Rear axel swap

[Symba_The_Lyon]

Hello there i am want to change out my 10 bolt rear end for a 14 bolt because i need more weight in the back So my question is what is the newest year 14 bolt will fit a 96? Thank You!

 

[SunlitComet]

You are gonna have to change springs as well as you can't just change the axle and be done with it. I would have to go back and see the tensile strength of the frame to see if it will suffice as well. How much weight we talking and where and in what form?

 

[Donnie Yukonie]

What do you mean you need more weight in the back?

Most people swap to a 14 bolt for strength reasons . the 10 bolt is a weak axle compared to the 14 bolt .

Im actually undergoing the swap to mine as we speak after blowing my 10 bolt a few weeks ago . From what Ive learned is even a "built" 10 bolt doesn't come close to a stock 14 bolt The reasons are pretty clear . 10 bolts Ring gear is a small 8.50 or 8.25 (can't remember) while depending on which 14 bolt you get is either a 9.5 (Semi Float) or its big and popular cousin the massive 10.5 (full float)

there is Technically 3 types of 14 bolts
comparing them these are the pros and cons to them

14 bolt Semi Floating Six lug axle -
PROS
-much stronger than a 10 bolt
- Retains 6 Lug stock pattern ( you can get away with using stock rims)
- Lightest of all the 14 bolts
-Higher ground clearance
- Direct Swap into OBS trucks NO modifications required to swap (other than Gears if required) EXCEPT C&C or 454 SS Axle

CONS
-"weakest" of the 14 bolt axle family
-Not as much Aftermarket support for lockers unlike the FF
- C-clip axle

14 Bolt Semi Floating axle 8 Lug and I believe 5 lug??(Uncommon)
Pretty much the same as the 6 lug just in 8 or 5 lug form

14 bolt Full Floater 8 Lug (only)
Pros
-massive 10.5 inch ring gear
-stock is pretty much indestructible
-No C-clips
- More aftermarket support for Lockers
Cons
-Requires Minor mods to swap
-Requires bigger rims for the 13 inch Drums and Wheel Hubs sticking out
- Weighs Close to 500 pounds
- The Diff is so big it reduces ground clearance (shave kits are available )

This is just the basics and the axles do change in the newer Years my Yukon is a 98 and I just picked up a 14 bolt SF 6 lug from a 6.5 TD heavy half ton truck . I got lucky the axle is the same width as my old 10 bolt.

Note the 2wd Truck axles and C&C models do differ in width 1-2 inches

 

[SunlitComet]

Unless he meant he needs the axle to weigh more itself. Snow traction maybe?

 

[Donnie Yukonie]

Unless he meant he needs the axle to weigh more itself. Snow traction maybe?

Maybe , If thats the issue I would just Put some sand bags in the cargo area

 

[Nak]

I've got the 14 bolt SF rear end; as close to a bolt in swap as you're going to find. Yes, it adds a lot of weight in the back. If that is your only issue though, just add sand in the back. If you want the additional strength then it's pretty damn cheap bang for the buck. If you're going to tow a lot or go with a much more powerful engine, then it's a no brainer to do this swap. I'm not sure I understand the comment on locker options being limited. You can get a detroit locker or a Eaton TruTrac. No real need for anything other than one of those... In fact, the main weakness of the 14 bolt SF is a weak gear carrier; either Eaton mentioned will fix that weakness nicely.

The 14 bolt FF rear end is a much more complicated and expensive swap. If you need it for strength with a built motor that's one thing. If you need towing capacity then consider a different rig.

 

[Symba_The_Lyon]

I mean more weight of the axle it's self because i don't get enough traction in the snow/dry roads because when i go over a bump it want to stay in the air sense it is so light, And i did have a 200 pond rock in the back of it when it was not lifted and it worked like a charm but now it is lifted when i do over a bump the rear of the cab is bouncing up and down because of the weight of the rock ,and i want to swap it just for better traction and it much beefier hehe, Now what Chevy trucks have this 14 bolt Semi Floating Six lug axle ?

 

[Kon99]

Sorry to butt in guys, but I have a 2WD with a 10 bolt and was thinking about a rear end swap to something, but had no idea they made 5 lug 14 bolts. How uncommon are these axels and how cloesly are they to the 2WD because I assume they only came on 4WD trucks. Another good question is where in the hell will I find one of them if they do exist?

 

[SunlitComet]

how about better suited tires or snow chains as needed?

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------

or strap bolt some densely filled small diameter pipes to the axle?

 

[mattluttrell]

You might be able to find a Dana 60 or 70 that suits your purposes too. Measure the width of your axle and start checking the axle bibles on sites like Pirate4x4. These axle swaps are extremely common in the offroading community. You can probably find a good heavy axle for $200 or so.

 

[Donnie Yukonie]

I doubt you will find a Dana 60 for $200 dollars. cheapest I found them ran $460 and that was for a Junkyard one . 14 bolts Go for the $200 dollar range another thing that sucks about Chrysler axles like the 60 and 70 is parts for them are Way to overpriced because the Jeep guys demand them . Also most GM guys choose the 14 bolt over the 60 or 70 for mod reasons. You might have to get a custom Driveshaft made , Spring perches relocated , brake cable and lines swapped Ect... this all adds up and in the end a 14 bolt is just as strong FF of course

@NAK My comment about the 14 bolt SF not having as much after market support is when it is compared to its FF cousin. The market supports the FF more for selectable lockers , diff covers and chromoly parts ect... Actually only in the recent years have Disk brake kits been available for the SF axle more so than the SF for the simple reason that Most guys that do build a Beast off road machine will chose the FF just for strength and reliability reasons . the pinion support and Non C-Clip design makes it a lot more dependable and easy to repair on the trail Apparently the FF can handle about 6,000 pounds of Torque at the Pinion because of the guard . this reduces the amount of deflection in which we know causes most grenades other than the Common G80 issue.

@Kon99 - The 5 lug Version of the 14 bolt came equipped to the 454 SS truck in the late 90s at least thats the only vehicle Im aware that came with one . I can't confirm this for sure but apparently there are Kits to swap a 8 lug to 5 lug How much it costs and the labor it takes Im unsure

@ symba
Depending on which route you decide to choose ,
any 14 FF will swap over from the 90s Just keep in mind this will require some minor modifications .
the Semifloat is a easier swap and only requires a conversion U-joint Neapco #1340 I think the part is (ill confirm this later) Other than that as long as you got it out of a heavy half ton (2500 with either the 6.5TD or 7.3 Gas) 4wd the swap is just bolts . the existing brake cable is the same size ect... the only models you have to watch for is the C&C (cab and chassis) and Van models . I believe the Van models are 2 inches wider

 

[mattluttrell]

Naw, I only mentioned the Dana 60-80 because they are $200-$300 all the time here on CL.

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/4386792931.html

Your other points are valid. I think we can all agree that if you're going to be swapping axles you should probably learn to weld sway bar mounts, shock tabs, etc.

Additionally, these generally get out of hand real quick with regards to price if you start building. I'm on of those jeep guys mentioned above.

The 14 bolt really is the best bang for your buck if you don't care about clearance issues.

 

[Symba_The_Lyon]

So do any one know what year of chevy trucks have the 14 bolt Semi Floating Six lug axle ? I know that 1993 GM offered a light-duty 3/4-ton truck that came with a 14 bolt but is there any newer years that would fit with very little mods?

 

[aj713]

I'm interested in the 6 lug version too, now that I'm thinking of keeping my 95 2 door lt version.


Sent by carrier pigeon

 

[Nak]

The 14 bolt SF 6 lug is extremely common on 1/2 ton suburbans. Look for the RPO JB6. I just finished this swap a bit ago...

Avoid the factory posi. I looked at 6 rear ends with the G80 posi, every one was bad. Several wrecking yard guys told me they'd never seen a good used G80.

The main weakness of the 14 bolt SF is the gear carrier. An Eaton Trutrac will fix that, but is spendy. Outstanding posi though, and cheaper in the long run because of no clutches to wear.

The SF has better ground clearance than the FF, the FF is stronger. The SF is MUCH stronger than the 10 bolt, and much heavier too.

You'll need the U bolt backing plates from the donor vehicle, the plates that go on top of the springs. Your current U bolts will work fine.

If you have a 4WD, you MUST get a rear end from a 4WD. The 2WD version is narrower. The 4WD is 67" wheel mating surface to wheel mating surface.

If you have an OBS, any OBS will work as a donor.

The brake lines and parking brake cables will hook right up.

You'll need a conversion U-joint. Your current drive shaft will work just fine.

Get the brake proportioning valve from the donor vehicle. It'll need to have the same ABS setup as yours for it to work. If the ABS is different, find a Brake proportioning valve from a JB6 vehicle with the same ABS as yours. And yes, the proportioning valve can be removed from the 95-99 ABS units. They look to be integral, but they bolt on. If you don't swap the P-valve, more properly called the combination valve, your brakes will be dangerously out of balance.

If you have the '95 - '99 4 wheel ABS, the P-valve is still available new. If you have a '92-'94, then used is your only option.

The 11" brakes on the 14 Bolt SF are a HUGE upgrade over the 10" drums on the 10 bolt. Not just size either. The 11" brakes are duo servo type, the 10" are leading-trailing type. IMHO, the best brake upgrade you can make if you have 10" rears. My brakes went from crappy to outstanding.

If this is really just for the weight, it's easier & cheaper to bolt 100 pounds of lead into the cargo area. Or go with a custom rear bumper. A good posi will make more difference than the weight.

 

[Donnie Yukonie]

Naw, I only mentioned the Dana 60-80 because they are $200-$300 all the time here on CL.

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/4386792931.html

Your other points are valid. I think we can all agree that if you're going to be swapping axles you should probably learn to weld sway bar mounts, shock tabs, etc.

Additionally, these generally get out of hand real quick with regards to price if you start building. I'm on of those jeep guys mentioned above.

The 14 bolt really is the best bang for your buck if you don't care about clearance issues.

Wow If your finding them that cheap you need to start a business , I know location matters but the CHEAPEST I seen a Front D60 go for is almost double that in the same condition

Get the brake proportioning valve from the donor vehicle. It'll need to have the same ABS setup as yours for it to work. If the ABS is different, find a Brake proportioning valve from a JB6 vehicle with the same ABS as yours. And yes, the proportioning valve can be removed from the 95-99 ABS units. They look to be integral, but they bolt on. If you don't swap the P-valve, more properly called the combination valve, your brakes will be dangerously out of balance.

If you have the '95 - '99 4 wheel ABS, the P-valve is still available new. If you have a '92-'94, then used is your only option.

Hmm In all the information Ive ever read concerning the Swap Never have I heard about swapping the P-Valve? Is this a concern If I have my ABS unplugged anyway?

 

[inthechateau]

You can get a 14 bolt 6 lug out of any Z71 silverado or Sierra. But it will be the light duty 14 bolt version.

 

[Nak]

Hmm In all the information Ive ever read concerning the Swap Never have I heard about swapping the P-Valve? Is this a concern If I have my ABS unplugged anyway?

If you've switched from the 10" rear drums to the 11" rear drums it's incredibly important. Even more so if you've disconnected the ABS. Most of our trucks came with JB5 brakes. That includes the rear 10" drums. The switch to JB6 brakes changes two components, the rear drums and the combination valve. The duo servo 11" drums are considerably more powerful than the 10" leading-trailing drums. If you don't change the C-valve, your brakes will be biased dangerously to the rear. Especially without ABS. ABS can hide the problem in many circumstances... The danger is that your rear wheels will lock up before your fronts. When that happens, your rig will want to swap ends and end up in a spin. ABS hides this by preventing rear wheel lock up, but it's a band aid fix to the problem. The proper fix is exactly what the factory did: change the C-valve to one with less rear bias.

People don't see this problem when they improve their front brakes. If the front brakes lock up first, the vehicle remains stable. Improve your rears too much and you create a very dangerous instability, unless you take action to re-balance the system. Balancing brakes is beyond 99.9% of us, so the proper solution is to use the factory specified hydraulic components. In the case of JB6 brakes, we're lucky that the only change is the C-valve.

If you swap other components like swapping to a different type master cylinder or rear disc brakes, you'd better be able to balance the system, or mimic a factory configuration.

 

[Donnie Yukonie]

Cant you just Adjust the rear drums "loosely" to compensate for the extra Brake pressure? Im not calling you out I just don't see how the rear would be able to overpower the front unless you messed with the pressure system in some way . Ill definitely look into this and thank you for your information

 

[mattluttrell]

This is a real risk. I've converted a rear drum axle to discs. It can male it hairy. Brakes are often over looked and under valued, yet brakes can make a huge difference in most accidents.