10L80 - filled transmission at wrong temp???

[jyi786]

Just paid for a subscription to Alldata DIY...and I think I might have made a pretty bad mistake.

When I did a transmission fluid change a few months ago on my 2019 Cadillac Escalade ESV with the 10L80 MF6 transmission, I used instructions for the 10L80 which called for checking transmission fluid at between 75-80C (167-176F). However, Alldata says to check it at between 95-100C (203-212F). Which means my trans was probably overfilled....

How badly did I screw up? I'm having issues, getting a very odd vibration/shimmy when feathering the throttle when the torque converter goes into lockup. Vibrates the entire truck like mad until I either mash the throttle forcing an upshift, or take my foot off the throttle.

 

[jyi786]

Additionally, the Alldata says to use the checkplug for checking the fluid level. Is there a reason why even though it should be overfilled, nothing comes out of the check tube at the bottom? It does, however, when I remove the other fill side cap at the upper rear left of the transmission.

 

[Rygrego]

You're fine. Even at the difference in temp the expansion would be negligible.

 

[BlaineBug]

Have you dropped the pan and replaced the filter? Are you using the correct fluid for your transmission as well? The 10 speed does not use the same fluid as the 6 speed as far as I am aware, and I'm not sure how the 8 speed relates. I have read about a "revised" fluid to ease or eliminate shuddering but that may only apply to the 8 speed transmissions - once again I am no expert, only an avid reader and automotive enthusiast. I also inspect carnage for submitted warranty claims in my area.

I was under the impression that the majority of torque converter failures were 2015-2016 model years (2014 for the trucks, too, maybe?) but then I've talked to various technicians and have read a variety of forum posts that say even with the "revised" torque converter that the clutch packs are still far too weak. I also don't know if your 10 speed uses the same torque converter as the 8 and 6 speed transmissions as well.

 

[jyi786]

Have you dropped the pan and replaced the filter? Are you using the correct fluid for your transmission as well? The 10 speed does not use the same fluid as the 6 speed as far as I am aware, and I'm not sure how the 8 speed relates. I have read about a "revised" fluid to ease or eliminate shuddering but that may only apply to the 8 speed transmissions - once again I am no expert, only an avid reader and automotive enthusiast. I also inspect carnage for submitted warranty claims in my area.

I was under the impression that the majority of torque converter failures were 2015-2016 model years (2014 for the trucks, too, maybe?) but then I've talked to various technicians and have read a variety of forum posts that say even with the "revised" torque converter that the clutch packs are still far too weak. I also don't know if your 10 speed uses the same torque converter as the 8 and 6 speed transmissions as well.

Yep. In my thread from a few months back, I detailed all of it. In short, I dropped the pan, changed the filter, inspected the magnet, refilled, and then transfused with brand new fluid.

For fluid, I'm using exactly what my manual calls for: AC Delco ULV ATF P/N: 10-4107 (19352619).

The ONLY thing I can possibly think of is that I underfilled it. No fluid comes out of the check plug when I open it, even with the transmission at 176F.

I bought 20qts more, and will do a complete transfusion again this weekend. Since I already have a pump, I also bought the little adapter that hooks up to the check plug port so that I can fill it from there without having to open the case plug, since I do not think that is the right way to do it. Alldata says to use the check plug port. I'll overfill and then let it drain, and at the proper temperature this time (203-212F).

 

[B-train]

Yep. In my thread from a few months back, I detailed all of it. In short, I dropped the pan, changed the filter, inspected the magnet, refilled, and then transfused with brand new fluid.

For fluid, I'm using exactly what my manual calls for: AC Delco ULV ATF P/N: 10-4107 (19352619).

The ONLY thing I can possibly think of is that I underfilled it. No fluid comes out of the check plug when I open it, even with the transmission at 176F.

I bought 20qts more, and will do a complete transfusion again this weekend. Since I already have a pump, I also bought the little adapter that hooks up to the check plug port so that I can fill it from there without having to open the case plug, since I do not think that is the right way to do it. Alldata says to use the check plug port. I'll overfill and then let it drain, and at the proper temperature this time (203-212F).

It's not full if the temp is 176 and nothing comes out. Granted, nothing should come gushing out, but I would expect a dribble or 2. Try adding some fluid, drive it and then pull the plug on a level surface with the engine running. Is that how you initially did it?

 

[jyi786]

It's not full if the temp is 176 and nothing comes out. Granted, nothing should come gushing out, but I would expect a dribble or 2. Try adding some fluid, drive it and then pull the plug on a level surface with the engine running. Is that how you initially did it?

Nothing came out. A drip maybe? But not what the manual states, which should be steady drips (not a stream).

When I did this the first time, I was on a level surface, with the engine running. I suspect it's not filled properly because I used the case plug hole, which from my research now indicates that it's below the top of the fill standpipe.

 

[BlaineBug]

It's not full if the temp is 176 and nothing comes out. Granted, nothing should come gushing out, but I would expect a dribble or 2. Try adding some fluid, drive it and then pull the plug on a level surface with the engine running. Is that how you initially did it?

I concur.

 

[B-train]

I believe there is a plug on the passenger side behind the heat shield. It's where a dipstick WOULD go if they weren't so cheap. At least on the 8 speed it's that way and from my friend at GM, that's the driftni got in casual conversation.

Remove the heat shield and feel around for a rubber plug towards the front of the trans. Or use a mirror and a light. Maybe the 10 speed is different, but that is the info I know. Hope it helps, props for tackling it on your own!

 

[jyi786]

I believe there is a plug on the passenger side behind the heat shield. It's where a dipstick WOULD go if they weren't so cheap. At least on the 8 speed it's that way and from my friend at GM, that's the driftni got in casual conversation.

Remove the heat shield and feel around for a rubber plug towards the front of the trans. Or use a mirror and a light. Maybe the 10 speed is different, but that is the info I know. Hope it helps, props for tackling it on your own!

The 10 speed is different. It's a case plug with an Allen head. It is indeed behind the heatshield. That's what I used to drain (with my pump) and then refill. Again, I'm certain now that it's not as high as the standpipe, so I suspect the transmission isn't properly filled.

10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System

The new Ford and GM 10-speed transmission also has a newly developed filter and filtering system.

www.transmissiondigest.com

 

[jyi786]

Update #2: Changed the transmission mount and this time, followed the procedure according to Alldata to properly check fill level.

With the truck completely off and the transmission cold, I just wanted to chance it and see exactly how much fluid would come out, if any, if I opened the check plug. According to the manual, it's supposed to come gushing out. Well, nothing came out. So I proceeded to pump the transmission with 3 quarts of fresh ULV ATF (I actually bought the special GM adapter that lets you attach it to the check plug hole), then set about raising the transmission fluid temp to 212F, which is what the Alldata procedure called for.

When I got the transmission to 212F, I then opened the check plug, and voila: fluid gushed out. About 2.25 quarts came out before it slowed to a steady fast drip, at which point I closed it and buttoned everything up.

I know that there is a difference between how much fluid was actually in there when cold vs hot, so I'm not exactly sure that even though I put in 3 quarts, the difference that came out was actually what was missing from the transmission: about .75 quarts.

Is being low .75 quarts enough to cause the 10L80 transmission to shudder? My test drive seemed to indicate that everything was good, but I will only be able to tell tomorrow when the transmission is cold.

 

[Seamus]

I did the same change a few weeks ago and used the check plug not the tube and did it at 167 degrees, maybe a little hotter. But not 212. I have not one issue. I doubt the .75 caused a shudder. How many miles on your truck? The 10 speeds have been very robust compared to 8 speeds that had the shudder from TC. I do know someone with a 2020 10 speed that had a TC fail at 45K. Unusual.

 

[jyi786]

I did the same change a few weeks ago and used the check plug not the tube and did it at 167 degrees, maybe a little hotter. But not 212. I have not one issue. I doubt the .75 caused a shudder. How many miles on your truck? The 10 speeds have been very robust compared to 8 speeds that had the shudder from TC. I do know someone with a 2020 10 speed that had a TC fail at 45K. Unusual.

I initially did it at 167F as well. I learned that it was wrong. My truck has 117K miles.

 

[BlaineBug]

For those with transmission cooler bypass and/or the revised transmission cooler thermostat, how are you guys getting it all of the way up to 212 degrees Fahrenheit? That seems way hot.

 

[jyi786]

Power torquing did the job for me yesterday in getting it up to temp. Took a while though.

And I drove it today. Shudders much less, but still slightly there, and only when transmission is cold.

 

[BlaineBug]

Power torquing did the job for me yesterday in getting it up to temp. Took a while though.

And I drove it today. Shudders much less, but still slightly there, and only when transmission is cold.

If you have the capability to buy or borrow a scan tool which can show you torque converter slip speed you may want to check and see what is going on simultaneously as you experience the shudder.

 

[Seamus]

Wouldnt it expand more at a hotter temperature?? Meaning at 167 and dripping out its overfilled-- not underfilled because it needs to fully expand at 212 then let it out plug. When it cools it will be underfilled and not come out the drain plug because its not expanded. It will only come out the plug at that temp and be correct.
I like science but hotter expands more not less. Cold contracts.

In essence I may be slightly overfilled at 167 not underfilled.

Thoughts

 

[Seamus]

To prove this theory I may drive my truck up on the lift hot, get it to 212 and i bet a little comes out the plug....and then this will be correct.

 

[jyi786]

Whatever the case may be, Alldata called for it at 212F, so that's what I did. I know that by doing it at 167F potentially introduced this issue, as I never had it before.

 

[15burban]

What does your trans temp normally run at? I'm still trying to wrap my head around why they would want you to check it at such a higher temperature then what it normally runs at. Since I'm assuming it's normal temp is below 212.