I undertook a GMT800 project...

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iamdub

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One of Jenn's patients has been getting screwed on vehicle deals for at least the past year, ever since he's been able to walk and drive again. He bought an '05 Suburban Z71 with 260,000+ miles with a list of concerns, primarily a ticking/tapping, so Jenn passed him my number. He brought it to the shop this morning so I could assess it.

I found:

1) 11 DTCs ranging from EVAP codes to rich banks 1 and 2, catalyst inefficiency, knock sensor circuit, fuel composition sensor, and others

2) Ticking/tapping that is intermittent in occurrence and severity

3) Worn suspension

4) All rotors are moderately grooved

5) Gas cap is a Stant that screws into the neck a little and tightens until it clicks, but is nowhere near sealing

6) 4WD system is inoperable

7) Intermittent rough shifts

8) Coolant "mustard" on the VLOM under the throttle body

9) Stripped screws in the air filter box and a 1/2" gap on the fender side, so the top of the filter and MAF screen had chunks of debris on them

10) Both rearmost exhaust manifold bolts broken

11) Sunroof stuck open and PO affixed a sheet of stainless over it with silicone and self-tapping screws

12) Subwoofers hum along with engine RPM, I thought he had a 40-series Blowmaster at first

13) Mild miss, feels like a single cylinder

14) Right rear corner of hood raised

15) Power steering fluid leak

16) Owner says it feels noticeably weak and sluggish when warm
________________________________________________________________________________________

1) Some DTCs will likely be resolved with later findings

2) Ruled out ticking/tapping as being internal, appears to be exhaust leak

3) Suspension isn't a priority at this time

4) Brakes are still 'ok'

5) If correct gas cap can't be found, will have to replace filler neck/cap assembly as I believe they changed the design and the older style cap is rare or unavailable

6) Found one reason for dead 4WD system, details later

7) Cleaned MAF, owner reports shifts and response being much improved during drive home

8) Tightened loose hose clamps on coolant tubes under throttle body

9) Modified some coarse thread screws that made new threads in the remaining plastic so lid could be tightened to fully seal filter

10) Likely cause for ominous ticking/tapping, will get Dorman clamps

11) Found sunroof just needed to be re-initialized by holding the forward switch for about 30 seconds. PO probably had the battery disconnected for a long time in trying to clear DTCs and the sunroof controller lost it's memory. Sheet metal and all silicone will have to be removed and holes filled- not a priority at this time

12) Problem (strangely enough) appears to fault with amp

13) One of the DTCs was a Cyl. 4 misfire. Confirmed good spark and injector firing. May need new plugs and wires, couldn't pull plug to inspect since engine was hot at the time

14) Hood had been replaced and some hinge bolts were missing- found suitable bolts for replacement

15) Everything was wet with oil but main leaks appeared to be at hydraboost unit and on pressure lines from power steering pump

16) Had knock sensor circuit DTC(s). Faulty sensor(s) and/or harness coupled with dirty MAF and 90+ degree ambient temps suspected cause for retarded timing.


About that 4WD stuff- When inspecting the left rear O2 sensor, I found it's harness had been rubbing on the rear U-joint for the front prop shaft. The copper for the O2 sensor and fuel composition sensor wires were exposed:

IMG_3296.JPG



I cut, stripped, soldered and heat-shrinked the wires and secured in a safe place. There's a harness and plug hanging nearby that I couldn't find a termination for:

IMG_3295.JPG


Anyone know where it goes? I have a feeling what I found next might answer this. There's a box that appears to be a controller/actuator assembly on the transfer case with bare copper sticking out of the top as if a plug connector or wire harness was ripped out of it:

IMG_3294.JPG


Any chance that there was a harness coming out of that upper left side with the male end for that aforementioned rogue harness?
 

HiHoeSilver

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One of Jenn's patients has been getting screwed on vehicle deals for at least the past year, ever since he's been able to walk and drive again. He bought an '05 Suburban Z71 with 260,000+ miles with a list of concerns, primarily a ticking/tapping, so Jenn passed him my number. He brought it to the shop this morning so I could assess it.

I found:

1) 11 DTCs ranging from EVAP codes to rich banks 1 and 2, catalyst inefficiency, knock sensor circuit, fuel composition sensor, and others

2) Ticking/tapping that is intermittent in occurrence and severity

3) Worn suspension

4) All rotors are moderately grooved

5) Gas cap is a Stant that screws into the neck a little and tightens until it clicks, but is nowhere near sealing

6) 4WD system is inoperable

7) Intermittent rough shifts

8) Coolant "mustard" on the VLOM under the throttle body

9) Stripped screws in the air filter box and a 1/2" gap on the fender side, so the top of the filter and MAF screen had chunks of debris on them

10) Both rearmost exhaust manifold bolts broken

11) Sunroof stuck open and PO affixed a sheet of stainless over it with silicone and self-tapping screws

12) Subwoofers hum along with engine RPM, I thought he had a 40-series Blowmaster at first

13) Mild miss, feels like a single cylinder

14) Right rear corner of hood raised

15) Power steering fluid leak

16) Owner says it feels noticeably weak and sluggish when warm
________________________________________________________________________________________

1) Some DTCs will likely be resolved with later findings

2) Ruled out ticking/tapping as being internal, appears to be exhaust leak

3) Suspension isn't a priority at this time

4) Brakes are still 'ok'

5) If correct gas cap can't be found, will have to replace filler neck/cap assembly as I believe they changed the design and the older style cap is rare or unavailable

6) Found one reason for dead 4WD system, details later

7) Cleaned MAF, owner reports shifts and response being much improved during drive home

8) Tightened loose hose clamps on coolant tubes under throttle body

9) Modified some coarse thread screws that made new threads in the remaining plastic so lid could be tightened to fully seal filter

10) Likely cause for ominous ticking/tapping, will get Dorman clamps

11) Found sunroof just needed to be re-initialized by holding the forward switch for about 30 seconds. PO probably had the battery disconnected for a long time in trying to clear DTCs and the sunroof controller lost it's memory. Sheet metal and all silicone will have to be removed and holes filled- not a priority at this time

12) Problem (strangely enough) appears to fault with amp

13) One of the DTCs was a Cyl. 4 misfire. Confirmed good spark and injector firing. May need new plugs and wires, couldn't pull plug to inspect since engine was hot at the time

14) Hood had been replaced and some hinge bolts were missing- found suitable bolts for replacement

15) Everything was wet with oil but main leaks appeared to be at hydraboost unit and on pressure lines from power steering pump

16) Had knock sensor circuit DTC(s). Faulty sensor(s) and/or harness coupled with dirty MAF and 90+ degree ambient temps suspected cause for retarded timing.


About that 4WD stuff- When inspecting the left rear O2 sensor, I found it's harness had been rubbing on the rear U-joint for the front prop shaft. The copper for the O2 sensor and fuel composition sensor wires were exposed:

View attachment 224155


I cut, stripped, soldered and heat-shrinked the wires and secured in a safe place. There's a harness and plug hanging nearby that I couldn't find a termination for:

View attachment 224156

Anyone know where it goes? I have a feeling what I found next might answer this. There's a box that appears to be a controller/actuator assembly on the transfer case with bare copper sticking out of the top as if a plug connector or wire harness was ripped out of it:

View attachment 224157

Any chance that there was a harness coming out of that upper left side with the male end for that aforementioned rogue harness?

Wow. Quite the list. Nice work helping somebody out. I don't have a whole lot to add, but @Doubeleive is right about the encoder, for sure.
 

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Lots to address and prioritize; kudos for helping the person out.

As @Doubeleive indicated, the rectangular connector (female) is the body side of the transfer case encoder motor harness. I've never seen the male pigtails anywhere but can't honestly say that I've looked. I posted the wire colors and pinouts from an AC Delco encoder motor in another thread sometime last week, if that would be helpful. None of the Upulls around me ever have the encoder motors since the engines, trannies, and transfer cases have always "left the building."
 
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iamdub

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needs a new encoder motor or the harness if you can find that separate, gas cap redesign may have just been for the little tab part that keeps it secured to the filler tube so you don't leave it sitting at the gas station pump, if that is the case easy fix

View attachment 224159

That's what I needed to see! So, it's called an "encoder motor". Seems easy enough. Would this be a safe part to get from the salvage yard? We're working with an extremely limited budget and he enjoys searching the 'yards for things.

I recall a recent thread about GM changing the gas cap design and someone just could not get a cap that fit even though all part numbers showed correct for his vehicle. Or am I not recalling correctly? If it comes down to it, I'll pull a filler neck from an Explorer or Expedition since it and it's cap have current and standing part numbers. I learned from past projects how similar they are to GM's parts. I ain't playing GM's game with them discontinuing parts forcing you to change entire assemblies. "Ford" parts FTW.


Wow. Quite the list. Nice work helping somebody out. I don't have a whole lot to add, but @Doubeleive is right about the encoder, for sure.

Thank you. That's not even the complete run-down, but where we're starting for this go around. Overall, it's a bunch of relatively small items, a lot of which are to be expected of such a vehicle with such mileage. The engine seemed pretty solid and didn't appear to have any serious leaks. We both were quite happy with each finding as they seemed to disprove the possibility of a worse problem, such as finding the ticking he was most concerned with was simply the common broken manifold bolt issue.

He's a really good dude- wounded vet, ex-mailman, had a stroke and has been attending physical therapy for some time now. He does a lot of volunteer transportation duties since that's about the most he can do- a lot of carting single moms and kids to and from the store and or doctor appointments, transporting other physical therapy patients to the clinic, etc. He Ubers and Lyfts for additional income. So, he really depends on his ride and, apparently, I'm the only one he knows that can offer some sort of help in this matter.

I appreciate y'all's help!
 
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iamdub

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Lots to address and prioritize; kudos for helping the person out.

As @Doubeleive indicated, the rectangular connector (female) is the body side of the transfer case encoder motor harness. I've never seen the male pigtails anywhere but can't honestly say that I've looked. I posted the wire colors and pinouts from an AC Delco encoder motor in another thread sometime last week, if that would be helpful. None of the Upulls around me ever have the encoder motors since the engines, trannies, and transfer cases have always "left the building."


Thank you.

After seeing Wes's post, I was reminded that I found a wire wrapped around the slip yoke of the prop shaft. It must've been a remnant of the harness to that encoder motor. It's probably hard-wired into the part and is a pigtail to connect to the vehicle harness.
 

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I don't think the encoder motor would/should cost you much at a yard. You can get the internal encoder ring and rebuild that part yourself if it's defective, but the motor itself would have to be good. I see rebuilt ones online for $110 to around $300, so they're not cheap. Dorman is the only place I know that you can get a new one.
 

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Thank you.

After seeing Wes's post, I was reminded that I found a wire wrapped around the slip yoke of the prop shaft. It must've been a remnant of the harness to that encoder motor. It's probably hard-wired into the part and is a pigtail to connect to the vehicle harness.

That was probably the pigtail from the encoder motor. Any chance the connector is good, or even there? If so, maybe I could look at one here to see what the internal connections are.

The connectors have a body attachment above the front propshaft and slightly to the left of the tcase; someone probably didn't re-attach it and it got caught in the propshaft, which is always turning (except when stopped and in tcase neutral, I think).
 

Doubeleive

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That's what I needed to see! So, it's called an "encoder motor". Seems easy enough. Would this be a safe part to get from the salvage yard? We're working with an extremely limited budget and he enjoys searching the 'yards for things.

I recall a recent thread about GM changing the gas cap design and someone just could not get a cap that fit even though all part numbers showed correct for his vehicle. Or am I not recalling correctly? If it comes down to it, I'll pull a filler neck from an Explorer or Expedition since it and it's cap have current and standing part numbers. I learned from past projects how similar they are to GM's parts. I ain't playing GM's game with them discontinuing parts forcing you to change entire assemblies. "Ford" parts FTW.




Thank you. That's not even the complete run-down, but where we're starting for this go around. Overall, it's a bunch of relatively small items, a lot of which are to be expected of such a vehicle with such mileage. The engine seemed pretty solid and didn't appear to have any serious leaks. We both were quite happy with each finding as they seemed to disprove the possibility of a worse problem, such as finding the ticking he was most concerned with was simply the common broken manifold bolt issue.

He's a really good dude- wounded vet, ex-mailman, had a stroke and has been attending physical therapy for some time now. He does a lot of volunteer transportation duties since that's about the most he can do- a lot of carting single moms and kids to and from the store and or doctor appointments, transporting other physical therapy patients to the clinic, etc. He Ubers and Lyfts for additional income. So, he really depends on his ride and, apparently, I'm the only one he knows that can offer some sort of help in this matter.

I appreciate y'all's help!
ya you could get lucky with one at the scrap yard, a new oem one runs about $180
 

treehan77

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The gas cap thread was me lol. Ended up returning the new one, I was able to just replace my stock seal on it cause I did t want to replace that whole assembly just so the stupid hanger plug thing would fit.
 
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iamdub

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The gas cap thread was me lol. Ended up returning the new one, I was able to just replace my stock seal on it cause I did t want to replace that whole assembly just so the stupid hanger plug thing would fit.

I thought it was a change in the threads and the new caps wouldn't thread into the filler neck due to the design change. If it's just the tether, that's the least of my concerns. I have thin stainless cable and aluminum beads to make a quick and permanent solution for that! So, you found direct-replacement caps? Have a part number handy?
 
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iamdub

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That was probably the pigtail from the encoder motor. Any chance the connector is good, or even there? If so, maybe I could look at one here to see what the internal connections are.

The connectors have a body attachment above the front propshaft and slightly to the left of the tcase; someone probably didn't re-attach it and it got caught in the propshaft, which is always turning (except when stopped and in tcase neutral, I think).

So, there's a short double-ended harness that one end plugs into a socket on the encoder and the other end plugs into that vehicle/body harness?

I felt down inside where the wire was coming out of that top left corner of the encoder but couldn't tell what I was feeling for. I assumed that part was hard-wired with the pigtail coming out with the connector to the body harness. Someone's been in there before and that's exactly what happened- it wasn't properly routed or secured and the wire snagged the U-joint and was reeled in.
 

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So, there's a short double-ended harness that one end plugs into a socket on the encoder and the other end plugs into that vehicle/body harness?

I felt down inside where the wire was coming out of that top left corner of the encoder but couldn't tell what I was feeling for. I assumed that part was hard-wired with the pigtail coming out with the connector to the body harness. Someone's been in there before and that's exactly what happened- it wasn't properly routed or secured and the wire snagged the U-joint and was reeled in.

The encoder pigtail is hardwired through a rectangular rubber strain relief. I don't know how the connections are made inside the housing.

Added pic:

Untitled.jpg
 
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iamdub

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I don't think the encoder motor would/should cost you much at a yard. You can get the internal encoder ring and rebuild that part yourself if it's defective, but the motor itself would have to be good. I see rebuilt ones online for $110 to around $300, so they're not cheap. Dorman is the only place I know that you can get a new one.

I'm sure it worked before because he told me how he realized that, while driving it on the highway back from where he bought it, he had it in 4 HI. He said he put it back in 2WD and by the time he got home, it wouldn't go back into 4WD any more. No lights or anything. I'm thinking the PO had the O2 sensors replaced and they mis-routed the wires, and somewhere along the trip home is when the harness snagged the prop shaft.

If we find an encoder motor from the salvage yard, I'll compare the guts to make sure it looks as good or better than the original. A new one is definitely not in the budget. Really, 4WD isn't even needed and he's focusing his funds elsewhere. This is just one of the items I wasn't so sure about and wanted to be well-prepared for when we hit up the 'yard.
 
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iamdub

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Pull the encoder motor before going to the junk yard and look at the part that the motor turns (green square in the picture). It'll either be star-shaped or have two flat sides. The older ones have the flats; his is probably the star-shaped style.

View attachment 224165

...And thanks yet again!

That surely would've been my luck- unknowingly getting the wrong one.
 

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did you check the wheel hubs? i'm guessing those may be questionable based on the condition of said project.
 

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