Cuts off when turning right (Intermittent)

[Loki223]

Alright, so i'll start a thread and see if we find the problem or not. I know the go to response here is "check the grounds" great, will do, let's move on from there because that's not the issue. Did some searching, and i can find a lot of other threads about this on various forums, but every one i found, the thread dies without anyone reporting a fix, just others tagging on asking if they find the issue. So maybe this one will end up like that, maybe it won't, let's find out together.

The ride, 2015 Suburban LTZ, fully loaded, approx 170kish miles

The Issue.

Yesterday, after leaving the ranch, i had come to a stop at a stop sign. After coming to a complete stop, i started going forward, made it about 25-30 degrees and the entire electrical system started shutting down like a bad connection. The truck didn't completely die, but it was trying. I had some throttle input as i was turning into traffic, so everything sputtered, and then came back to life. Burb wanted to act like nothing had happened. Made a left after that, no issues, couple stops from stop lights life was great. Made a right into a parking lot, and again, around 30-45 degrees, she cut out. This time, i didn't have much if any throttle input as i was turning into a parking lot off the road. But lost all power. Completely died. Coasted into a parking spot, and restarted like nothing had happened. By the time i had coasted into the parking spot, the electrical system had started coming back on, but i had nothing for a full second or two. After the restart, we went to where we were going. Came back out, and were on our way home. In the parking lot in park i turned the steering wheel lock to lock several times, then i put it in drive, did the same, no issues. Attempted to force a repeat of the failure in the parking lot, sharp right turns at low speed, couldn't get it to replicate. On the way home we had 1 sweeping right turn, and 3 sharp right turns at low speed. Not a single issue. every turn, right or left i tried to replicate what had happened earlier in the day, and no issues. burb wanted to ignore the issue.

Wife and i joked about it being because we had talked about selling the burb, so it is kind of superfluous for us. Her Acadia can do almost all the SUV stuff the burb can do. My truck does all the towing and misc stuff a truck should do. We were discussing getting something else as a spare vehicle that might serve a different purpose, and not be a duplicate of an existing vehicle in the fleet. So maybe the burb is mad, but in the several years we've owned it, this is the first time it's acted up like this, so i'm kinda curious

What i've found people suggest the most, Check grounds, battery connections, Alternator, and i saw some mentions of a Electronic power steering module. However the service bulletin i read on it states a loss of power steering, not a complete loss of power throughout the entire vehicle, including shutting down the engine. That makes me lean more towards battery connections, battery itself, which i'm pretty sure is pretty new IIRC, but i honestly forget off hand. Alternator makes sense, but at the same time doesn't due to the complete failure and intermittency, as well as grounds fall into this due to the intermittent nature. In my experience, bad grounds causing issues can be repeated pretty easily, same with alternator. This almost acted more like maybe computer or solder failures.....idk. Curious what y'all have heard or seen. Also curious if it'll be a couple of months thing, or what. Probably going to send the truck back in for service since i think i got all my truck stuff done so need the repair shop to fix a couple of things i don't think they did right under warranty repairs, so the burb will go back to being a DD during that time So i will likely find out how intermittent this issue is....

 

[Joseph Garcia]

While you were doing your driving and/or testing, did you have a quality bi-directional scanner hooked up to your OBDII connector and monitor the truck's activities in real time?

Do you have any existing/new trouble codes?

Long shot...... I recently had one of my cable bundles in the engine bay on the driver's side break away from its cable tie, and it fell into my front wheel well, and my tire started rubbing on it, when making a left turn. The friction wore through the cable wrap and rubbed through the insulation of some of the wires, exposing them. I suggest looking at your electrical wires, to ensure that they are firmly in place where they are supposed to be, and that there is no rubbing of electrical wires anywhere around the steering linkages and wheel hub/suspension components.

 

[Bigburb3500]

What about a potential clock spring issue? Something in there has frayed but only slightly causing the intermittent issue?

 

[Loki223]

While you were doing your driving and/or testing, did you have a quality bi-directional scanner hooked up to your OBDII connector and monitor the truck's activities in real time?

Do you have any existing/new trouble codes?

Long shot...... I recently had one of my cable bundles in the engine bay on the driver's side break away from its cable tie, and it fell into my front wheel well, and my tire started rubbing on it, when making a left turn. The friction wore through the cable wrap and rubbed through the insulation of some of the wires, exposing them. I suggest looking at your electrical wires, to ensure that they are firmly in place where they are supposed to be, and that there is no rubbing of electrical wires anywhere around the steering linkages and wheel hub/suspension components.

Why would i keep a nice bidirectional scanner in the spare weekend driver? that's sitting in the tool box at home! of course not. i did do a cursory check for any anomolies or anything near the tires, everything visible appeared fine in the parking lot. I'll probably have time to do some more diag later this week and weekend, but kinda looking for thoughts on directions to look towards. Hooking up the scanner and watching things will be a part of it, but again, if the problem just ups and disappears for a while, this is going to be very annoying. On one hand, i hope it does that. On the other hand, it'll reappear the second i get serious about selling and changing the fleet around

What about a potential clock spring issue? Something in there has frayed but only slightly causing the intermittent issue?

Sell me on your thoughts as to why the clock spring would take out the entire electrical system, including killing the motor, and why it would only happen on right turns (so far, but there were left turns made without incident on the trip that it was committing seppuku) I can think of a lot of reasons to consider a clock spring, but a total vehicle shut down isn't one of them, so curious as to your thoughts for looking in that direction

 

[Doubeleive]

I would get a flash light and hands and eyes in the engine compartment and under the vehicle and start looking and "feeling" around any and all wires wires and harness, especially ones that sit on anything or hang or rub on anything, paying attention to the bottom of said wires or harness where you cannot see anything but you might feel something.
basically a good visual and hands on inspection, the flashlight really helps even in daylight.
that's where I would start 100% for sure. so many times it turns out to be a chaffed or broken wires, hence the intermittent problems when the vehicle is in motion and things are moving around.
be sure to check the starter cable that is a known issue, either burnt at the starter or bare and burnt and rubbing on the heatshield. (may not be related to your problem but check anyway) some of them were not insulated properly at the starter connection and/or over time it gets cooked pretty good.

 

[fozzi58]

You said you CHECKED the grounds but did you REPLACE the grounds?

I've got multiple posts in this forum and other about this in my truck. The truck would literally "reboot" where everything would shut down and 2~5 seconds later it would come to life. This happened a couple times to me at 50+ on the highway, let alone during slow maneuvers.

I replaced all the grounds from the factory and added a few more and the truck hasn't repeated this issue in the last 3~4 years. When i cut open the factory ground cable it was green like the Statue of Liberty inside the sheathing but the ends of the cable looked fine. No corrosion at the battery terminal or where it was grounded on the alternator.

If you want to try something simple at first, get some quality 8 gauge wire and copper ring terminals. Add these grounds: frame to block, block to firewall (body) frame to body. That flat woven ground cable from the back of the block to the firewall is worthless. You can leave it or replace it. Just make sure you sand down the area of the firewall\body where you mount the ring terminal.

 

[Bigburb3500]

Why would i keep a nice bidirectional scanner in the spare weekend driver? that's sitting in the tool box at home! of course not. i did do a cursory check for any anomolies or anything near the tires, everything visible appeared fine in the parking lot. I'll probably have time to do some more diag later this week and weekend, but kinda looking for thoughts on directions to look towards. Hooking up the scanner and watching things will be a part of it, but again, if the problem just ups and disappears for a while, this is going to be very annoying. On one hand, i hope it does that. On the other hand, it'll reappear the second i get serious about selling and changing the fleet around



Sell me on your thoughts as to why the clock spring would take out the entire electrical system, including killing the motor, and why it would only happen on right turns (so far, but there were left turns made without incident on the trip that it was committing seppuku) I can think of a lot of reasons to consider a clock spring, but a total vehicle shut down isn't one of them, so curious as to your thoughts for looking in that direction

My thought is that you have only noticed it on right turns for now. It’s random enough that it just happened that way and something in the steering wheel is binding/shorting and causing a loss of communication to the system which is having a cascading effect on the truck.

Again, just a random thought but could also be something in the steering column and a short is happening?

 

[Loki223]

You said you CHECKED the grounds but did you REPLACE the grounds?

I've got multiple posts in this forum and other about this in my truck. The truck would literally "reboot" where everything would shut down and 2~5 seconds later it would come to life. This happened a couple times to me at 50+ on the highway, let alone during slow maneuvers.

I replaced all the grounds from the factory and added a few more and the truck hasn't repeated this issue in the last 3~4 years. When i cut open the factory ground cable it was green like the Statue of Liberty inside the sheathing but the ends of the cable looked fine. No corrosion at the battery terminal or where it was grounded on the alternator.

If you want to try something simple at first, get some quality 8 gauge wire and copper ring terminals. Add these grounds: frame to block, block to firewall (body) frame to body. That flat woven ground cable from the back of the block to the firewall is worthless. You can leave it or replace it. Just make sure you sand down the area of the firewall\body where you mount the ring terminal.

See, now this sounds like a good idear. This would be terrifying at high speeds, let alone low speeds turning into a parking lot.

Also i didn't say i've checked all the grounds, just that i knew that would be a suggestion and i guess implied was already on my list of things to look at this weekend when i have time to diag some more Being a spare vehicle, it's not as high of a priority to spend a bunch of time on as it might be for others. But i still like driving the darn thing around on the weekends lol

 

[Loki223]

So i didn't get a chance to go over the grounds, but there is definitely an issue somewhere. Was working fine, went to take it out Saturday, and the power running baords and doors and everything was fine, got into it, and the entire vehicle went dead. I'm going to pull the battery and get it load tested, i don't think i've replaced the battery in it since i bought it, and if the battery is shorting out internally and has dead cells and weird voltages, it could be the cause. After that, the plan is to go over all the grounds, going to pull up a list and pull the burb into the garage this weekend and just spend the time looking them over and inspecting the wires for degradation and oxidation It's not fun mechanicing, but it's neccesary

 

[Fless]

I would recommend cleaning them as opposed to just looking them over. The can be oxidized under the connections.

 

[LsHart]

What side is ur battery on? Passenger firewall? Is the battery hold down present? Crazy, ******* brakes and power or connection issues show but back on gas. Battery loose and hitting ground?

Clean battery connections.

 

[swathdiver]

When this happened to me, it was a loose positive battery cable. After sitting overnight, what is your battery's State of Charge?

If the battery is below 65% it is considered discharged and due for replacement.

 

[Loki223]

I would recommend cleaning them as opposed to just looking them over. The can be oxidized under the connections.

I guess i didn't say that, but yes that was part of the plan

When this happened to me, it was a loose positive battery cable. After sitting overnight, what is your battery's State of Charge?

View attachment 485686

If the battery is below 65% it is considered discharged and due for replacement.

Battery isn't showing any signs of discharged state, that's why a load test is going to be more imformative then anything else

 

[Loki223]

Alright so after much research and limitless knowledge. I did find a helpful TSB

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10209138-0001.pdf

So in addition to going over the grounds, i'll be following the TSB checks as well

I also found this quote, from this thread

Is your passenger front wheel rubbing the inner fender liner by chance? Lifted/lowered compared to stock ride height?

Which makes me wonder, just wtf was he chasing after? because i do occasionally get a rub there, makes me think i might start at that ground over there and inspect that side. I started getting a rub there after i installed the hard mud flaps....but if anyone knows what he was chasing with this comment, i would be curious to know more

Also, side note for my own references, the google search brings up these ground locations, are there additional ones or a better list to go off of?

Engine Compartment (G100-Series)

• G103 (Main Engine Ground): Located on the left rear of the engine block near the transmission bellhousing, or on the driver's side of the cowl near the brake booster. It is a critical ground for the starter and engine block.
• G106 & G109 (Body Grounds): Found on the front frame rails right under the radiator or directly behind the front wheels. Because they sit low and get hit with road splash, they are highly prone to corrosion.
• Cowl to Engine Strap: A braided grounding strap connecting the rear of the engine block to the firewall. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

Inside the Cabin (G200/G300-Series)

• Body Control Module (BCM) / Dash Grounds: Several grounds exist under the front left of the dashboard. One prominent ground is behind the driver's side A-pillar (behind the plastic pillar cover and dash trim).
• Seat / Floor Grounds: Located under the driver and passenger front seats for various internal modules and power seats. [1, 2]

Rear & Frame (G400-Series)

• Frame Rails: There are additional grounding studs located along the rear frame rails and behind the rear wheels, which ground the fuel pump, trailer wiring harnesses, and liftgate modules

 

[Loki223]

And yes, i would like to compile as much informative info into this thread as possible to help others, since every other thread i found seemed to dead end. i intend on reporting what i find

 

[Loki223]

If you want to try something simple at first, get some quality 8 gauge wire and copper ring terminals. Add these grounds: frame to block, block to firewall (body) frame to body. That flat woven ground cable from the back of the block to the firewall is worthless. You can leave it or replace it. Just make sure you sand down the area of the firewall\body where you mount the ring terminal.

I took a mental note of this, and now since i'll be having time this weekend (wife is heading off to a rodeo with her dad, so i get me time / garage time without interruptions) and figured i should check do you have a thread showing exactly where you added these, if there were pre-existing bolts/holes ect ect. On one hand, because it's informative, on another because it would save me time since i won't have to look to see where to add the grounds, i can just quickly go "here, here and here" and be done. Just want all my ducks in a row so i can get to relaxing Saturday and starting a different project rather then wrenching. Like finding a replacing a bad wire on the tractor as well...

 

[Loki223]

Also eff me, since here i am spam posting like some sort of guy with ADHD hanging out at a disco. But the other question i was thinking, do most of the ground spots have room to get a needle descaler in there? or should i plan on complaining as i clean up grounds by hand?

 

[Loki223]

And 95% sure @BlaineBug was referring to the primary ground from the battery to frame on the passenger side, just going over and through all of his posts since he hasn't be online in over a year to clarify his thought process....but such is life. That's why the lords of Kobol invented the search function on forums.

​

 

[Loki223]

Alright, so pretty sure we've found the issue. Still going to try and confirm it this week when we have time to mess with it some more.


Buut for everyone that said it was grounds, and i was all like "yeah i'll check 'em but i don't think that's the problem" i was right. you were wrong na na na na na boo boo. Given i was heavily influenced by every other mention of this issue having the same suggestion with the same report back of that not being the problem. But basically, i had gone over all the wiring, played the shake the baby game with the wiring and computers and connections and couldn't find the problem, and couldn't reliably replicate the issue. So i handed it off to my buddy who is an ex heavy duty diesel mechanic. I may be able to turn a wrench, but he had to do this every day for years. And low and behold, he had a heck of time trying to find anything. Eventually one of his buddies scanned it with an autel scanner and was able to find a fault in the BCM for roll over protection. We've had the issue happen 3 times. Computer has roll over protection faults hitting 3 times. We're going to get together later this week and do a shakey baby game with the suburban itself and see if we can make it fault the ROP again, and double check the counter for the fault to confirm thats the issue. His buddy who is a master tech thinks he might know a way to bypass the ROP, as otherwise, i think my other solution is a BCM swap

 

[JoeBlobs]

What triggers the roll over protection when the system operates normally?