BREAKING: GM is officially recalling the L87

[Antonm]

The amount of simply wrong "information" in this thread is amazing.

I guess people as a whole/ society in general, are just getting dumber. Feels like the movie "idiocracy" is more of a documentary film than a comedy as of late.

Its like Luke Wilson's character in the movie talking about Brawndo and it electrolytes, the rest of the people just keep repeating back nonsense thinking they know what they're talking about.

Have fun y'all.
...

 

[zbad55]

Has anyone come to the conclusion that they are hoping for a failed test so you can receive a new engine. I'm still struggling with the fact that a pass will mean you still have an engine with an incorrect machined crank shaft. I know that GM has decided that 0-40W will fill the gaps on the crank that are not to spec but these engines are designed for 0-20W. Are we setting ourselves up for other issues with the higher viscosity oil. As an example these engines use a variable displacement oil pump that is designed for 0-20w not 0-40W, who really knows what other issues may arise with 0-40W

 

[jfoj]

I think any way you look at things it is not good. Knock test passes, 0W40 oil and an extended warranty on the bottom end of the engine or pull and replace the engine which may not be ideal either. Not a fan of shops pulling engines as there are SO many fasteners and connections that could be compromised.

I can tell you this, my 2024 6.2l has an engine build date beyond the "problem window" and I have 2 close neighbors that have 2025 6.2l's and they all had some level of metal in the first oil filter that was removed between 400 and 1200 miles. One of the 2025 is way worse than the other 2025 or my 2024. So I am no so confident that the "newer" engines are 100% free of possible problems?

I will say this until they put me in the grave, the way this 6.2l is configured with the 10 speed transmission, operating on the highway between 1500-1600 RPM and rarely downshifting beyond 8th or 9th year for most people this engine is under severe loading and lugging on the highway and 0W20 is just not adequate for this type of operation with either a "good" engine or a "bad" engine. 0W20 oil along with GM eliminating the coated rod bearings some time back is just a recipe for premature failure.

 

[JTGZ71]

Has anyone come to the conclusion that they are hoping for a failed test so you can receive a new engine. I'm still struggling with the fact that a pass will mean you still have an engine with an incorrect machined crank shaft.

I’m not super excited about either possible outcome. Initially, when this whole thing started, I wanted a new engine because that seemed like the best solution. Now, I’m not sure. I’m also assuming as many others have said on here, that the vast majority of engines will pass the test (likely including mine). I try to remind myself that I have had zero issues with the engine…yet.

 

[tjonesdfw]

Neither outcome is great. I think the oil change is just kicking the can down the road, and as people are posting, there have been failures and metal found in 2025 motors already, so a replacement motor may just be more of the same. Many claim these dealers have the engine swaps down to a science but I beg to differ. I've had engines pulled and either repaired or replaced several times by dealers, twice in a late model F150, and a timing cover reseal that involved removing the entire front cradle in a QX60. All three times, it involved months of repeat dealer visits for lose connections, leaks, buzzing and rattling due to incorrectly torqued fasteners, brackets left hanging, etc.

 

[jfoj]

A 20 hour engine replacement job will likely be over a 3 day window with numerous stops, breaks and interruptions and possibly even a weekend tossed in. Kind of hard to keep track of every specific part, bolt, nut, hose, connector, bracket, wire, especially when it is not your own personal vehicle!

And if the tech tries to get the job done in 14 hours, you can only guess what is happening.

 

[tagexpcom]

I’m not super excited about either possible outcome. Initially, when this whole thing started, I wanted a new engine because that seemed like the best solution. Now, I’m not sure. I’m also assuming as many others have said on here, that the vast majority of engines will pass the test (likely including mine). I try to remind myself that I have had zero issues with the engine…yet.

My 2021 Yukon passed the test a few weeks ago. It has 63K and continues to run smoothly and we tow a 5500lb trailer the most recent 15K miles. For me - I'm thinking that 5% failure (GM say 3% so far) = 95% non-fail. 95% is not bad odds and I'm no longer giving this issue any more worry than I normally have for general issues. Hope this comment helps

 

[JTGZ71]

My 2021 Yukon passed the test a few weeks ago. It has 63K and continues to run smoothly and we tow a 5500lb trailer the most recent 15K miles. For me - I'm thinking that 5% failure (GM say 3% so far) = 95% non-fail. 95% is not bad odds and I'm no longer giving this issue any more worry than I normally have for general issues. Hope this comment helps

That is probably the right way to think about it!

 

[headwest]

I think any way you look at things it is not good. Knock test passes, 0W40 oil and an extended warranty on the bottom end of the engine or pull and replace the engine which may not be ideal either. Not a fan of shops pulling engines as there are SO many fasteners and connections that could be compromised.

I can tell you this, my 2024 6.2l has an engine build date beyond the "problem window" and I have 2 close neighbors that have 2025 6.2l's and they all had some level of metal in the first oil filter that was removed between 400 and 1200 miles. One of the 2025 is way worse than the other 2025 or my 2024. So I am no so confident that the "newer" engines are 100% free of possible problems?

I will say this until they put me in the grave, the way this 6.2l is configured with the 10 speed transmission, operating on the highway between 1500-1600 RPM and rarely downshifting beyond 8th or 9th year for most people this engine is under severe loading and lugging on the highway and 0W20 is just not adequate for this type of operation with either a "good" engine or a "bad" engine. 0W20 oil along with GM eliminating the coated rod bearings some time back is just a recipe for premature failure.

So I wonder if driving in sport mode or manual might keep the revs up a little or use 9 on the highway? Not good for gas mileage but might help solve the problem of running low revs on 0W30?

I going to order a 2026 Denali 6.2 the end of August as I'm hoping among other things to put more distance between my vehicle and the 6.2 recall. GM can't fundamentally change the engine in 2026 but these accounts of debris in the oil at 1,000 miles are disconcerting. Seems they could correct that easily.

GM Authority is reporting some success by GM in reducing warranty claims on some of electronic niggles the past year. That would be a plus when I read some owners here are taking vehicles back to dealer within a month of purchase. I hope the "continuous improvement" mantra is being preached at all the supervisory and line meetings.

 

[jfoj]

I could go on about the 10 speed and how it loads these engines. The 5.3l TCM (Transmission Control Module) is programmed much differently and since the 5.3l has less torque it downshifts much earlier and into lower gears quicker. The 6.2l behaves very differently.

My 2005 6.0l Yukon Denali has a 4 speed, when I take a specific route where I start to climb a gradual grade heading up into the mountains, if I have the cruise control on the 4 speed drops to 3rd gear the engine spins up close to 3000 RPM climbing the initial grade.

The 2024 6.2l Yukon Denali with the 10 speed on cruise control on the same route will probably drop to 9th or 8th gear, both still OD gears, the RPM may increase 100-300 RPM but the 6.2l will pull the grade. Same weight vehicles, geared very similarly but the 10 speed is programmed to pull all the torque it can get out of the 6.2l for fuel economy.

The point is with the 10 speed there is only about 100 RPM difference between 10th and 9th gear. You could ride the highway in 9th gear with a slight hit to the fuel economy, it would keep the DFM from kicking in which is a good thing. But also understand the TCM is still programmed to hold the gears as long as possible and suck every Ft/Lb of torque out of the engine in the name of fuel economy. So even if you try to keep the RPM's up, the TCM will fight you.

Best just to run either 5W30 or 0W40 engine oil, change the oil at about 50% of the OLM and drive the vehicle. This is the best you can do without tearing into the engine to replace the rod bearings with coated rod bearings but in either case I would never run 0W20 in one of these trucks and if you tow or pull heavy loads, definitely do not run 0W20.

There will be plenty of differing opinions, but most of these folks have not researched the load factor on the rod bearings and the oil film strength needed to protect the bearings and crankshaft. This is irrelevant of all the debris floating around in the majority if these engines crankcases. Unfortunately I have not found anyone with a new 5.3l to open up the first oil filter to see if the 5.3ls are significantly cleaner than the 6.2ls.

I know I used to build high performances V8's from the 60's and 70's in my garage many years ago and we tried to be as clean as we could and never had any sort of problems like these new engines being built in a supposedly clean assembly line. We used to torture the hell out of these engines. Ford 289's, Boss 302's, 351W, 390's, 428's. Chevy small and big blocks, Oldsmobile and Buick 455's, Mopar 440's. Many of these engines had 12.5 compression, solid lifter long duration camshafts, some had 2-4 barrel set ups. Street and track raced these things all day long never a failure.

 

[tagexpcom]

I know I used to build high performances V8's from the 60's and 70's in my garage many years ago and we tried to be as clean as we could and never had any sort of problems like these new engines being built in a supposedly clean assembly line. We used to torture the hell out of these engines. Ford 289's, Boss 302's, 351W, 390's, 428's. Chevy small and big blocks, Oldsmobile and Buick 455's, Mopar 440's. Many of these engines had 12.5 compression, solid lifter long duration camshafts, some had 2-4 barrel set ups. Street and track raced these things all day long never a failure.

Brought back memories....
In my (dumb) youth, with no experience, I rebuilt a 302 for my custom 67 Mustang w/4-speed on the porch of my single-wide trailer. While disassembling I wedged a pry bar into the crankshaft to hold it steady to get the front bolt off and put a noticeable crease/dent/scratch on the smooth surface where the piston rod connects! Stupid!! On top of that, I mowed the lawn and sprayed grass all over the open block. Being dirt poor all I could do was clean off the grass and manually emery-cloth the scratch 'a bit' and put it all back together. But... it ran for several years with a lead foot and sold it in good working condition.

I presume engines are 'more precise engineering' these days but perhaps less tolerant?

 

[vcode]

I could go on about the 10 speed and how it loads these engines. The 5.3l TCM (Transmission Control Module) is programmed much differently and since the 5.3l has less torque it downshifts much earlier and into lower gears quicker. The 6.2l behaves very differently.

My 2005 6.0l Yukon Denali has a 4 speed, when I take a specific route where I start to climb a gradual grade heading up into the mountains, if I have the cruise control on the 4 speed drops to 3rd gear the engine spins up close to 3000 RPM climbing the initial grade.

The 2024 6.2l Yukon Denali with the 10 speed on cruise control on the same route will probably drop to 9th or 8th gear, both still OD gears, the RPM may increase 100-300 RPM but the 6.2l will pull the grade. Same weight vehicles, geared very similarly but the 10 speed is programmed to pull all the torque it can get out of the 6.2l for fuel economy.

The point is with the 10 speed there is only about 100 RPM difference between 10th and 9th gear. You could ride the highway in 9th gear with a slight hit to the fuel economy, it would keep the DFM from kicking in which is a good thing. But also understand the TCM is still programmed to hold the gears as long as possible and suck every Ft/Lb of torque out of the engine in the name of fuel economy. So even if you try to keep the RPM's up, the TCM will fight you.

Best just to run either 5W30 or 0W40 engine oil, change the oil at about 50% of the OLM and drive the vehicle. This is the best you can do without tearing into the engine to replace the rod bearings with coated rod bearings but in either case I would never run 0W20 in one of these trucks and if you tow or pull heavy loads, definitely do not run 0W20.

There will be plenty of differing opinions, but most of these folks have not researched the load factor on the rod bearings and the oil film strength needed to protect the bearings and crankshaft. This is irrelevant of all the debris floating around in the majority if these engines crankcases. Unfortunately I have not found anyone with a new 5.3l to open up the first oil filter to see if the 5.3ls are significantly cleaner than the 6.2ls.

I know I used to build high performances V8's from the 60's and 70's in my garage many years ago and we tried to be as clean as we could and never had any sort of problems like these new engines being built in a supposedly clean assembly line. We used to torture the hell out of these engines. Ford 289's, Boss 302's, 351W, 390's, 428's. Chevy small and big blocks, Oldsmobile and Buick 455's, Mopar 440's. Many of these engines had 12.5 compression, solid lifter long duration camshafts, some had 2-4 barrel set ups. Street and track raced these things all day long never a failure.

GM has been running the 6.2L/10 speed/0W20 combo for 8 years now. Based on 13.6K miles per year, the first 3 years of production have 80-110K miles on them now. How come we are not seeing tons of issues with these engines?

 

[zbad55]

"When it comes to determining whether an engine replacement is or isn’t needed, a Cadillac tech will perform an inspection and verify the serial number on the left-hand cylinder head. This information is used to determine the build date of the engine. Replacement is mandatory for all engines produced before the 183rd build day in 2024

This is an excerpt from a column about the Cadilac L87 recall I just seen on Google. Never seen a statement like this about mandatory replacement due to the build date, is this legit,

 

[headwest]

It was considered a life safety issue with some engines failing on busy roads, stranding owners, etc. At the time GM said dealers couldn't market the 6.2s they had on hand and if your truck didn't pass the test they would be required to impound it. I think some of this has loosened up a bit and now we hear of some failures after that date. The date being when GM presumably changed the manufacturing process. Many on here have more insights.

 

[cornicekurt]

My understanding from multiple GM dealer folks is that the "extended warranty" everyone is referring to is only "special coverage" and what you'll receive is ONLY related to the bottom end of the engine, i.e. if it fails again for the same reason as the recall, you are covered for 10 years, 150K from your in service date for THAT specific type of failure. Contrary to what many claim, it's not a full coverage warranty on the vehicle, the powertrain or even the whole engine itself. For example, if you have lifter failure after the recall... even though you have the special coverage for the lower end, the lifter failure would still be considered an uncovered repair that you would be responsible for. See attached special coverage bulletin where GM even explicitly states that "valvetrain or other top end issues" are NOT COVERED.

My concern is this entire engine was engineered to run on 0-20. Changing the oil cap doesn’t suddenly equate to reengineering the motor.

 

[jfoj]

GM has been running the 6.2L/10 speed/0W20 combo for 8 years now. Based on 13.6K miles per year, the first 3 years of production have 80-110K miles on them now. How come we are not seeing tons of issues with these engines?

vcode,

You clearly do not understand the situation and bearing loading issues at play here. While billions of vehicles in your mind run 0W20 without issue so therefore it is fine for the 6.2l configured in these large SUV is also adequate, it is not. Engine reliability and longevity take a far back seat to fuel economy due to requirements the auto manufactures need to meet.

0W20 was formulated for 2 primary reasons, increase fuel economy and probably as a side benefit reduced parasitic loading on the engines so they will provide better fuel economy and will put out more power due to the lower parasitic oil drag. BUT, this comes at a cost and there are LIMITS at to the benefits and there is a reduction in safety margin for engine protection and in higher loading situations 0W20 is not sufficient.

There are so many variables at play here they cannot all be accounted for. Your lighter weight mid size sedans with 4 and 6 cylinders, 0W20 may be fine, but for these 6000 lb bricks its not.

You also have no history of the V8 early failures beyond warranty, many people do not even speak up about these issues, often they either pay for the repair or trade the vehicle in and move on.

There clearly were more problems for the 6.2l from 2021-2025 due to manufacturing issues. But if these engines were using something other than 0W20 there would be far fewer failures. Look what GM is doing on the recall.

A lot of things have changed, these engines are NOT designed for 0W20 oil, if they were, they would still be using polymer coated rod bearings, they still use polymer coated main bearings, the oil pump would be like the current generation L84 5.3l engine with is a variable displacement SINGLE stage variable displacement oil pump, unlike the stupid DUAL stage variable displacement oil pump that the L87 6.2l is still using, again due to fuel economy, not engine reliability and longevity. The DUAL stage oil pumps do not command the increase in oil pressure until around 3000 RPM where these engines rarely operate unless accelerating on to an on ramp at a pretty brisk pace or passing at a pretty good rate on the highway. The 5.3l benefits from the SINGLE stage oil pump and has more oil pressure at lower RPM then when compared to the 6.2l with the DUAL stage oil pump.

If you would perform the calculations for bearing loading the why the 5.3l and 6.2l operate in these large SUV's you would see 0W20 is marginal at best on the 5.3l and really not adequate for the 6.2l with regard to oil shear. The 5.3l would be far better off running at least 5W30 and the 6.2l is better off running 0W40.

If GM would go back to the polymer coated rod bearings and SINGLE stage variable displacement oil pump, 0W20 would work better for the 6.2l but without a lot of testing who knows by how much of a margin.

While bearing materials have changed quite some time ago, lead and even copper has been pulled out of many of the newer bearings. Most are now harder Bi-metal Aluminum bearings which are far less forgiving than the older tri-metal copper/lead/tin bearings. The Bi-metal aluminum bearings tend to shed or peel like an onion when overloaded and/or oil starved, again very little margin for error. This is why some of the coated bearings are far superior for heaving loading and thin oil. But the real problems is the ultra thin oils are being used in applications where they are not ideal.

Do what you want, I am running 0W40 oil with a Range DFM and Auto Stop/Start delete unit and consistently getting almost 19 MPG on the highway driving hard. Speeds often close to 80 MPH. When I slow down and drive easier I have seen my fuel economy hit over 21 MPG on the highway. My lifetime fuel economy on the truck is 17.6 MPG which includes all in town/city and highway driving. So I do not see any significant hit in fuel economy with the way my vehicle is currently configure.

Again, anyone running 0W20 on the 6.2l is not doing their engine any favors.

 

[headwest]

Thanks for getting in to that. Do we know what oil GM will run in the 2026 6.2s?

 

[jfoj]

Assume GM will try to get their next generation V8 in the 2026 if they can pull it off. No thanks for me for the first few years of a brand new engine, regardless of how much money and time they invested in it. Too much software reliability modeling these days, you put unrealistic or wrong assumptions in the model, you get overly optimistic results. My guess is the new engine will run 0W8 oil.

 

[jfoj]

It just won't stop! It will sux when he learns about the 10L1000 transmission problems!


I’m Done With My Chevy Silverado RST Rocky Ridge, 15K In, and I’m Putting In My 3rd Motor, I Just Picked Up This Bad Boy, a 2024 GMC Denali 3500 Ultimate | Torque News https://share.google/bV47la2aul16cHZC1

 

[blanchard7684]

vcode,

You clear do not understand the situation and bearing loading issues at play here. While billions of vehicles in your mind run 0W20 without issue so therefore it is fine for the 6.2l configured in these large SUV is also adequate, it is not. Engine reliability and longevity take a far back seat to fuel economy due to requirements the auto manufactures need to meet.

0W20 was formulated for 2 primary reasons, increase fuel economy and probably as a side benefit reduced parasitic loading on the engines so they will provide better fuel economy and will put out more power due to the lower parasitic oil drag. BUT, this comes at a cost and there are LIMITS at to the benefits and there is a reduction in safety margin for engine protection and in higher loading situations 0W20 is not sufficient.

Put another way: 0w40 provides maximum bearing load capacity. 0w20 removes this safety margin to the extent that a small manufacturing defect becomes an issue.