BREAKING: GM is officially recalling the L87

[StephenPT]

Pretty good explanation of the Stribeck Curve and why GM is recommending 0W-40 for 6.2 engines which have improper surface finish on the crankshaft journals.

- start watching at the 4:30 mark.

 

[vcode]

Pretty good explanation of the Stribeck Curve and why GM is recommending 0W-40 for 6.2 engines which have improper surface finish on the crankshaft journals.

- start watching at the 4:30 mark.

Oh boy, where is my popcorn???

 

[Lonny]

I have a question. Given that a number of folks in this chat have had two or three engine replacements going into a single vehicle - does this suggest that there is an additional problem elsewhere in the powertrain?

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

I have a question. Given that a number of folks in this chat have had two or three engine replacements going into a single vehicle - does this suggest that there is an additional problem elsewhere in the powertrain?

There were a couple people who have been on the forum who have had 2 engines replaced, and another gentleman who had 2 engines blow, then GM bought his back, and his replacement vehicle engine blew.

Now statistics says, the probability of something happening more than once is simply the product of the event happening once.

So, if the fail rate is 3%, and a single person had it happen 3 times, the probability of that happening is:

P = 0.03 x 0.03 x 0.03
P = 0.000027 = 27/1,000,000

Time for that guy to buy a lottery ticket, or there was something about his driving or vehicle loading that exacerbated the failure.

 

[jfoj]

There were a couple people who have been on the forum who have had 2 engines replaced, and another gentleman who had 2 engines blow, then GM bought his back, and his replacement vehicle engine blew.

Now statistics says, the probability of something happening more than once is simply the product of the event happening once.

So, if the fail rate is 3%, and a single person had it happen 3 times, the probability of that happening is:

P = 0.03 x 0.03 x 0.03
P = 0.000027 = 27/1,000,000

Time for that guy to buy a lottery ticket, or there was something about his driving or vehicle loading that exacerbated the failure.

Some sources are claiming the engine failure rate is much closer to 5%, and this could be understated/under reported. I believe the 3% figure everyone keeps stating is the value that GM stated was loss of propulsion. Somewhat creative in their statement of engine failures. I believe I have only read/heard about as many as I can count on 1 hand that did not fail at highway speed, I am sure there may be more, but this is the number I have discovered with a lot of reading and research.

Nearly 30,000 GM V8s Had Already Failed Before They Were Recalled: Internal Docs

That's a lot of broken V8s.

www.thedrive.com

As I mentioned before it appeared based on posts all across the Interwebs, that the 2023-2024 model year failures were typically earlier in mileage than earlier builds. Many of the 2023-2024 models did not even get to their first oil change before failure and the replacement engines were not any better, if not worse, some did not even make it 500-1000 before a replacement failed. Some almost made it to the first or second oil change and the replacement failed.

@Lonny

To the question about other problems within the powertrain, unfortunately the answer is there are other problems. The transmission valve bodies are a problem and they will likely show up more frequently in the 2024-2025 models and the problem shows up at the transmission fluid temperature increased. I expect the 2024-2025 models will be recalled like the earlier models sometime in the next 12-18 months.

Then there are problems with the DFM system, typically valve lifters either being stuck collapsed or the needle bearings in the roller end of the lifter fail and often take the camshaft out with the lifter(s). The issue is we have all been hyper focused on the engine failures and with some engines being replaced they are still pretty low on mileage. Time will tell if the lifter/camshaft problems are more limited with the later builds and if GM did something to improve the lifter/camshaft reliability. I feel more frequent oil changes will hopefully reduce the possibility of lifter/camshaft problems. Maintenance is about the only variable you can control on most vehicles so more frequent oil changes may help reduce the failure rate.

 

[Marky Dissod]

... or there was something about his driving, or (his) vehicle loading that exacerbated the failure ...

...
OR
there's something about what GM did, or failed to do, with an unusually high number of L87s.

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

...
OR
there's something about what GM did, or failed to do, with an unusually high number of L87s.

Well, that is presumably covered by the recall and the predicted 3% fail rate...

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

Then there are problems with the DFM system, typically valve lifters either being stuck collapsed or the needle bearings in the roller end of the lifter fail and often take the camshaft out with the lifter(s). The issue is we have all been hyper focused on the engine failures and with some engines being replaced they are still pretty low on mileage. Time will tell if the lifter/camshaft problems are more limited with the later builds and if GM did something to improve the lifter/camshaft reliability. I feel more frequent oil changes will hopefully reduce the possibility of lifter/camshaft problems. Maintenance is about the only variable you can control on most vehicles so more frequent oil changes may help reduce the failure rate.

Honestly, haven't heard a lot of lifter failure noise here on the forum since the early 2021 timeframe...we will see as more folks get out to the neighborhood of 100k, but that particular issue seems really quiet lately.

 

[jfoj]

I believe the lifter/cam failures have been overshadowed by the engine failures and the 2023-2024 models as a whole may not have accumulated the mileage.

On average I have been using my 2024 about 1000 miles a month, which for some people is not out of the ordinary. I also expect that beyond the powertrain warranty there are fewer people speaking up.

Hopefully the valve lifter problems have been reduced, but with DFM there are more lifters with failure potential when compared to AFM.

We shall see what happens.

 

[mummer43]

I got my oil changed today at the dealer and they said they didn't receive their drum of 0W40 oil yet so they had to put 0W20 in my Yukon. I was thinking of waiting, but I was due for an oil change and didn't want to push my luck.

 

[OR VietVet]

I got my oil changed today at the dealer and they said they didn't receive their drum of 0W40 oil yet so they had to put 0W20 in my Yukon. I was thinking of waiting, but I was due for an oil change and didn't want to push my luck.

I would have had them document that conversation on your paperwork.

 

[2017sltXL]

Oh boy, where is my popcorn???

I thought the exact same thing. No mention of why this guy is not comparing IDENTICAL oils across different weights. Different add packs for starters. Mobil 1 ESP as an example, has one of the best add packs out there and is actually rated for diesel engines.
Then no mention of the fact DI engines are harder on oil over time due to fuel dilution. That 0W20 is sheared down to closer to an 0W10 by the time you reach the OCI of 5000 miles, so what about all those that go past that?
Factory fill for the engines like the LT2 Vette is 0W40, and granted it's making 100 more hp stock, but clearances are the same.
Not that long ago it was 5W30, so there's that.
We can thank CARB and the EPA for all this BS in the efforts to eek out another mpg or two, and decrease reliability in the process.
On another note, the JD Power awards mentioned in this video are a joke that write themselves.
I remember when Wards had the 6.0 Powerstroke diesel as one of the top 10 engines for 2003, THE same year they were introduced(well technically 2003.5) in the Super Duty, and what a hoot that ended up being. I know Ford mastertechs that ended up quitting their jobs due to that whole debacle.
Having worked on my share of those and bullet proofed more than I care to remember, the cheapest mod was going to a good 5W40 synthetic diesel rated oil.
They remind me in some ways of these L83's thru the current models, once they have all the crap they don't need removed they are a great engine.

 

[jfoj]

0W40 is going to be in short supply for a while. Use 5W30 if you cannot get 0W40.

GM is going to need 1,000,000 gallons of 0W40, not sure how quickly the suppliers can ramp up.

 

[jfoj]

Just confirmed based on the GM Special Coverage bulletin N252494003 that for the 10 year/150,000 warranty extension coverage, these are a few of the requirements and limitations.

The inspected per the Recall must be completed.

"If the vehicle has a valvetrain or other top end issue, it is NOT COVERED under this special coverage."

Only bottom end engine problems will be covered for 10 years/150,000 miles.

Warranty coverage is regardless of ownership, warranty is extended to any owner of the vehicle within the 10 years/150,000 miles

 

[jfoj]

 

[DuraYuk]

Why would a tech quit over warranty work? Lol

 

[2017sltXL]

The two I knew personally were in thier late 50's at the time, so maybe that had some bearing on their decisions? The warranty rates were paltry at best.
When all you do is work on one engine day in and day out, with customers mad at you because their farm truck is down, it can wear a fellow down over time.
I'm not sure how many folks here would remember that whole fiasco but it was not pretty.

 

[Z15]

Long thread, don't know is this was posted so here goes.........

 

[OR VietVet]

Why would a tech quit over warranty work? Lol

Because even dealership techs want to accomplish something each day and feel good about it. Doing the same crap over and over makes a guy/girl wonder, "Why am I doing this and not getting anywhere"?

 

[DuraYuk]

Because even dealership techs want to accomplish something each day and feel good about it. Doing the same crap over and over makes a guy/girl wonder, "Why am I doing this and not getting anywhere"?

That makes no sense. Everyone likes money lol. Repetition is what makes you money as a dealer tech. Especially warranty work.