Considering 21 Tahoe LT or Z71

[Stbentoak]

Well dependable doesn't do you any good if it isn't what you need... And GM has the vehicle we NEED for our lifecycle at this time...

I think the best way to ride the rails with these vehicles is to buy an extended warranty. Fold it into the numbers and move on... At least with whatever comes up, you are covered. If nothing comes up you are lucky !

 

[B520044]

The Traverse is a nice vehicle, and probably one of the best looking ones that GM has designed in years IMO. A lot of the first year issues with it have not been cool at all and we made the mistake not getting an extended warranty. The independent rear suspension is a plus to get more leg room in the 3rd row and what is drawing us to it.



That is a shame what this company has turned into. When customers are paying $50-80k+ on these vehicles, they should be better quality than what they are putting out there.

Yeah I know several family members with Toyota's that have put 200-300k on them before they started having any kind of issues. It's the one good thing with Toyota, their vehicles are ancient as hell in terms of bring behind with technology and looks, but those things keep on ticking. As a longtime owner of GM vehicles, I really do hope that they wake up here at some point or else they will be in trouble again and this time no bailout will save them. It sucks to hear that you had a ton of issues with your 2016.

With everything I've experienced with GMC since buying my 21 Yukon in July, I expect them to lose lots of market share. With the new Wagoneer coming, new Grand Cherokee L and new Sequoia; they will lose sales. Heck, the redesigned Armada is nice and has a solid power-train. (hindsight is always 20/20)

 

[B520044]

Well dependable doesn't do you any good if it isn't what you need... And GM has the vehicle we NEED for our lifecycle at this time...

I think the best way to ride the rails with these vehicles is to buy an extended warranty. Fold it into the numbers and move on... At least with whatever comes up, you are covered. If nothing comes up you are lucky !

The problem is getting them to acknowledge a problem and fix the problem under warranty.

 

[captainzombie]

The problem is getting them to acknowledge a problem and fix the problem under warranty.

That I do agree with you 100%. There was an issue with the brakes at about 22,000 miles on our Traverse. There were a lot of posts from others on forums having the same issue and to only find out that there was a service bulletin about it. I had to argue with the service manager to get them replaced. They decided to change them out for free. Now 23,000 miles later, we are experiencing the same exact squeaking noises. Last year, we had the frame replaced on the passenger seat under warranty. The same issue just occurred with the seat a month ago and they refused to fix it. They told me at first it would be $1400 to fix, then after I told him "NO", he's like let me contact GM to see if they can split the cost. I get a call from them saying they can fix it for $225. I went ahead getting it fixed even though I know we are trading the vehicle in because this could be a potential safety hazard in an accident for my family.

Stuff like this is what gets me so irritated with them. If they would just fix the issues when a customer reports them and not play stupid, it would go a long way.

Like you said, within the next 2 years they will have quite the competition so they can't keep doing this garbage to customers with low quality products and service for a premium. The sad part for us is that we either trade-in the Traverse and get another one since we need the extra leg room in the 3rd row for my teens since there is no other mid-size SUV in the segment that offers this. Then you find your way to the full size SUV's and I feel like GM owns that segment. We would have considered the Sequoia but for the money the thing does feel like its from 2008.

 

[TooManyKids]

I have a 21 LT and it has been perfect. No errors or anything else at all.

One thought on the LT wheels. I opted for the 18" wheels, wanting more rubber between the wheel and the ground. What I failed to realize is that the overall tire dimension is smaller on the 18" wheels than the 20" wheels. The result is not only not any additional rubber, but a wheel/tire that looks too small for the wheel well that it's in. That is my big regret with this vehicle. Not big enough for me to shell out $1,000 for new, larger tires, but I think the factory 18" wheels are a bad decision. (When I bought my last F150 from the factory, the tire size was the same regardless of wheel size--so I stupidly assumed that would be the case here.) If I had to do it over again, I would have either gone for the LT package with the 20" wheels, or done the Premiere. My wife says the Z71 is obnoxious looking, hah!

Other than that, and possibly the recovery hooks on front, there is nothing I would want that my LT does not have. Maybe the air or magnetic suspensions are great, but my LT rides incredibly (at least compared to my other recent vehicles, which are minivans, pickups, and a full-size van).

 

[Hrocks]

captainzombie...Some will classify what I'm about to state as heresy. I too am a long time GM guy and still have a rock solid '10 Tahoe LTZ. I had been jonesing for a new Escalade, Tahoe or Denali ever since the GMT 2KXX platform came out in 2014. I was a major lurker on this forum to get real world feedback on the vehicles. By many accounts on this forum, they suffered many maladies, from early Escalades being bought back without question, (transmissions) to a seemingly unfixable drone, vibrations and other minor issues across the platform. (It appears that GM finally got them right.) However, I bought two Lexus BOF SUV's in the interim.

When I learned of the latest (T1XX?) redesign with IRS, I thought this generation might finally get it right. After hearing some of the horrors of someone spending $85,000 on a loaded Denali or $100k+ on an Escalade and having the valve springs popping/breaking on a brand new vehicle, it just made me sad and mad that as much as I truly love the design, content and performance, that I just could not pull the trigger. I just bought my third Lexus, a '21 GX460. These, the Sequoia, Land Cruiser and Lexus LX are ancient platforms that are totally bulletproof. There are definitely some tradeoffs in the infotainment areas especially, but if all you want to do to maintain your ride is basically change the oil and rotate the tires, there's no comparison. Like I stated from the get go, I still have and love my 10 year old Tahoe, (that my son will be taking to college) but from what I've read on this forum, the newer generations are just not the same. Let us know which way you go.

 

[DWSmoot]

I have a 2021 Z71 purchased in July. 9k miles with no issues whatsoever to date. Love it!

 

[captainzombie]

Sounds like there is some good experiences sprinkled in with some not so great ones. It really stinks for those that are having issues with their Yukons and Tahoes. It definitely is no excuse considering what these vehicles cost.

We almost pulled the trigger on an LT today, but the dealer we were at was trying to play games with our trade. I ended up calling him out with his BS, and we just walked out. The sad part is my wife took her Traverse to CarMax right afterwards to see how off this dealership was and they were willing to give us another $1K then what they were offering, and then I also checked Edmunds.com which was roughly $1200 more than the dealership along with KBB.com and TrueCar.

I hate having a trade-in, it always causes some additional headaches at these damn dealerships. What pissed him off is that I wouldn't give him any of the information that he wanted about what we owed on our vehicle, what we want to pay, etc. I kept telling him that we work the deal by looking at the trade first and then look at what the Tahoe costs afterwards because they obviously were not willing to take anymore off of the cost of the Tahoe. He gives me this BS that he needs it all on paper to work out the deal. These people think that so many of us that have been buying cars for so many years are this stupid.

 

[Hrocks]

You handled that exactly right. Many, many people only care about their monthly payment and I believe that's why so many sales people ask questions that have nothing to do with the actual money difference. To those in the know, it is very frustrating. Including my new GX, I actually had two other deals made sight unseen for the Genesis, and a L Certified LX. I cut to the chase with these guys and tell them that I am going to buy a car "today" IF the money difference is right and I like their vehicle. They sputter and say they haven't seen my car and give you a low ball number. I get my cars detailed every year, so I tell them let's play "what if"- - If they agree that my car is in the condition I claim it is, then they give me the high number that we've agreed to. In each case, I had no dissension from my characterizion of the quality of my trade in. I tell them that I'm not going to pay for "lifetime warranties, paint and upholstery protectent, etc. etc. etc." It takes all the BS games many like to play out of the equation. I've also asked the sales person if it helps them or makes a $$ difference to them personally if I write a check or finance it. Some deals they make an extra $100 bucks if it's financed. I tell them that as long as there's no prepayment penalty that I'll do that for them. The Lexus dealers were much more straight forward than the Genesis and most other dealers I've delt with over the years. Sounds like you're doing your homework and know what the real numbers are. Bottom line, it's YOUR money. Do what's best for YOU. The dealers always win no matter what they tell you. Good luck!

 

[Stbentoak]

You handled that exactly right. Many, many people only care about their monthly payment and I believe that's why so many sales people ask questions that have nothing to do with the actual money difference. To those in the know, it is very frustrating. Including my new GX, I actually had two other deals made sight unseen for the Genesis, and a L Certified LX. I cut to the chase with these guys and tell them that I am going to buy a car "today" IF the money difference is right and I like their vehicle. They sputter and say they haven't seen my car and give you a low ball number. I get my cars detailed every year, so I tell them let's play "what if"- - If they agree that my car is in the condition I claim it is, then they give me the high number that we've agreed to. In each case, I had no dissension from my characterizion of the quality of my trade in. I tell them that I'm not going to pay for "lifetime warranties, paint and upholstery protectent, etc. etc. etc." It takes all the BS games many like to play out of the equation. I've also asked the sales person if it helps them or makes a $$ difference to them personally if I write a check or finance it. Some deals they make an extra $100 bucks if it's financed. I tell them that as long as there's no prepayment penalty that I'll do that for them. The Lexus dealers were much more straight forward than the Genesis and most other dealers I've delt with over the years. Sounds like you're doing your homework and know what the real numbers are. Bottom line, it's YOUR money. Do what's best for YOU. The dealers always win no matter what they tell you. Good luck!

This is all true ... BUT... When you give them the ground rules up front ( Which generally I like and agree with...) They then know there is going to be no more added profit in the finance office and they better make "Some" money on the actual deal. Most dealers make more money on the gingerbread fees and add on's and financing than they ever do on the actual selling price.... So you won't get the actual "Lowest" price on the vehicle, as the sales guy runs back and forth with the GM/finance manager.
The best position is to get into the finance office as soon as possible telling the sales guy you will make the deal if you can come to terms with Finance/GM. In that office is where the rubber meets the road. #1 rule in this office is don't be afraid to WALK. Have a # in mind that you researched and are willing to pay all in. They can add fee's etc sealant, finance it, loan shark loan it, and give you teddy bears, but this is your number and you are buying today if that # can be met. If its a FAIR # (Subjective and based on availability and consumer demand..) they will not let you walk out of that door.

I usually go in with the attitude that I don't HAVE to buy a car today, but if they will meet me somewhere in a fair zone in my mind, we will make a deal today. Remember a good deal is really only what you perceive it to be. The guy behind you could have paid a lot more or a lot less and you will never really know....

 

[Hrocks]

This is all true ... BUT... When you give them the ground rules up front ( Which generally I like and agree with...) They then know there is going to be no more added profit in the finance office and they better make "Some" money on the actual deal. Most dealers make more money on the gingerbread fees and add on's and financing than they ever do on the actual selling price.... So you won't get the actual "Lowest" price on the vehicle, as the sales guy runs back and forth with the GM/finance manager.
The best position is to get into the finance office as soon as possible telling the sales guy you will make the deal if you can come to terms with Finance/GM. In that office is where the rubber meets the road. #1 rule in this office is don't be afraid to WALK. Have a # in mind that you researched and are willing to pay all in. They can add fee's etc sealant, finance it, loan shark loan it, and give you teddy bears, but this is your number and you are buying today if that # can be met. If its a FAIR # (Subjective and based on availability and consumer demand..) they will not let you walk out of that door.

I usually go in with the attitude that I don't HAVE to buy a car today, but if they will meet me somewhere in a fair zone in my mind, we will make a deal today. Remember a good deal is really only what you perceive it to be. The guy behind you could have paid a lot more or a lot less and you will never really know....

I wouldn't disagree if I were coming into a Chevy/Cadillac/GMC dealer cold and was playing "let's make a deal" with the salesman, his sales manager and then the GM. I had already been down that road with enough dealers to know what the best deal was. When you can get top dollar for your trade and $5,000+ off sticker on a '21 Lexus (not a grossly overpriced domestic) that just got on their lot and it's the LAST day of their fiscal year...I knew I got a fair deal. They offered the extended warranty and other crap, but I told them one of the main reasons I purchase Toyota vehicles is because their bulletproof. The finance guy just smilled and I wrote him a check for the money difference.

 

[captainzombie]

You handled that exactly right. Many, many people only care about their monthly payment and I believe that's why so many sales people ask questions that have nothing to do with the actual money difference. To those in the know, it is very frustrating. Including my new GX, I actually had two other deals made sight unseen for the Genesis, and a L Certified LX. I cut to the chase with these guys and tell them that I am going to buy a car "today" IF the money difference is right and I like their vehicle. They sputter and say they haven't seen my car and give you a low ball number. I get my cars detailed every year, so I tell them let's play "what if"- - If they agree that my car is in the condition I claim it is, then they give me the high number that we've agreed to. In each case, I had no dissension from my characterizion of the quality of my trade in. I tell them that I'm not going to pay for "lifetime warranties, paint and upholstery protectent, etc. etc. etc." It takes all the BS games many like to play out of the equation. I've also asked the sales person if it helps them or makes a $$ difference to them personally if I write a check or finance it. Some deals they make an extra $100 bucks if it's financed. I tell them that as long as there's no prepayment penalty that I'll do that for them. The Lexus dealers were much more straight forward than the Genesis and most other dealers I've delt with over the years. Sounds like you're doing your homework and know what the real numbers are. Bottom line, it's YOUR money. Do what's best for YOU. The dealers always win no matter what they tell you. Good luck!

This is all true ... BUT... When you give them the ground rules up front ( Which generally I like and agree with...) They then know there is going to be no more added profit in the finance office and they better make "Some" money on the actual deal. Most dealers make more money on the gingerbread fees and add on's and financing than they ever do on the actual selling price.... So you won't get the actual "Lowest" price on the vehicle, as the sales guy runs back and forth with the GM/finance manager.
The best position is to get into the finance office as soon as possible telling the sales guy you will make the deal if you can come to terms with Finance/GM. In that office is where the rubber meets the road. #1 rule in this office is don't be afraid to WALK. Have a # in mind that you researched and are willing to pay all in. They can add fee's etc sealant, finance it, loan shark loan it, and give you teddy bears, but this is your number and you are buying today if that # can be met. If its a FAIR # (Subjective and based on availability and consumer demand..) they will not let you walk out of that door.

I usually go in with the attitude that I don't HAVE to buy a car today, but if they will meet me somewhere in a fair zone in my mind, we will make a deal today. Remember a good deal is really only what you perceive it to be. The guy behind you could have paid a lot more or a lot less and you will never really know....

I have gotten to a point at my age (only mid-40's) that I just don't want to play the dealership ******** games and I see right past what they are trying to do. Having bought and sold cars for so many years on top of the research I do before a purchase, they can play these kind of games with someone else that is less knowledgeable. It becomes very frustrating of a process. I understand they want to lowball people so they can get the best deal for them. But when you have proof of what your vehicle is worth for instance, they should be able to at least meet it and even if you are trying to get a few hundred higher they can because for what they end up selling the used car for and money they make off of the interest on the next buyer they've made out. The problem is when I asked him how did you come up with that value of my vehicle, and all he could say is that it was based on market value. Nothing else to back it up.

The funny part is how much this guy was trying to get me to lay out all of the numbers on the table, telling me like it will help the deal go smooth. I pretty much told him I know how that game works and no it works in your favor and not mine, then you can manipulate the numbers.

Like @Stbentoak says, sometimes fully giving out the ground rules can cause a bit of a problem because they know up front that there will be a stalemate for sure. I've even had salesman in the past throw up their arms during a deal and just go get their sales manager to complete it. What they don't get is that when you are willing to walk, the vehicle they have on the lot is not the only one around as there are 100's of dealers within a 100 mile radius you can go to if things don't work out.

 

[Stbentoak]

But when you have proof of what your vehicle is worth for instance, they should be able to at least meet it and even if you are trying to get a few hundred higher they can because for what they end up selling the used car for and money they make off of the interest on the next buyer they've made out. The problem is when I asked him how did you come up with that value of my vehicle, and all he could say is that it was based on market value. Nothing else to back it up.

Places like Carmax, Carvana, and Vroom help keep them honest. Any one of them will give you an estimate that is "fair" and they will write you a check on the spot for it. If my dealer offer is any less then what they will offer... then the answer is obvious...
Also most dealers only really want to give you what your vehicle will bring at auction, no matter how good of shape its in. They may still keep it for their lot if it is a low mileage creampuff, but their basis is always auction price and the vast majority of high mile or more than 3-4 year old ones go to auction. The big Auctions post lists weekly (To Dealers only...) of what used vehicles sold for and they use that as a basis to value what one like yours just went for.

 

[captainzombie]

Places like Carmax, Carvana, and Vroom help keep them honest. Any one of them will give you an estimate that is "fair" and they will write you a check on the spot for it. If my dealer offer is any less then what they will offer... then the answer is obvious...
Also most dealers only really want to give you what your vehicle will bring at auction, no matter how good of shape its in. They may still keep it for their lot if it is a low mileage creampuff, but their basis is always auction price and the vast majority of high mile or more than 3-4 year old ones go to auction. The big Auctions post lists weekly (To Dealers only...) of what used vehicles sold for and they use that as a basis to value what one like yours just went for.

Glad that we do have alternative places like Carmax and Carvana to shake things up a bit with the actual dealerships. I keep forgetting that they do also send a lot of these cars they take in on trade to auctions.

 

[OR VietVet]

I have heard about and read about some horror stories about Vroom, Carvana and Carmax check payments that can be on hold for different times when trying to cash those payment checks.

Sorry, but if I am selling my rig, it is cash only or the trade value at a dealership. I am old and don't trust ANY CHECK payment from whoever.

 

[Thomas Schneider]

For me anyway, in today's world, selling on your own is a bit risky on several fronts, thus I will always trade now (or may try CarMax in the future). I sold my first car, a 1966 Chevelle SS396 to a kid for cash and a week later his dad called me saying I sold him a bad car, wanted his money back because the motor blew up! The motor was running fine when he left the driveway. We all know what happened here... Fortunately, I never heard back from him again. Next time I sold a 1976 Vega that I bought to teach my wife how to drive a manual (which didn't go well and it became "MY" daily driver) and sold it 2 years later for the same price I paid for it!! And finally I sold my 1986 Olds 442 to a kid and had no problems there, so I guess 2 out of three isn't too bad...

My recent experience with the dealer when I purchased my 2021 Tahoe Z71 was typical; KBB had the trade-in Value at a pretty inflated price of $46,431 for my 2016 Yukon Denali with 27,436 miles, which I knew was way high. The dealer started with the offer of $38,900. That's when we started working on each other and it ended up with the trade in being $40,900, which I felt was probably the best I was going to squeeze out of them and was satisfied with it at that point. A few days later they advertised it for $46,000 and after it being on the lot for 2 weeks I'd guess it probably sold for something in the $42,000-$44,000 range. The dealers need to make money and I get that and it's always been worth it to me to avoid all the hassles of selling yourself.

 

[OR VietVet]

Yea, selling a your own vehicle to the public can be a crap shoot. The test drive is iffy at best, even when I get a copy of current valid driver's license and a copy of the current insurance. If I am advertising it I say in the ad that it is cash only-period, I ride in the road test and still get the documentation that I require and I say what my price is. It is not negotiable. That does not mean I may come down when they talk to me but I want that info up front.

 

[captainzombie]

Everyone has been very helpful on these forums which is awesome. You don't get this kind of help anywhere else as I am on a few other GM truck sites.

I found another dealer in another state about 40 miles from me that has an LT with Signature Package and everything that we are looking for at roughly $59K. It was one of the more heavily discounted Tahoe's I have seen online. I called them today to get the scoop and find out why its so low when considering ones around me around roughly in the $60K to $64K range after the discounts from the dealer. He told me that this Tahoe was sitting on the lot for 125 days, since late September. I also asked him about the mileage and it only has 10 miles and then I grilled him a bit to see if he knew anything else as to why its been sitting there this long. He seemed very nice compared to some of the other dealers I've dealt with of late. He even checked to see if there were recalls on it and he was transparent with me, told me that there are 2 recalls with just some lights coming on and that he was taking it right into the shop so they can get those taken care since we might go there tomorrow to check it out.

My wife is interested that we go check it out since its at a bit lower price and it has everything we are looking for. Any reasons to be concerned since it was sitting on there that long.

 

[B520044]

Everyone has been very helpful on these forums which is awesome. You don't get this kind of help anywhere else as I am on a few other GM truck sites.

I found another dealer in another state about 40 miles from me that has an LT with Signature Package and everything that we are looking for at roughly $59K. It was one of the more heavily discounted Tahoe's I have seen online. I called them today to get the scoop and find out why its so low when considering ones around me around roughly in the $60K to $64K range after the discounts from the dealer. He told me that this Tahoe was sitting on the lot for 125 days, since late September. I also asked him about the mileage and it only has 10 miles and then I grilled him a bit to see if he knew anything else as to why its been sitting there this long. He seemed very nice compared to some of the other dealers I've dealt with of late. He even checked to see if there were recalls on it and he was transparent with me, told me that there are 2 recalls with just some lights coming on and that he was taking it right into the shop so they can get those taken care since we might go there tomorrow to check it out.

My wife is interested that we go check it out since its at a bit lower price and it has everything we are looking for. Any reasons to be concerned since it was sitting on there that long.

I know I sound like a broken record on here, but you should wait to purchase. At least get a 2022 model year. Too many bugs; I know some have "so far" had a good experience, but some have not. I do like my Yukon, just wish I would have waited to avoid all the issues. I was one of the first to buy (July) and there was NO content on the forum's yet warning me.

 

[captainzombie]

I know I sound like a broken record on here, but you should wait to purchase. At least get a 2022 model year. Too many bugs; I know some have "so far" had a good experience, but some have not. I do like my Yukon, just wish I would have waited to avoid all the issues. I was one of the first to buy (July) and there was NO content on the forum's yet warning me.

I think many us do appreciate your feedback. I know that it is never really good to buy a first year vehicle with all of the issues that can occur. Some of us like myself, really need to unload this Traverse as it is out of bumper to bumper warranty and I don't want to be spending anymore money on it considering that we want to trade it in. We are planning on getting the extended warranty on the Tahoe so that will help cover any issues that do come up after the factory warranty is out.