Expedition vs Yukon

[firsttimetahoe]

450.00 a year….full coverage…

I’ve never even seen Liability only coverage for that price…

Hopefully you never need to file a claim but good luck going through a claim with that. Sounds like they’d be out of business with those prices

 

[Stbentoak]

I’ve never even seen Liability only coverage for that price…

Hopefully you never need to file a claim but good luck going through a claim with that. Sounds like they’d be out of business with those prices

My 21 Yukon is only 592.00 a year. 250/500/100 coverage + 500k uninsured motorist and Towing and loss of use rental. I'm old and a spotless record, + I have many other coverages with this company. They are one of the highest rated insurers in the Midwest.

 

[Polo08816]

I’ve never even seen Liability only coverage for that price…

Hopefully you never need to file a claim but good luck going through a claim with that. Sounds like they’d be out of business with those prices

My 21 Yukon is only 592.00 a year. 250/500/100 coverage + 500k uninsured motorist and Towing and loss of use rental. I'm old and a spotless record, + I have many other coverages with this company. They are one of the highest rated insurers in the Midwest.

That's calling winning.

He lives in an area where not everyone drives like a complete clown and wrecks their car on a regular basis... Or gets their car stolen on a regular basis.

I have full comprehensive insurance from USAA which tends to be more expensive than the other insurance companies for 3 vehicles and my annual premiums are $1800 combined. I've had two deer strikes in the last 3 years and I was always able to choose where to bring my cars. I've always selected dealers that have on-site collision repair centers and are track/motorsports sponsors with zero pushback from USAA.

 

[Polo08816]

Hard to predict in 2023, but we can take a look at 2021 and 2022 numbers.

For the Cadillac Escalade, these figures include both the standard and extended length wheel base for the entire calendar year. I haven't come across 2022 figures for GM yet.

2020 (pre update) - 24,500 units
2021 - 40,500 units

GM has never sold more than 43,000 units of the Escalade per year.


For the Grand Wagoneer, these figures only include standard length wheel base as the extended length wheel base models are a 2023 model.

2021 Q4 - 2,585 units
2022 Q1 - 3,169 units

The way I read these figures is that even just after starting production and deliveries and not yet offering an extended wheel base model, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the total 2022 production finish with at least 10,000 units, or 25% or more of Cadillac Escalade sales.

Also, the take rate of the long wheel base Grand Wagoneer will be remarkably high in the segment because there are only a few options since manufacturers really need a 1/2 ton pickup chassis to base an extended wheel base full size SUV off of.

I think by 2023, Stellantis will be selling a combination of at least 6,000 units of the short wheel base and long wheel base Grand Wagoneer combined per quarter or 24,000 units per year which is sizable.


Also, Toyota has been selling every single new Tundra they've been producing and it's a decent bit more expensive compared to the outgoing Tundra.


It really depends on whether you know what you're doing and how to repair/maintain your car. If you're like the average clueless car owner, then yes, your car will become a decaying pile of shit after 5 years. My track beater is a 2014 335i with 150,000 miles on the odometer with many of those miles being hard track miles. It feels as if it were new. In fact, if you drove it, you would never think there were that many miles on the car. But the cars that I care about are garaged. If your car sits outside or is parallel parked overnight in an urban area, yes, expect a 2 year old car to look like a worn down 10 year old piece of junk. You're paying the unofficial city tax right there.

There’s no way in their first full year the Grand Wagoneer will sell 24k units…if GM is selling just over 40k Escalades.

Also the new Tundra starts at $36k……



If you’re the average clueless car owner, you don’t have a car sitting in your garage or driveway that you don’t take anywhere because it’s on standby in case your regular ride breaks down…where you spend $1000+ a year to insure it.

Idk where the person who pays $400 a year for “full coverage” has his insurance with but I’ve never heard of that in my entire life lol. Hopefully he never has to file a claim but I guess…good luck with that if you ever do lol.

Like GM, Stellantis will sell almost every Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer they have built. In fact, when you consider the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer are completely new entries into this segment, it's pretty impressive. Once production ramps up and the long wheel base version is offered, you don't see Stellantis selling 6,000 units of the Grand Wagoneer per quarter in 2023? They are already selling over 3,000 units of the Grand Wagoneer per quarter in Q1 2022.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

That's calling winning.

He lives in an area where not everyone drives like a complete clown and wrecks their car on a regular basis... Or gets their car stolen on a regular basis.

I have a spotless record myself and been driving close to 3 decades. I also live in a great neighborhood with no theft. I donated an old car my in-laws had because liability only coverage was costing me almost $1000 a year. Made no sense to keep it since we never were going
To drive it and it needed a ton of work.

 

[Baja_Bob]

The Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer's off-road capabilities don't impress me, who's gonna take their $90,000+ luxury vehicle rock climbing? The escalade is available with 4 wheel drive but that doesn't mean I plan on taking it off-road.

 

[Polo08816]

I have a spotless record myself and been driving close to 3 decades. I also live in a great neighborhood with no theft. I donated an old car my in-laws had because liability only coverage was costing me almost $1000 a year. Made no sense to keep it since we never were going
To drive it and it needed a ton of work.

Your neighbor hood is great. But maybe there are some bad areas within 10-25 miles.

For $1000/year liability only, I doubt I'd hold onto the car. I'd probably make the same decision you did.

 

[Polo08816]

The Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer's off-road capabilities don't impress me, who's gonna take their $90,000+ luxury vehicle rock climbing? The escalade is available with 4 wheel drive but that doesn't mean I plan on taking it off-road.

The extended length Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer's towing capabilities are catching my eye.

I don't really care about the 10,000 figure because each manufacturer plays games with that figure and Jeep is often more optimistic/aggressive in their ratings compared to Ford/GM. Rear axle weight rating matters more.

But, a 3.92 rear end, high output turbo inline 6 Hurricane engine with ~500 hp, ~500 lbsft, and largest fuel tank of the segment at 30.5 gallons may make some gravitate towards it until Ford or GM come back with a 3/4 ton full size SUV. Of course I'd wait at least 2 years for Jeep to work out the issues.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

Once production ramps up and the long wheel base version is offered, you don't see Stellantis selling 6,000 units of the Grand Wagoneer per quarter in 2023?

No shot.

Why can I go to every local Jeep dealership by me and find these available on the lot for sale?

But I can’t find a single Escalade at any Cadilllac?

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

No shot.

Why can I go to every local Jeep dealership by me and find these available on the lot for sale?

But I can’t find a single Escalade at any Cadilllac?

3 Waggoneers on the lot at my local Jeep dealer, and they are advertising on the dealers web site at about $2k under MSRP…”market adjustment” I drove it, the Expedition, the Navigator, and a used HC Suburban…then ordered the Denali XL…just sayin! My XL Denali far exceeded my expectations and rides far better than any of the above.

 

[Polo08816]

Like GM, Stellantis will sell almost every Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer they have built. In fact, when you consider the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer are completely new entries into this segment, it's pretty impressive. Once production ramps up and the long wheel base version is offered, you don't see Stellantis selling 6,000 units of the Grand Wagoneer per quarter in 2023? They are already selling over 3,000 units of the Grand Wagoneer per quarter in Q1 2022.

No shot.

Why can I go to every local Jeep dealership by me and find these available on the lot for sale?

But I can’t find a single Escalade at any Cadilllac?

Perhaps because you're only shopping in your local market and your local market dealers are charging over MSRP?

I don't see any in inventory at Koons Vienna which is within 1.5 hours of me but they are the ones doing 6% under invoice. They even have a webpage on their site for you to submit your factory custom order.

I absolutely see Jeep selling 6,000 units per quarter with a combination of short and extended wheelbase models.

You could cross shop the domestic short wheel base SUVs against European and Japanese SUVs like the Q7, X5, X7, Lexus LX, but there are really no other options for extended length wheel base. That's why I believe the take rate a Wagoneer L and Grand Wagoneer L will be extremely high if GM and Ford can't ramp up production.

3 Waggoneers on the lot at my local Jeep dealer, and they are advertising on the dealers web site at about $2k under MSRP…”market adjustment” I drove it, the Expedition, the Navigator, and a used HC Suburban…then ordered the Denali XL…just sayin!

At the end of the day, it's about market selling price for the consumer and not MSRP. Also we're not sure what the absolute per unit cost to the manufacturer is.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

Perhaps because you're only shopping in your local market and your local market dealers are charging over MSRP?

I don't see any in inventory at Koons Vienna which is within 1.5 hours of me but they are the ones doing 6% under invoice. They even have a webpage on their site for you to submit your factory custom order.

I absolutely see Jeep selling 6,000 units per quarter with a combination of short and extended wheelbase models.

You could cross shop the domestic short wheel base SUVs against European and Japanese SUVs like the Q7, X5, X7, Lexus LX, but there are really no other options for extended length wheel base. That's why I believe the take rate a Wagoneer L and Grand Wagoneer L will be extremely high if GM and Ford can't ramp up production.



At the end of the day, it's about market selling price for the consumer and not MSRP. Also we're not sure what the absolute per unit cost to the manufacturer is.

I’m starting to think you’re a sales manager at the Koons Vienna Jeep dealership lol

Again…you’re cherry picking. look at national averages….

Dealers want to make money in an environment where inventory is next to nothing. Charging under invoice is not happening for 99.9% of todays buyers

With limited inventory due to a computer chip shortage, 82% of consumers are paying above sticker price for a new car

The average amount paid for a new car is $45,717, which is $728 more than the average manufacturer's suggested retail price of $44,989, new research shows.

www.cnbc.com

 

[firsttimetahoe]

3 Waggoneers on the lot at my local Jeep dealer, and they are advertising on the dealers web site at about $2k under MSRP…”market adjustment” I drove it, the Expedition, the Navigator, and a used HC Suburban…then ordered the Denali XL…just sayin! My XL Denali far exceeded my expectations and rides far better than any of the above.

Yeah. Because no one is going to a Jeep dealership and dropping 6 figures on an SUV lol

One of the big Jeep dealers near me has 32 Wagoneers and 16 grand Wagoneers on their inventory lol

 

[Baja_Bob]

3 Waggoneers on the lot at my local Jeep dealer, and they are advertising on the dealers web site at about $2k under MSRP…”market adjustment” I drove it, the Expedition, the Navigator, and a used HC Suburban…then ordered the Denali XL…just sayin! My XL Denali far exceeded my expectations and rides far better than any of the above.

I saw a Grand Wagoneer series 3 out front of a dealer for $111.000, it was gone 3 days later.

 

[Baja_Bob]

The same dealer I mentioned above has Grand Cherokees for $70.000 and 10 Rams in stock all the time.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

The same dealer I mentioned above has Grand Cherokees for $70.000 and 10 Rams in stock all the time.

I’m not saying zero people will buy them. They’ll sell a few. But in a normal market…no chance.

I’ve only seen 1 so far in person driving on the road.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

Your neighbor hood is great. But maybe there are some bad areas within 10-25 miles.

For $1000/year liability only, I doubt I'd hold onto the car. I'd probably make the same decision you did.

Can’t imagine my auto insurance premium is so high because of occasional theft in an area within
25 miles. National average is over $1500 a year for car insurance for a single car. Again…idk who your
Insurance companies are but I’ve never heard or rates that low in my entire adult life

 

[Polo08816]

3 Waggoneers on the lot at my local Jeep dealer, and they are advertising on the dealers web site at about $2k under MSRP…”market adjustment” I drove it, the Expedition, the Navigator, and a used HC Suburban…then ordered the Denali XL…just sayin! My XL Denali far exceeded my expectations and rides far better than any of the above.

I’m starting to think you’re a sales manager at the Koons Vienna Jeep dealership lol

Again…you’re cherry picking. look at national averages….

Dealers want to make money in an environment where inventory is next to nothing. Charging under invoice is not happening for 99.9% of todays buyers

With limited inventory due to a computer chip shortage, 82% of consumers are paying above sticker price for a new car

The average amount paid for a new car is $45,717, which is $728 more than the average manufacturer's suggested retail price of $44,989, new research shows.

www.cnbc.com

I prefer the GM full size SUVs over Ford and Stellantis at the moment. But I'm certainly not a GM fanboi that can't realize the market is changing. If GM is leaving sales on the table and isn't stepping up production, someone else is going to.

Yeah. Because no one is going to a Jeep dealership and dropping 6 figures on an SUV lol

One of the big Jeep dealers near me has 32 Wagoneers and 16 grand Wagoneers on their inventory lol

I saw a Grand Wagoneer series 3 out front of a dealer for $111.000, it was gone 3 days later.

Then there's something wrong with that particular Jeep dealer. Or maybe the NY metro area market is not representative of the rest of the US.

I’m not saying zero people will buy them. They’ll sell a few. But in a normal market…no chance.

I’ve only seen 1 so far in person driving on the road.

But in a normal market, we'd see thousands off MSRP for a GM product as well. Again, Stellantis and Ford are trying to fill a void in the market because GM hasn't increased production to meet demand.

 

[Polo08816]

That's calling winning.

He lives in an area where not everyone drives like a complete clown and wrecks their car on a regular basis... Or gets their car stolen on a regular basis.

I have full comprehensive insurance from USAA which tends to be more expensive than the other insurance companies for 3 vehicles and my annual premiums are $1800 combined. I've had two deer strikes in the last 3 years and I was always able to choose where to bring my cars. I've always selected dealers that have on-site collision repair centers and are track/motorsports sponsors with zero pushback from USAA.

Can’t imagine my auto insurance premium is so high because of occasional theft in an area within
25 miles. National average is over $1500 a year for car insurance for a single car. Again…idk who your
Insurance companies are but I’ve never heard or rates that low in my entire adult life

If you live in the tri-state area like I did, a lot changes within 25 miles. You will likely drive past a lot of shit holes on the way to and in NYC.

Where I live now, you can cover 40 miles in 40 minutes on my commute during peak traffic hours. In the NY metro area, it could easily take you over an hour just to go 25 miles.

My guess is insurance cost is largely correlated to population density.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

But in a normal market, we'd see thousands off MSRP for a GM product as well. Again, Stellantis and Ford are trying to fill a void in the market because GM hasn't increased production to meet demand.

GM technically has increased its production to meet demand because they’ve sold more Tahoes last year then ever before. And this year Yukon is on pace for a record setting year in sales.

I don’t think you realize that the inventory/parts shortage is out of their control. It’s not that they don’t want to produce more cars, it’s just that they can’t.