The New V8 Engines are coming!

[Bigburb3500]

Corvette's E Ray and ZR1X sort of blows your theories out the door.

I was not even aware they went hybrid! That’s pretty cool! I wonder if they were designed from the ground up to accept the hybrid systems? Wonder how truly different their V8s are compared to the truck V8s?

 

[homesick]

I was not even aware they went hybrid! That’s pretty cool! I wonder if they were designed from the ground up to accept the hybrid systems? Wonder how truly different their V8s are compared to the truck V8s?

AFAIK, you don't need to change anything in an internal combustion engine to charge batteries with it. The only needed change would be in what you connect it to.

joe

 

[Marky Dissod]

The engine is not nearly as different as the engine control unit (ecu).

 

[Dirty looks]

Not necessarily. More and more of these vehicles are handed from one driver directly to another. Goal is 3 drivers for every vehicle.
Chief reason why this is still 'light duty' is TLC drivers strive to drive like 'hypermilers', even though hypermiling in NYC is infuriating for the rider(s) and other drivers.
But even though it's light duty, these vehicles seldom accrue under 200 miles a day x 6 days a week = 4800 miles a month, often closer to 6000 miles a month.

At 70,000 miles a year, how long are those battery packs supposed to last again? Because most hybrids with defunct battery packs are torture to drive.

They are light duty because all they move are a couple of people at a time while traveling on hard surface roads.
Where I come from pick up trucks work for a living, often in brutal conditions. We don't need more gadgets.
EV's are not going to save the world. They are still dirty polluters that give the illusion that you are hugging trees.

 

[Marky Dissod]

... Chief reason why this is still 'light duty' ...

... even though it's light duty ...

They are light duty because ...

So, we agree, then.

EV's are not going to save the world. They are still dirty polluters that give the illusion that you are hugging trees.

Definitely agree on this one. We passed up hydraulic hybridization, apparently BECAUSE electrical hybridization requires more labours and resource materials.

 

[undy]

I was not even aware they went hybrid! That’s pretty cool! I wonder if they were designed from the ground up to accept the hybrid systems? Wonder how truly different their V8s are compared to the truck V8s?

The ZR1X put down an 8.6 quarter mile time at 159 mph, bone stock from the factory. 0 to 60 was 1.6 seconds. 1250 hp total with 1064 hp from the "puny" little 5.5 liter engine.

 

[Marky Dissod]

1250 hp total, with 1064 hp from the "puny" little 5.5 liter engine.

Atmospheric, or twin-turbocharged?

 

[undy]

Atmospheric, or twin-turbocharged?

Turbocharged with the LARGEST turbos on ANY production engine, bar none!

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

Ten year old Prius' need new battery packs and are basically worthless until they get new ones. At least that is what happened to 3 people I know who used to have them. This was 5-6 years ago.

10 year old CT200h(3rd Gen Prius powerplant) with 150k miles and zero issues regarding the battery pack. And replacements are actually inexpensive.

 

[Meathead16]

Typo and not a complete thought: Most hybrids are not coupled with V8s because the V8 are old designs and when modernizing the drivetrains the manufactures are downsizing in displacement and cylinders. Look at Ford Ecoboost engines. Went from the Triton V8s to the V6s then coupled with hybrids a few yrs back.
Same with Toyota and the Tundra. No more iForce V8 and in with the twin turbo V6 + hybrid. There is design that has to go in to ensure the engine and motors work together in harmony. Maybe there is something that V8s don’t pair well with hybrid setups. I’m not an engineer.

Hope that adds clarity.

I think I get what you're saying and theoretically it could make sense but I don't think (I'm no engineer either) there's real world applicability here. V8's probably aren't in hybrids because the cost/benefit analysis doesn't hold up.

While it's rapidly changing now, hybrid powertrains were expensive in varients that were powerful enough to move a car. Making it that much more powerful to move a truck, while possible, just adds more cost and more weight, further diminishing any mpg savings. The GMT900 hybrids for example could go a whole 2 miles on its battery before it was depleted.. TWO. Mpg for those models only increased by 3 or 4mpg. Making a vehicle more complex, adding weight, cost to build, cost to maintain, and heaven forbid your battery pack dies.. all for 3-4 mpg and 2 gas-free miles per "charge"? That's a hard sell to make to consumers..

V8's have a larger idle/baseline consumption vs V6's, I4's, etc. In the most basic sense they are the largest, generally most powerful (notwithstanding turbos, SCs, etc.) engines. Anything used to supplement that power would need to be 'on its level' output wise, which is going to cost a lot, be heavy, and probably negate any savings over the life of the vehicle.

To your point, I think hybrids and V8's don't play well together not because of their underlying technologies, but because of the mismatch in power output.

Put another way, it's a blizzard outside and you have to shovel your entire driveway. Your kid comes outside with his mini shovel and wants to help. While it may make you proud and warm your heart, you still know that after a few mini shovels full of snow he's gonna get too cold and go back inside and ultimately, while those few mini shovels reduced the work you would have had to do, you still basically had to shovel it all yourself.

 

[swathdiver]

10 year old CT200h(3rd Gen Prius powerplant) with 150k miles and zero issues regarding the battery pack. And replacements are actually inexpensive.

For those 3 people it was less expensive to get a new car and keep the payments rolling. They probably did not want or have to shell out more money for a major repair. Back then they were telling me the new battery pack was $5,000 in Florida as I remember to $7,000 for my sister-in-law in New York City. This was before Covid as I recall and do not remember the ages of the cars.

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

For those 3 people it was less expensive to get a new car and keep the payments rolling. They probably did not want or have to shell out more money for a major repair. Back then they were telling me the new battery pack was $5,000 in Florida as I remember to $7,000 for my sister-in-law in New York City. This was before Covid as I recall and do not remember the ages of the cars.

Ya I think a new battery(higher density too I think) is around $2k. The added labor is probably where that $5-7k comes in as the total. I’m a DIY’er so it’s a good vehicle for me to keep.

 

[strutaeng]

I'm glad to see GM is still keeping the V8s around....there's a good reason.

Can you get small displacement engines with turbos and make good power? Absolutely.

But the problem comes on the heavy duty, gas truck segment. Small displacement turbo gas engines do not withstand the daily abuses of the guys towing heavy like construction or landscaping trailer, etc.

That's why Ford only uses the Ecoboost on cars, SUVs and the F150s, but uses a cam-in-block pushrod "ancient" V8 design on their Godzilla F-250/350/450/550 segment. (IDK what GM is planning with their V8s, so I may be completely wrong here...)

To their advantage, they can still offer smaller V8s on their light duty trucks as an option. I think the fact that you can get so many different engine options on the newer light duty trucks these days (small turbos, mid turbos, mid V6, V8s, diesels or gas, or at least some of these, depending on manufacturer) is simply AWESOME TBH.

OTOH, trucks like the Tundra i feel like you HAVE to love what engine they put into it, because you don't have an option. They don't sell HD trucks, so that's why they dropped their V8s.

 

[blanchard7684]

Toyota HAD to make a change. The 5.7 had durability and reliability that was almost hard to exaggerate.

But even with that the fuel economy was internet meme material.

When you are 8-10 mpg lower than your competitors, that will leave a mark.

I know.. I have a 2019 tundra and it gets 8 mpg less than my suburban ( in L9 with dfm off and a.s.s off) and the suburban weighs 200 lbs more.

Some mornings in winter months my short drive cycle mpg shows 7 mpg. lol wtf.

 

[Marky Dissod]

But the problem comes on the heavy duty, gas truck segment.
Small displacement turbo gas engines do not withstand the daily abuses of the guys towing heavy like construction or landscaping trailer, etc.

It would SEEM that the 6.6L DuraMax's single turbo, fares much better in terms of durability vs smaller turbos in petrol engines - even if there are two smaller ones.

 

[RST Dana]

10 year old CT200h(3rd Gen Prius powerplant) with 150k miles and zero issues regarding the battery pack. And replacements are actually inexpensive.

3 d cells

 

[Bigburb3500]

I'm glad to see GM is still keeping the V8s around....there's a good reason.

Can you get small displacement engines with turbos and make good power? Absolutely.

But the problem comes on the heavy duty, gas truck segment. Small displacement turbo gas engines do not withstand the daily abuses of the guys towing heavy like construction or landscaping trailer, etc.

That's why Ford only uses the Ecoboost on cars, SUVs and the F150s, but uses a cam-in-block pushrod "ancient" V8 design on their Godzilla F-250/350/450/550 segment. (IDK what GM is planning with their V8s, so I may be completely wrong here...)

To their advantage, they can still offer smaller V8s on their light duty trucks as an option. I think the fact that you can get so many different engine options on the newer light duty trucks these days (small turbos, mid turbos, mid V6, V8s, diesels or gas, or at least some of these, depending on manufacturer) is simply AWESOME TBH.

OTOH, trucks like the Tundra i feel like you HAVE to love what engine they put into it, because you don't have an option. They don't sell HD trucks, so that's why they dropped their V8s.

HD trucks are in another league these days. If you look back to the early 2000s the legendary Ford 7.3 Powerstroke in a F:350 dually, it had a max towing capacity with a 5th wheel (per publications and what not - not what people ACTUALLY did) was 15-16klbs. Bumper pull max was “only” 10-12k. You can get 1/2 ton trucks that pull that much. It makes sense the new generation HD engines have to be built a bit differently.

I still wonder what a HD hybrid would look like when new technology is used.

 

[Bigburb3500]

I think I get what you're saying and theoretically it could make sense but I don't think (I'm no engineer either) there's real world applicability here. V8's probably aren't in hybrids because the cost/benefit analysis doesn't hold up.

While it's rapidly changing now, hybrid powertrains were expensive in varients that were powerful enough to move a car. Making it that much more powerful to move a truck, while possible, just adds more cost and more weight, further diminishing any mpg savings. The GMT900 hybrids for example could go a whole 2 miles on its battery before it was depleted.. TWO. Mpg for those models only increased by 3 or 4mpg. Making a vehicle more complex, adding weight, cost to build, cost to maintain, and heaven forbid your battery pack dies.. all for 3-4 mpg and 2 gas-free miles per "charge"? That's a hard sell to make to consumers..

V8's have a larger idle/baseline consumption vs V6's, I4's, etc. In the most basic sense they are the largest, generally most powerful (notwithstanding turbos, SCs, etc.) engines. Anything used to supplement that power would need to be 'on its level' output wise, which is going to cost a lot, be heavy, and probably negate any savings over the life of the vehicle.

To your point, I think hybrids and V8's don't play well together not because of their underlying technologies, but because of the mismatch in power output.

Put another way, it's a blizzard outside and you have to shovel your entire driveway. Your kid comes outside with his mini shovel and wants to help. While it may make you proud and warm your heart, you still know that after a few mini shovels full of snow he's gonna get too cold and go back inside and ultimately, while those few mini shovels reduced the work you would have had to do, you still basically had to shovel it all yourself.

I understand what you’re saying but with modern batteries and motors (mainly advancements in motor tech) I believe there should be good options to add hybrid tech to big SUVs that make them more efficient without sacrificing much.

**By no means is this an environmental discussion. I would just love to see 18-25MPG in these big trucks.

 

[Marky Dissod]

I believe there should be good options to add hybrid tech to big SUVs that make them more efficient without sacrificing much.

I think there ought to be good options to add HYDRAULIC hybrid tech to big suvs & pickup trucks,
that would contribute to even MORE efficiency than electrical hybrid tech for larger size vehicles, and would be less environmentally toxic ...

 

[Bigburb3500]

I think there ought to be good options to add HYDRAULIC hybrid tech to big suvs & pickup trucks,
that would contribute to even MORE efficiency than electrical hybrid tech for larger size vehicles, and would be less environmentally toxic ...

Not gonna lie… definitely had to do Google educate myself on the systems. That’s interesting! Wonder why big vehicle (garbage trucks/busses/etc) do not already use systems like this considering they already have the high pressure lines and hydraulic system installed in them?