you want to maintain your vehicle. If 0w-20 is your gig, then do it. Most people on here who support otherwise may have different life experiences that provide them with different feedback/knowledge that they choose to go by.......Me being one of them.

 

[Vladimir2306]

My reply would be that you're correct that many, many engines have been produced and run this oil. However, you are part of a forum where people appreciate their rigs and want to do what's best for longevity and eliminate potential costly repairs due to ignorant govt influence.

The basic facts are that engines that used to last over 400k with factory 5w-30 don't exist anymore - due to multiple factors, but too thin of oil being one of them. Sure, your 5.3L will last the 100k warranty and probably a bit more with the bare minimum that GM says is necessary. What you don't hear is the tons of stories why people ditched a vehicle due to engine issues and didn't blab it on a forum. Or that they were afraid of costy repairs and traded it in.

0w-20 has proven to work, but I wouldn't bet any long term ownership on it going by the prescribed maintenance schedule. How many 2015 and newer trucks / suvs do you hear of with over 250, 300, or 400k on the original powetrain? Not many as far as I can see.

It's planned obsolescence in the name of fuel economy and 'protecting the consumer'.

Ultimately, to answer your initial question of "when will this end". It's purely up to you, the owner, how you want to maintain your vehicle. If 0w-20 is your gig, then do it. Most people on here who support otherwise may have different life experiences that provide them with different feedback/knowledge that they choose to go by.......Me being one of them.

This is not true. The fact that you saw a couple of old cars that went 400 thousand miles with 5-30 oil does not give the full picture. In statistics, this is called "Survivorship Bias." This is a very interesting femme, read it, it will be very interesting.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Maybe in the great white frozen north of Russia, the 0W vs 5W makes a difference on cold start. But in normal operating conditions the difference at startup is negligible.

This is not about snowy Russia, this is about the oil density during a cold start. And a cold start is not when it is -40F outside, and even when it is +100F outside, and yes, such weather in "snowy Russia" often happens in the summer. The oil pump is programmed for oil with index 0, during a cold start, it supplies a certain amount of oil to the engine before starting the engine.

And you give it a thicker oil. Without reprogramming. What will happen? That's right, there will be less oil, during cold start. Engines of this generation already have reliability issues, and I wouldn't make it worse on purpose.

 

[Z15]

The definition of cold Is different for each person. It’s also different for your engine. An engine is considered cold after it’ sat long enough to cool to ambient temperature, typically overnight. A 60° morning can feel cold after weeks of hot summer 90°+temps. Modern engines with Variable Valve Timing (VVT), Active or Dynamic Fuel Management (AFM/DFM) can be affected. Engines equipped with these technologies use solenoids with tiny openings through which oil flows and acts as a hydraulic fluid to activate the components. Those who ignore the OEM viscosity requirements can reduce engine performance, ergo oil consumption, engine ticking etc.

 

[B-train]

This is not true. The fact that you saw a couple of old cars that went 400 thousand miles with 5-30 oil does not give the full picture. In statistics, this is called "Survivorship Bias." This is a very interesting femme, read it, it will be very interesting.

Here in America it's not a few, it's many, many thousands of them. A quick look on sales boards all around TX, OK, GA, FL, etc will show trucks that didn't have the ability to rust out and have racked up enormous amounts of miles as daily drivers.

I've watched this for years and it is not uncommon in any of the first LS motors (1999- 2006). It's also not uncommon in any non-CAFE work trucks up to 2020 with the 6.0L that have zillions of miles on them while running 5w-30 their entire life.

There are also some high mileage 6.6L work trucks coming available that again run the 5w-30 from the factory.

This oil debate has turned into something similar to religion, or politics........ultimately do what you want and see how it works out long term. If you're a person who doesn't keep vehicles long term, then the risk factor is quite low. For people who may keep a vehicle for 10+ years, that number increases; and proper care, maintenance, and inputs make a huge difference.

 

[PPK_]

NO>>

See following photo. New 3.0 l in my '25 sierra. New tooling. oil change at 500 miles had much LESS material in oil. Tooling on old 5.3 build has had it.... it what it is.

I am disappointed in having a gm v8. i had 2018 5.3l.. and the oil change had little to nothing in it. the new one has all kinds of junk in it. i wish had two 3.0s.. bummer.

 

[2024 White Tahoe]

Shake my head.

30+ years ago some manufacturers actually shipped their vehicles with a specific "Break In Oil" that needed to be changed at 500 miles. But also understand when synthetic oils were first introduced there were few synthetic options as well. So many may have not been a wise choice for some applications.

But also understand that piston ring material and cylinder wall finish has changed dramatically over the past 30+ years as well. Today he piston rings are for the most part broken in/seated during the factor Cold Testing.

The oil was less of an issue for break in back in the day with the exception of flat tappet camshaft engines. But understand this, the Oil Industry seems to always be playing catch up to what the auto manufacturers need. Why do you think there have been so many oil spec changes. Many additives that used to be in oil have been removed and substituted for other additives. Some due to catalyst contamination, some due to combustion chamber impact and so forth.

But we are talking more about what viscosity oil is required and not really Synthetic vs Dino oil to hold a proper oil wedge, not sheer prematurely, provide enough cushion and hold up under severe pressure loading. Then there are all the other minor things about how long can we make the oil last and reduce LSPI. But proper and complete lubrication is more important than other aspects.

No need for an oil that will last 15k miles when your engine fails at 10k miles!

Can you provide examples of some manufacturers that shipped a new engine / vehicle 30 years ago with break-in oil that had to be changed after 500 miles?

I purchased my first new car in 1975 - a 1975 Chevrolet Nova Customer 2dr. I do not recall ANY new car coming with special break-in oil (other than perhaps an exotic such as Ferrari).

 

[Vladimir2306]

The definition of cold Is different for each person. It’s also different for your engine. An engine is considered cold after it’ sat long enough to cool to ambient temperature, typically overnight. A 60° morning can feel cold after weeks of hot summer 90°+temps. Modern engines with Variable Valve Timing (VVT), Active or Dynamic Fuel Management (AFM/DFM) can be affected. Engines equipped with these technologies use solenoids with tiny openings through which oil flows and acts as a hydraulic fluid to activate the components. Those who ignore the OEM viscosity requirements can reduce engine performance, ergo oil consumption, engine ticking etc.

That's it

 

[jfoj]

My 2005 Yukon Denali has 275,000 miles, I still am driving it daily. It's entire life had either 10W30 or 5W30. But now with the higher mileage I'm likely going to go back to 10W30 due to the engine wear. Unfortunately I didn't maintain it like I probably should have much busier in life with kids and other distractions. In retrospect I wish I would have maintained it better but it's taking a beating and still going.

And it only been to the dealer once in 20 years while it was under warranty for the nav radio crapping out.

The engines never been apart. The only thing on the engine that's been replaced is the water pump and the only other bigger item that needed to be replaced was the transfer case it was leaking severely at about 250,000 mi. Still on original transmission that's never had any thing other than a couple fluid and filter changes.

The biggest PITA repair was replacing all the metal brake lines because they were rusting out which is an extremely common problem with every vehicle built in the US from about 1999 till 2007. Bean counters somewhere along the line decided to quit painting and coating the metal brake lines and they'd last about 10 years depending on climate.

 

[jfoj]

Can you provide examples of some manufacturers that shipped a new engine / vehicle 30 years ago with break-in oil that had to be changed after 500 miles?

I purchased my first new car in 1975 - a 1975 Chevrolet Nova Customer 2dr. I do not recall ANY new car coming with special break-in oil (other than perhaps an exotic such as Ferrari).

Honda for sure and possibly other imports used to do it. Unaware that any American cars in that time frame suggested that process.

While many manufacturers don't suggest it I follow the 500 mi rule. And based on what I'm seeing coming out the oil drain plug and in the oil filters it's a very wise idea to change the oil often with new engines. All this new technology crap doesn't seem to be able to build as clean of an engine as I could build in my garage 30 to 40 years ago.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Honda for sure and possibly other imports used to do it. Unaware that any American cars in that time frame suggested that process.

While many manufacturers don't suggest it I follow the 500 mi rule. And based on what I'm seeing coming out the oil drain plug in an oil filters it's a very wise idea to change the oil often with new engines. All this new technology crap doesn't seem to be able to build as clean of an engine as I could build in my garage 30 to 40 years ago.

there was no break-in oil there, the regular oil was poured there. It is simply true that after assembling the engine on a new car it is recommended to change the oil after 1000 miles to remove wear products and shavings, and even particles of sealant that are washed out during the break-in process. But the oil there is not special, but the same that is poured further.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Here in America it's not a few, it's many, many thousands of them. A quick look on sales boards all around TX, OK, GA, FL, etc will show trucks that didn't have the ability to rust out and have racked up enormous amounts of miles as daily drivers.

I've watched this for years and it is not uncommon in any of the first LS motors (1999- 2006). It's also not uncommon in any non-CAFE work trucks up to 2020 with the 6.0L that have zillions of miles on them while running 5w-30 their entire life.

There are also some high mileage 6.6L work trucks coming available that again run the 5w-30 from the factory.

This oil debate has turned into something similar to religion, or politics........ultimately do what you want and see how it works out long term. If you're a person who doesn't keep vehicles long term, then the risk factor is quite low. For people who may keep a vehicle for 10+ years, that number increases; and proper care, maintenance, and inputs make a huge difference.

Look at the road around you. How many 25 year old cars will you see? I don't think so, it's good if 1 out of 10, or even less. The bulletin boards don't say anything, their ratio should be a thousand to one new car. But you will most likely see an equal number of 25 year old and new, or even fewer old cars. Judge the reliability of old cars by several examples, t's like judging people's longevity by a dozen old people aged 100-110 years, forgetting about the billions who didn't live to be 80 years old)

 

[jerry455]

I live in Michigan and fuel and brake lines plus bodies have been rusting through forever. I have replaced many sets of brake lines on lots of GM trucks older than 1999.

 

[jfoj]

@jerry455

I am sure you have replaced brake lines on models older than 1999, but the brake line vendor for almost all the US vehicle production starting in 1999 to something after 2007 chose not to coat, plate or paint the steel brake lines supplied to the US auto manufacturers. May have been the same for Canada, but all I know about is US production.

I know all about the rust belt, however, for some reason almost all the vehicles built in the US between 1999 and 2007 had uncoated, unplated, unpainted steel brake lines and most of the brake lines rusted and failed within 7-10 years depending on the area the car spent most of its time. I am not even located in the heavy rust belt and I had 4 family vehicles that were 2002-2005 that ALL had to have the complete brake lines replaced within 10 years, most of these vehicle has little to no body rust. Fuel lines were fine.

On my 2005 Yukon Denali the 1 brake line that runs on top of the rear axle was painted for some reason and it looks like it day it left the factory 20 years later, but before the vehicle was 10 years old I replaced all but that 1 painted brake line. I did this proactively before the lines blew out, but when I removed them there was a small pin hole leaking right below the drivers footwell, so I caught it just in time before it blew out.