Custom tunes vs standard

[88lance]

Christmas is coming, my dad bought a (I think 2011) suburban to rack up miles and keep miles off his truck. Has about 104k miles on it.

His only complaint is how "ridiculously sluggish and slow it is" and how "you have to almost floor it to get it to get the hell out of the way".
He loves it but he's almost considering selling it just because of this.

My brother has an identical suburban and has the same complaint.

I'm considering getting him a Diablo tuner for Christmas, since it seems to be the tune everyone suggests for these.

I have a five star tuner on my work truck, which is a 5.0 F-150, which works amazing. When I call five star to order it, they ask for several different pieces of information off the truck and send a tune written specifically for the truck from what I gather. Then it's plug and play.

On the Diablo website, I don't see different options for different types of tunes like I do on the five-star website, and they almost make it sound as if it's just a standard written tune that you order and works with about any suburban of that year.

So my question is, if that really is how these are, are they as good as tunes that are written specifically for your vehicle? I'm not seeing different options for different types of tunes (89 oct perf, 90 oct race, ect), and someone in the reviews mentioned that they "wish it was a written tune instead of a copy/paste standard tune".

Can someone point me in the right direction for what I need to order that actually makes a difference?

It's not going to be for racing or anything too wild, he just wants it to actually move when he pushes the throttle.

Would be great to get some pointers towards what I should be looking for. Thanks!

 

[mountie]

I’ll be listening to this conversation, even though I have an ’05 Yukon.
I just want my transmission to behave better.

 

[Marky Dissod]

The obvious: pre-written / cookie cutter tunes can be good or bad, depending on the 'resolution' of the template.
Less obvious: MOST pre-written tunes focus hard an what is immediately obvious to the driver, usually engine-throttle (ecm) & transmission-throttle response (tcm).
In other words, some pre-written tunes ONLY address one or both (?!) of the spark maps (?!), and one or more of the shift tables (?!),
because that'd be all it takes to impress most customers, especially if they'll be selling the vehicle in the near future.

Some of you may even know my Engine Half@$$ tuning story. Very briefly, leased a 2012 YXL in 2013.
Tuned it to be even more likely to use V4 mode more AND more often than GM OE, especially by Half@$$ing in 3rd & 4th as well as 5th and 6th.
Was trying to save even more gas while still being barely noticeable to anyone else EXCEPT me (maybe 1 out of 10 clients noticed IFF windows were open).
It did save a bit more gas for about two years, until it didn't, at which point it also increased oil consumption.

However I ALSO specified to use V4 mode as an overheat failsafe; it saved me and a client from stranding, plus it likely saved that engine, so ...

Point of that digression is that there is a lot of stuff that lots of drivers / owners may not immediately consider or possibly ever notice,
that is more likely to be addressed by a custom tune written specifically for each driver, vs a pre-packaged off-the-shelf tune template.

If y'all want an idea of how many potentially tune-able variables exist, click this link:

VCM Suite Online Help

(then double it for Direct Injected engines, which GM made far more difficult to tune anyway ...)
Some of them don't need to be tuned by anyone ever, others only get tuned by some custom tuners, the vast majority will be ignored by off-the-shelf tunes.

Long story short: If you can afford a custom tune, look for the custom tuner who wants your vehicle's powertrain to last even longer than GM intended,
especially if you're willing to accept shifts that are ever-so-slightly more noticeable than GM OE.
If you think you cannot afford a custom tune, think again.

... just want my transmission to behave better.

Why sell yourself short?

Any other questions, anybody?

 

[Joseph Garcia]

Lots of folks here like the BlackBear Performance either in-truck or remote tune. For most, the remote tune is the logistically preferred tune, as driving hundreds or thousands of miles to get a tune is not practical for most. I've had one of their remote tunes, and there was absolutely a very significant difference in how the motor and transmission performed. I think that their remote tunes run in the neighborhood of $800.

You get an AutoCal device with the tune purchase, and you hook it up to your OBDII connector and run a series of truck maneuvers as stated in the instructions. After 15-20 minutes of data collection, you connect the AutoCal device to your computer and pull a couple of files off the device, and email them to BlackBear.

They review your data and build a custom tune to your desires (you discuss you desires up front with them, so that everybody is clear on what is expected). They email the tune files back to you, you download them to your AutoCal device, connect to the OBDII connector and install the new tune files. You also receive installable files for your original tune, so that you can convert back to the original tune at any time, using the AutoCal device.

BlackBear Performance is one of our preferred vendor, so give them a call and discuss your desires. Using this method, you and your dad do not have to become tune journeymen or experts to accomplish your objective.

 

[mountie]

The obvious: pre-written / cookie cutter tunes can be good or bad, depending on the 'resolution' of the template.
Less obvious: MOST pre-written tunes focus hard an what is immediately obvious to the driver, usually engine-throttle (ecm) & transmission-throttle response (tcm).
In other words, some pre-written tunes ONLY address one or both (?!) of the spark maps (?!), and one or more of the shift tables (?!),
because that'd be all it takes to impress most customers, especially if they'll be selling the vehicle in the near future.

Some of you may even know my Engine Half@$$ tuning story. Very briefly, leased a 2012 YXL in 2013.
Tuned it to be even more likely to use V4 mode more AND more often than GM OE, especially by Half@$$ing in 3rd & 4th as well as 5th and 6th.
Was trying to save even more gas while still being barely noticeable to anyone else EXCEPT me (maybe 1 out of 10 clients noticed IFF windows were open).
It did save a bit more gas for about two years, until it didn't, at which point it also increased oil consumption.

However I ALSO specified to use V4 mode as an overheat failsafe; it saved me and a client from stranding, plus it likely saved that engine, so ...

Point of that digression is that there is a lot of stuff that lots of drivers / owners may not immediately consider or possibly ever notice,
that is more likely to be addressed by a custom tune written specifically for each driver, vs a pre-packaged off-the-shelf tune template.

If y'all want an idea of how many potentially tune-able variables exist, click this link:

VCM Suite Online Help

(then double it for Direct Injected engines, which GM made far more difficult to tune anyway ...)
Some of them don't need to be tuned by anyone ever, others only get tuned by some custom tuners, the vast majority will be ignored by off-the-shelf tunes.

Long story short: If you can afford a custom tune, look for the custom tuner who wants your vehicle's powertrain to last even longer than GM intended,
especially if you're willing to accept shifts that are ever-so-slightly more noticeable than GM OE.
If you think you cannot afford a custom tune, think again.Why sell yourself short?

Any other questions, anybody?

What I meant… the 1st gear to next gear shift is ‘wonky’…. I also wish for a better tune, but as my stock setup is running, the shift is what I notice right now…. I know more tuning will make my truck perform ‘more’ properly…. But I wish there was a local quality shop I could visit. I COMPLETELY agree with ya…. I don’t mind spending the $heets.

 

[Marky Dissod]

... just want my transmission to behave better.

... 1Up2 shift is ‘wonky’

THIS is exactly why the best tunes are in-person ride-alongs, and are almost always worth the premium.
2nd best is when the tuner uses data feedback from your driving. Depending on the nature/quality of the data, usually more than good enough for nearly all of us.
3rd best is when the tuner mails your tuned pcm after asking questions. Slightly better is when the tuner Emails your tune file.
If the tuner is willing to make corrective revisions to suit your taste, this is usually good enough for most of us.

(Although I don't do ride-alongs or data analysis, my IronBlock LT1 tunes are based on having owned 4 LT1 Caprices and a Cadillac Fleetwood from 2001-2016.
In other words, if your tuner also owns a close relative of your vehicle you want tuned, they'll likely have a better understanding of what you're getting at.
Bonus points if their vehicle has weaker axle gearing and/or an undersized engine.)

Biggest reason why I've never bothered with mass produced tunes is because of how rarely such tunes address anything beyond the very-bottom-of-the-barrel basics.
Learning to tune for yourself from more experienced tuners is actually very competitive with canned tunes, especially if you plan to keep the vehicle long enough.

mountie, my guess is it upshifts as early as possible, is very reluctant to downshift, and generally shifts more often than necessary?

 

[mountie]

THIS is exactly why the best tunes are in-person ride-alongs, and are almost always worth the premium.
2nd best is when the tuner uses data feedback from your driving. Depending on the nature/quality of the data, usually more than good enough for nearly all of us.
3rd best is when the tuner mails your tuned pcm after asking questions. Slightly better is when the tuner Emails your tune file.
If the tuner is willing to make corrective revisions to suit your taste, this is usually good enough for most of us.

(Although I don't do ride-alongs or data analysis, my IronBlock LT1 tunes are based on having owned 4 LT1 Caprices and a Cadillac Fleetwood from 2001-2016.
In other words, if your tuner also owns a close relative of your vehicle you want tuned, they'll likely have a better understanding of what you're getting at.
Bonus points if their vehicle has weaker axle gearing and/or an undersized engine.)

Biggest reason why I've never bothered with mass produced tunes is because of how rarely such tunes address anything beyond the very-bottom-of-the-barrel basics.
Learning to tune for yourself from more experienced tuners is actually very competitive with canned tunes, especially if you plan to keep the vehicle long enough.

mountie, my guess is it upshifts as early as possible, is very reluctant to downshift, and generally shifts more often than necessary?

Good read……. My most often complaint, is from ALMOST a standing start at a traffic light, etc., ….. It kinda takes off, then as it begins to ‘get going’, it downshifts. I back off the throttle. Them ‘manage’ the forward movement. “ wonky “…..

I searched for ECM tuners here in Palm Beach County……. There is a few performance shops…. But I will get suggestions from a friend that is BIG into performance and dyno shops in this area. ( He owns some, and is one of the racer-guys involved in purchasing the Palm Beach International Raceway, at the moment. He is connected to the shops here…..
I hope a local shop can tune my ’05 Yukon. I have a difficult time, convincing myself to tune it “ remotely “.
No offense to companies like Blackbear, etc…….

 

[Fless]

Good read……. My most often complaint, is from ALMOST a standing start at a traffic light, etc., ….. It kinda takes off, then as it begins to ‘get going’, it downshifts. I back off the throttle. Them ‘manage’ the forward movement. “ wonky “…..

Shifting from 1st to 2nd, for example, is called up-shifting ("up" to a higher numbered gear). When decelerating and going from 3rd to 2nd, for example, that's down-shifting.

 

[88lance]

Thanks for the responses. Since he's not going to be driving it like a race car, I'm hoping I could get something in the $500 or less range that would fit his needs. I noticed Diablew has some custom tunes for $480 or so, and let's you choose options, maybe these would be a good middle ground of price and performance, for what he does anyway?

 

[Marky Dissod]

Good read ... My most often complaint, is from ALMOST a standing start at a traffic light, etc., it kinda takes off, then as it begins to ‘get going’, it downshifts.
I back off the throttle. Then ‘manage’ the forward movement. “wonky“ ...

I THINK, either YOU roll the throttle a bit slowly,
or since yours is an '05 it's an electronic signal throttle.
If you move the throttle pedal from 0% to 33% QUICKLY, GM might make this take so long, that you might let go of the throttle pedal before it opens 33%.
Chose a number at random, but I think it makes my point.
Most likely you'd prefer the throttle to behave more like a physical cable throttle, even if the shift table stays conservative.

I searched for ECM tuners here in Palm Beach County ... There is a few performance shops ...
But I will get suggestions from a friend that is BIG into performance and dyno shops in this area.
He owns some, and is one of the racer-guys involved in purchasing the Palm Beach International Raceway, at the moment.
He is connected to the shops here. I hope a local shop can tune my ’05 Yukon. I have a difficult time, convincing myself to tune it "remotely".
No offense to companies like Blackbear, etc.

You got lots of questions ... You really ought to read up on the subject.
It's NOT as daunting as you fear it is. Worse come worse, you have a better idea of what the tuner is actually capable of, and less fear.

Shifting from 1st to 2nd, for example, is called up-shifting ("up" to a higher numbered gear).
When decelerating and going from 3rd to 2nd, for example, that's down-shifting.

Limiting this discussion to 4L60E ...
I write upshifts as 1Up2, 2Up3, 3Up4. 1Up3 & 2Up4 are very rare, and 1Up4 is nearly impossible, unless you suddenly lift throttle.
I write downshifts as 4Dn3, 3Dn2, 2Dn1. 4Dn2 & 3Dn1 are not as rare as 1Up3 & 2Up4. 4Dn1 is rare, usually when you suddenly add lots of throttle quickly ...
which GM OE tunes tend to discourage by opening the throttle slower than your foot moves.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Since he's not going to be driving it like a race car, I'm hoping I could get something in the $500 or less range that would fit his needs.
I noticed Diablew has some custom tunes for $480 or so, and lets you choose options, maybe these would be a good middle ground of price and performance,
for what he does anyway?

PCMperformance Programming

then scroll down some ...

99-07 Trucks & SUVs (GMT800) with P01 or P59 pcms ... $250 for the tune in your pcm.
If you want to buy a tuned pcm, ask him how much more that'd be: [email protected]
He's been tuning for 20 years with an unblemished reputation.

 

[mikez71]

I write upshifts as 1Up2, 2Up3, 3Up4. 1Up3 & 2Up4 are very rare, and 1Up4 is nearly impossible, unless you suddenly lift throttle.
I write downshifts as 4Dn3, 3Dn2, 2Dn1.

I feel that is harder to read than just 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, or 4-3, 3-2, 2-1.

Since it's inpossible to have a 2Up1 or 2Dn3..

 

[Bigburb3500]

PCMperformance Programming

then scroll down some ...

99-07 Trucks & SUVs (GMT800) with P01 or P59 pcms ... $250 for the tune in your pcm.
If you want to buy a tuned pcm, ask him how much more that'd be: [email protected]
He's been tuning for 20 years with an unblemished reputation.

I have a BlackBear tune (it does go on sale periodically and I bought mine during the NewYr or Christmas sale), but if Marky recommends something I would be inclined to review closely. He started interacting on my initial post a few yrs ago when I bought my GM Frankenstein truck and was SUPER helpful figuring out specs and different items on it.

 

[Marky Dissod]

He started interacting on my initial post a few yrs ago when I bought my GM Frankenstein truck
and was SUPER helpful figuring out specs and different items on it.

Thanks and also you're welcome. My hope is that every GMT800 gets nothing less than a 3.73 or 4.10,
& a tune that makes them happy.
(Anyone know if pickup truck torsion bars are the same length as / interchangeable with SUV torsion bars?
Got my own Frankenstein project ...)

 

[Bigburb3500]

Thanks and also you're welcome. My hope is that every GMT800 gets nothing less than a 3.73 or 4.10,
& a tune that makes them happy.
(Anyone know if pickup truck torsion bars are the same length as / interchangeable with SUV torsion bars?
Got my own Frankenstein project ...)

Offhand I do not. Now you have me curious what you are up to!

 

[Marky Dissod]

Sorry for the digression ...

Offhand I do not. Now you have me curious what you are up to!

What I'm aiming for is very reasonable, but my budget is presently tightly constrained.

*An L77 6.0L to start with would be better. Nothing wrong with L76 / LY6 / L96 / LC8 6.0L, but one full point more of scr will help A LOT.
862 or 799 heads, maybe very gently ported. Goal is a 6.0L that improves on the LS2, with as many GM OE parts as reasonably possible.
*Found recent GM OE 17" wheels that accommodate GMTK2-- 13.5" rotor 4 piston caliper front brake kit without spacers
*Need to find the stiffest GM OE swaybars, H2 & some welding for rear axle, need more front axle research
*Hope is that all GMT400-1500 & GMT800-1500 torsion bars are interchangeable.
FEAR is that 1500-pickup truck torsion bars are longer than suv torsion bars,
I know that 1500-pickup truck torsion bars are stiffer than suv torsion bars (wrote a list in a different thread for y'all, but it has no LENGTHS yet)
*Bilstein 5100s might not be quite enough? Also need stiffer rear coils.
*4.10 axleS (others might be very happy with the above & 3.73, I prefer 4.10)

Overall idea is to make a better GMT821 PPV AND SSV, in one vehicle, than GM COULD have but didn't, using as much GM OE stuff as possible,
with more imagination / less constraint than the narrow definition of GM OE most people use.

 

[Bigburb3500]

Sorry for the digression ...What I'm aiming for is very reasonable, but my budget is presently tightly constrained.

*An L77 6.0L to start with would be better. Nothing wrong with L76 / LY6 / L96 / LC8 6.0L, but one full point more of scr will help A LOT.
862 or 799 heads, maybe very gently ported. Goal is a 6.0L that improves on the LS2, with as many GM OE parts as reasonably possible.
*Found recent GM OE 17" wheels that accommodate GMTK2-- 13.5" rotor 4 piston caliper front brake kit without spacers
*Need to find the stiffest GM OE swaybars, H2 & some welding for rear axle, need more front axle research
*Hope is that all GMT400-1500 & GMT800-1500 torsion bars are interchangeable.
FEAR is that 1500-pickup truck torsion bars are longer than suv torsion bars,
I know that 1500-pickup truck torsion bars are stiffer than suv torsion bars (wrote a list in a different thread for y'all, but it has no LENGTHS yet)
*Bilstein 5100s might not be quite enough? Also need stiffer rear coils.
*4.10 axleS (others might be very happy with the above & 3.73, I prefer 4.10)

Overall idea is to make a better GMT821 PPV AND SSV, in one vehicle, than GM COULD have but didn't, using as much GM OE stuff as possible,
with more imagination / less constraint than the narrow definition of GM OE most people use.

Definitely look at the Suburban 2500/3500 platform for parts. I’m finding a lot of them are interchangeable with parts from the Silverado 2500/3500 from 2009-2013 so it might support some of your modifications!

There is a company out of CA called IzzyFab that I really want to do to my truck but $$ is a bit out of reach at this point.

 

[89Suburban]

I got the Diablew custom tune. There is a generic tune you install first. Run that for a few hundred miles. Email him back a data log. Then he send the custom tune. You load that up and when the truck relearning lookout. Total beast now. Worth every penny imho.

I will add more to this as time permits. Been getting my ass kicked a lot the past few weeks. Free time has been limited.

 

[89Suburban]

My brother has an ‘07 Silverado I hope to tune his as well, once I talk him into it. Waiting for him to get the chance to drive mine and I know he will want it for sure.

Biggest improvement to me is the rolling downshifts and takeoffs. Trying to stay out of trouble with it. TRYING.

Much more predictable throttle and shift feel. Idle is slightly higher, shift points are higher. Engine is in its power range when you need it.

 

[89Suburban]

Here is some of my correspondence with Diablew:


Cool, thanks man...

And with the actual tune, you won't have to remove it or do anything before you go for your emissions testing... you just go get it done... ;-)

Here's a looong email below for you with info about the programmers, the differences, the custom tuning, THE PROCESS section below for what you'd need to do, etc..

---- It's a looong email so you may not be able to see/read the whole thing from a phone, so it's best to read it from a computer... ----


The diablosport inTune i3 or Trinity T2 would both work for your vehicle...

I sell both the inTune i3 and Trinity T2 programmers, and I also offer a package deal as well that includes my custom tuning at a discount so you'd save some $$. ;-)

You can find info about them, as well as links to my Package Deals, Testimonials, Pricing, purchasing/ordering, etc. on my site here: inTune 8245 Package Deal - https://www.diablewtune.net/package_deals.html#i38245 ----- Trinity 9245 Package Deal - https://www.diablewtune.net/package_deals.html#t29245

As for the difference between the two programmers... I actually have both the inTune and Trinity for my vehicles... tune-wise, the tunes are the same. adjustable parameters are the same, and of course my custom tune would be the same as well...

The Trinity has a few more features, including a performance monitor for 0-60, 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile times, etc... bigger color touch screen... graphic virtual gauges for monitoring data... it has a windshield mount (like a gps)... you can watch/view the data without having to hold it, since it's mounted to the windshield...

The inTune is smaller (it's the size of a credit card), it does not have the performance monitor, and does not have the graphic virtual gauges, etc, and it's less expensive...

Here are links to their user manuals so you can check them both out:

Trinity T2 User Manual:
https://www.diablewtune.net/downloads/Trinity_T2_manual.pdf

InTune i3 User Manual:
https://www.diablewtune.net/downloads/inTune_i2i3_manual.pdf

So it's up to you which one you'd want...


CUSTOM TUNE INFO

With the custom tune, you'll gain even better/quicker throttle response & acceleration, stronger/harder pull, smoother & quicker power delivery throughout the rpm's, better tranny performance/shifting, improved towing performance, etc...

I change a lot of things... a small sample of just SOME of the things are: disable the DOD/AFM, disable engine torque management, adjust part-throttle fueling/timing, WOT fueling/timing, knock retard settings, throttle settings, tranny shifting settings (pressure/firmness, shift points, quickness), etc...

As far as gains go... absolute hp/tq gains are hard to predict... every vehicle is different... even if they're the same and have similar mods... location/weather, fuel used, elevation/altitude, etc etc all play a role... the same holds true for mileage gains - those variables, plus driving habits/style, how much highway vs city driving, etc all make a difference.... you could gain no mpg increase, or you could gain up to about 3 mpg increase...

With the custom tune, I CAN tell you that you will definitely have a very noticeable performance difference/gain over and above the canned preset diablo tunes...

In the past, I have gained people anywhere from 12-39 hp, and 10-35 lb.-ft. torque...and 0 to 3 mpg... again, obviously mods, fuel used, etc all played a role in who gained what...

Tough to say due to the variables in play... so there is no guarantee of any specific/certain amount of hp/tq or mileage gains...


I give free tune updates for 1 year: So if you were to add a cai, headers, cat-back exhaust, remove cats, high-flow cats... you'd just let me know.. I'd have you do some new data logs for me, and I'd send you an updated custom tune file. After 1 year, it would be just $75 for tune updates, and that would cover you for another 6 months.... --- I can not, and will not, disable any emissions-related trouble codes/items for mods such as long tube headers, no cats or high-flow cats.

I do not do email tuning for aftermarket turbos, superchargers, cams.... Those setups would require you to take it to a shop to get tuned safely on a dyno...

The custom tune is for 1 octane level - 87/89 octane OR 91/93 octane. If you wish to have 2 octane level tunes, it would be just an additional $50 USD for the 2nd custom octane tune - which can be paid for via www.paypal.me/DiabLewTune/50 ......


THE PROCESS:

You'd purchase the package deal ( inTune 8245 Package Deal - https://www.diablewtune.net/package_deals.html#i38245 ----- Trinity 9245 Package Deal - https://www.diablewtune.net/package_deals.html#t29245 )... I receive the order and payment... I submit the order to my supplier and the programmer ships from them directly to you...

You receive the tool... the first thing you would need to do is update it to all of the latest updates... once all the updates are done and complete, then you are ready to connect it to your vehicle and select one of the preset tunes -- either the "87 Octane Tune" if you use 87/89 octane gas most of the time, OR the "Diablo Tune" if you're going to use 91/93 octane gas all the time....

Then it should ask you to select a TCM tune for the tranny, so select the "Firm Shift" tune...

Then select Install/Apply Tune and install the tunes...

The tool will first save the copies of your original backup stock tune files in itself, and then it will continue and install the performance tunes you selected.

Once the install is done, then you're good to go with the preset canned generic tune.

Then you'd need to drive a few days or so until you get at least about 150-200+ miles put on the preset tune so that everything gets relearned by the ECM and settles in, and then you'd be ready to record the steady driving data log. And I have info/instructions for how to do everything, so no worries there....

Once you have the data log done, then, you'd connect the tool back up to your computer... get copies of the "original backup" and "last tune written" tune files, and the data log, copied from the programmer to your PC, then you email me copies of all of the files I need (the data log file and copies of all tune files), etc...

I create the custom tune files and then email them back to you...

You import the custom tune files into the tool... then connect the tool to your vehicle and select the custom tunes to install, then install the tunes...

You drive however you normally do for a couple/few days until you've put on at least 150+ miles or more with the custom tunes installed so that the fuel trims and such have been relearned by the ECM and have settled in, and then we move on to the WOT fun!

I then have you do a WOT data log for me, I go through it, make any needed adjustments to WOT fueling/timing, send you an updated final tune, and you're good to go!

Thanks for asking John, I appreciate it!

Thanks!