New guy, not an owner yet, looking for some buying advice...

[Martinjmpr]

So as I said above, I'm looking for some advice and direction. I'll apologize in advance for a somewhat long and rambling first post.

Here's my situation: My current vehicle is a 2007 Toyota 4runner, SR5, V6 4x4. Great vehicle, exactly what I wanted when I bought in 2012.

Then late last year wife and I bought a bigger travel trailer (we had a small Teardrop before.) Our new trailer is about 2,000lbs and rather tall (It's a T@B Clamshell, if you know what those are.)

We've taken a number of trips with it, in fact 8 this year, with the 4runner as my tow vehicle, including a 5200 mile trip that took us through 13 states and one Canadian province (Ontario). Great trip, but it reinforced to me that I need to consider a more suitable tow vehicle.

The specific issues that are affecting me that have me looking at getting a bigger truck are:

* Marginal towing power, especially when crossing mountain passes (we live in Colorado so we go over high roads a lot.)

* Short wheelbase makes for a less comfortable ride

* MPG is abysmal (on the order of 10-12 MPG) when pulling the trailer, and combined with the 4runner's 23 gallon tank, range between fuelups is ~ 200 miles.

Technically, the 4runner is rated to pull 5,000lbs but it feels overtaxed even with 2k and honestly, I like to be a little over cautious with my tow vehicle - my thought is "it's better to have too much capability than too little."

The 4runner is the perfect vehicle for the kind of driving I USED to do, which included not only towing but also mild off-roading where the short wheelbase and good ground clearance were benefits.

But I've come to the realization that that isn't how I use my truck anymore. Most of the time it's pulling the trailer on a highway, or hauling my family around town on snowy days.

Anyway, after all this I came to the conclusion that I needed something that was longer in wheelbase and had a V8 engine to pull the trailer and do all the other duties I need a truck to do. Because of my need to haul passengers and also fit in my garage, it has to be an SUV, not a pickup (though an Avalanche would actually work for me, too.)

I did hours of research on line of the "big 4" contenders: The various GM SUVs (I lump Chevy and GMC together since they're more or less identical), Ford (expedition), Nissan (Armada) and Toyota (Sequoia.)

Toyota got nixed because the newer Sequoias are well out of my price range. I also think they're ugly.

Fords got dropped because of problems with the 5.4 motor. I also don't care for independent rear suspension on an SUV.

The Nissan has spotty reliability and quality reports and, again, IRS that I don't like.

So it seems like no matter what I look at, I keep coming back to GM. Initially I had thought the Tahoe/Yukon would be best for me, but the more I look into it, the more I'm thinking either Suburban or Avalanche.

The main thing I like about the Suburban is that for a "penalty" of around 1 MPG it would give me a longer wheelbase, 2 feet more storage and 5 gallons more in the tank.

I haven't gotten to the stage of test driving yet and probably won't until the end of the year at the earliest. I don't plan on selling the 4runner until the end of camping season anyway (which for us will be Thanksgiving week.)

OK, so again, sorry for the long preamble, but here are my questions:

I can afford a new vehicle but I hate the idea of making payments. When I sell the 4runner I'll potentially have anywhere between $12k and $15k and from what I've seen there are quite a few GMT800 (2000-2006) SUVs (Tahoes, Suburbans, Yukons and Yukon XLs) in that price range. Most have anywhere between 110,000 - 130,000 miles.

My question is, what is the likelihood that one of these SUVs would be reasonably trouble free? I understand anything mechanical can break, but I'm talking about major components like engines, transmissions, T-cases, and so on.

I've seen some high mileage (210k+) GM SUVs going for as little as $3500 on local ads but that just makes me think it's going to have some major problems fairly soon. I don't mind paying more for a vehicle that is likely to last longer, in fact I would prefer that to gambling since it looks like I'll be putting something like 16k/year on any vehicle I get, most of that pulling a trailer.

Are there any known issues with the drivetrain or other components in, say, the 2004 - 2006 Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban/XL? Any troubling or worrisome things to look for when I'm shopping?

Finally, does this all sound reasonable or should I bite the bullet and pay more $$ for a newer vehicle? I've heard about problems with the AFM in the early GMT-900 series (2007-14) trucks but I don't know if it's been exaggerated by the internet. I generally prefer to buy a later model year in a given series or generation just because I figure the manufacturer has got all the bugs worked out by then, hence my thinking that an 05 or 06 would be my best bet.

Thanks in advance for any help the forum can provide!

 

[ezdaar]

Get a 06 2500 Burban, Bolt a Tvs 1900 blower on it. Profit from indestructible drivetrain, Rock solid engine and ridiculous towing power.
Leave it bone stock other than the blower (maybe a catback) and a moderate tune.
You will love it.

Don't be afraid of a 100-150k mile 2500. That's nothing for them. Obviously the lower the better but I personally would look to body and interior condition before fretting over engine and drive train vs cost of vehicle.

Its FAR cheaper to engine/trans swap then it is to fix a tore up interior or body.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Whoops, my bad, I guess I should have read the "thinking of buying" thread first. Looks like a lot of my questions were answered.

Ezdaar, not sure if you were serious but a 2500 would be way overkill for me. Hell there are people who pull these small trailers with 4 cyl Subarus. Now I wouldn't do that, but lots of folks do.

From what I'm getting reading this, a 2004 - 2006 with 100k - 130k should have quite a bit of usable service life, right?

I do see a lot of them around, they're quite common in Colorado.

How well does the "automatic 4wd" work on intermittently icy or snowy roads?

Oh, and does the Z71 package normally include a locker? Or is it mostly just skid plates?

 

[RAWVORTEC]

I will say, my mom has owned a 2006 suburban 4wd LT for 9 years now. She has 275k miles and the thing is great. I will say, the interior is worn(n0 ripped seats), but theres just signs of wear on panels. But as far as a the drivetrain, its been unstoppable. She drives it everyday around town and then they'll take it all over the place for vacations. It gets 19mpg on the highway and 16 in town. It rides smooth and is always really comfortable as far as leg/head room. I just bought a 2003 yukon xl with 223k miles with a tranny that had been replaced last year. I expect to get 300k. The only issue I have is a small rust spot below the rear passenger door that the size of a quarter, and thats it. The engine runs great, power everything works. I also get 19 highway and 16 city with a stock 225k miles engine! I love it. You won't be changing your mind, so welcome to the family!

 

[ezdaar]

Its not overkill. the Primary reason I mentioned the 2500 is the Transmission..
The 2500 has the 4L80 which is a beast in stock form.
While the little 1500 has the 4L60 which is a giant pile of steaming rhino poop.

The 4L60 grenades while just daily driving. Now start towing with it in a big SUV and it ***** the bed fast.

So, I said 2500 so you wouldn't ever have any problems and come back wanting to put my head on a pike.

 

[Brake_L8]

Do what I did. I tow a racecar on a steel 18' trailer and use a 2005 Yukon Denali for the job. Total weight that I pull is ~5k lbs and I bring spare wheels/tires and a ton of tools and crap in the back of the truck, too.

Benefits of a Denali (get the XL if you want Suburban length - keeping in mind the length difference is all behind the third row for storage):

• 6.0L versus the 5.3L in everything else including Avalanche. If you get the 2005-2006, you get more HP and torque compared to the 2003-2004. 335 hp and 385 tq.
• 4L65e transmission versus 4L60e. The "65" is slightly beefed up compared to the 60 - it's not a 4L80 but as you said, you don't need a 3/4-ton truck to pull what you're pulling.
• AWD versus 4WD with selectable low range. This is nice for me as towing in the rain and snow, it's easy grip off the line if I need it. The AWD has been helpful when I needed to park my trailer (backing it in) in a snowstorm. No buttons to fuss with. The front diffs allegedly need rebuilding every 100k or so, but mine isn't making noise so I'm not concerned. I don't off-road this thing so low range is kind of moot for me.
• They all come with heated 1st and 2nd row seats, leather everywhere, Bose audio, projector headlights, auto lamps, etc etc. Lots of nice little things the "regular" Tahoes/Yukons don't get.
• You get "Magneride" - aka magnetic shocks that firm up when in Tow/Haul mode. The truck drives markedly better than a non-Magneride Tahoe. I've driven 'em back to back and honestly wouldn't have purchased one without.
• Rear air ride for load leveling. Some people delete the system when it fails (shocks go bad and leak, pump can die, etc) but I plan on keeping mine. It really is nice to hook up the trailer, load up the car, and have the truck help out in keeping things level.

The GMT800 Denalis are literally Escalades without the gaudy wood trim. And, you don't have to tell people you daily drive an Escalade (Disclaimer: I am not a drug dealer or rapper and prefer the more plebian "oh yeah I just have an old Yukon" on first dates)

Mine has put me through the ringer lately on maintenance - it needed a steering box, Hydroboost lines and a master cylinder all recently - but I seriously, seriously love it. It tows extremely well.

I bought mine in January at 125k miles (paid $10k) and have added another 12k to it to date. The repairs listed above are all that have been needed. It was a one-owner, local vehicle that was always serviced at the local GMC dealership. Whatever applicable recalls were taken care of at the time, it looks like it was never used to haul little kids around, and is in very good shape for being 10 years old.

Definitely go 2003-2006 as they got a lot of little updates vs. the 01/02 Denali. If you can find one, do a 2005-2006 for the power bump I mentioned.

 

[adventurenali92]

I've had dodges from day on of starting driving @ 15. Love dodges. But got sick of replacing something every three months in my durango. I had my heart set on a sequoia between 2003-2007, the older body style. Couldn't find what I wanted. My sort of adopted family all drive yukon Denali xl models and one has an esky esv. Love their cars and I detail them all the time. They convinced to shop for a denali. Drove a few of the other gms with the 5.3L V8 and didn't like it @ all. Test drove my
Denali and fell in love. 2006. 6.0L V8. I live in a SoCal ski town so I do a ton of mountain(steep/windy corners) driving. Love the big V8, the AWD, the air ride suspension, and it has l the creature comforts I wanted. Plus towing my boat is a dream with the denali. Plenty of tow power, the auto level feature in the rear suspension is really nice. And the long wheelbase really settles into the road and rides pretty smooth. I spent $15k on a 2006 with 74,600 miles. Save for a front end alignment and new tires, which is not a big deal @ all my denali has been problem free. The gm SUVs with low miles are out there and for a decent price. Look hard cuz you will find it.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Can't do a Denali, lack of low range is a deal breaker for me. I do need to have at least mild off-road capability and to me that means low range has to be an option. Not looking for a rock crawler but I have to at least have the option of doing some 3/10 rated trails (think Alpine Loop or Medano Pass.)

If the AWD T-case had a low range mode I might consider it but without low range I wouldn't.

As for air ride, my concern is that it relies on compressors and hoses that can fail, and also doing a mild lift might be problematic.

 

[02DFWTahoe]

I just bought a Tahoe 2 days ago. I looked at a lot of vehicles, 4Runners, Jeeps, NBS Tahoes/Yukons, etc. I was probably being too picky because I didn't want a project, but it's my money

I didn't want a 10+ year old vehicle with a bunch of gimmicks that had failed or were potentially going to fail and cause me issues down that road as I'm planning on keeping the vehicle for a long time. In most of the leather vehicles I looked at, the seats were destroyed even if the vehicle had ~125k miles on it.

I think I kind of lucked into the vehicle that I bought, it's an 02 with just under 98,000 miles on it. LS package, so it's all cloth with a split bench up front, new tires and AC comp, third row, 4x4, etc. I paid $5,500 for it, which I was pretty comfortable with.

The vehicles are definitely out there, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack. Craigslist is full of morons, and I made a few 100 mile round trips only to find out that the pictures made the vehicle look much nicer. There were a few low miles Tahoes/Yukons at larger big 3 dealerships that were as nice as what I bought, but they were far too proud of them for my taste.

Just in reading around here, there was some mention of a particular cylinder head casting in the 05-06 model year I believe that could cause some trouble.

 

[clandr1]

Get a 06 2500 Burban, Bolt a Tvs 1900 blower on it. Profit from indestructible drivetrain, Rock solid engine and ridiculous towing power.
Leave it bone stock other than the blower (maybe a catback) and a moderate tune.
You will love it.

Don't be afraid of a 100-150k mile 2500. That's nothing for them. Obviously the lower the better but I personally would look to body and interior condition before fretting over engine and drive train vs cost of vehicle.

Its FAR cheaper to engine/trans swap then it is to fix a tore up interior or body.

Its not overkill. the Primary reason I mentioned the 2500 is the Transmission..
The 2500 has the 4L80 which is a beast in stock form.
While the little 1500 has the 4L60 which is a giant pile of steaming rhino poop.

The 4L60 grenades while just daily driving. Now start towing with it in a big SUV and it ***** the bed fast.

So, I said 2500 so you wouldn't ever have any problems and come back wanting to put my head on a pike.

I was going to recommend this exact thing - a 2500 Suburban. This 3/4 ton truck will tow anything you want, the transmission is upgraded compared to a regular Yukon/Tahoe 1500, and you can get either a 5.3L, 6.0L, or 8.1L motor depending on what you want your gas mileage to be comparative to the availble towing power.

I disagree w/ a blower - I'm a big fan of leaving my vehicles factory stock, but other than that he'***** the nail on the head.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I wouldn't necessarily say "no" to a 2500 but from what I've seen they're pretty rare on the used market. I have no need for the 8.1 but the 6.0 would be OK.

Recent CL search turned up 1 2500 and about a dozen 1500's in my area. I have yet to find a GMC 2500 Yukon XL for sale, those must be unicorns!

No worries as I won't be seriously shopping until next year most likely.

 

[ezdaar]

expand your search and reach out to dealerships to help find it.

You sure you want a XL? those things are massive.
Ahh read your post again and understand why now.
Think about this, 2500 crew cab silverado/sierra with a shell on it or hard locking bed cover.
They are dime a dozen.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Aagh, you guys are killing me. Just found a 2001 2500 in my area for 8500. And it has 43,000 miles on it. Oh and it's my favorite color (dark green.) DANG! Too bad I'm not in a position to buy...

Actually, it just gives me confidence that if/when it's time for me to buy I'll be able to find just what I'm looking for. Here in Colorado it seems like Tahoes and Suburbans are everywhere. And almost all of them are 4x4s (seriously, finding a 2wd 'Burb or Tahoe would be a tough chore here.)

EDIT: Whoops, my bad, it has 98,000 on it, not 43,000. Still, a gorgeous truck!

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 PM ----------

So in the 2500 vs 1500 comparison, the 2500 has leaf springs in the back correct? So I'm assuming that means no panhard bar? Does that mean it's easier or less expensive to lift? Not talking about a massive lift, maybe an inch or two. Enough to stuff 33's underneath.

And the 6.0 that's in the 2500 is the same as the 6.0 that's in the GMC, right? Only difference being that the GMC is AWD with no low range but the 2500 'Burb would have low range, yes?

I'm learning! Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[ezdaar]

first are we talking truck or SUV?

If truck ,yess leaf springs in rear, and all thats needed to clear 33's is shackles. 25$ at autozone.
SUV's are all coil spring in the ass and do have panhard rod. spring spacer will clear 33's

Front best is spindles but ALOT of guys just crank the torsion keys, but end up bitching due to steering component failures with in 50k miles.
Not 100% sure anymore, but I think I had 33's on my stock height denali and had no rub issues.

as far as the 6.0, yes its identical

 

[Martinjmpr]

first are we talking truck or SUV?

Front best is spindles but ALOT of guys just crank the torsion keys, but end up bitching due to steering component failures with in 50k miles.
Not 100% sure anymore, but I think I had 33's on my stock height denali and had no rub issues.

as far as the 6.0, yes its identical

No, talking about a Suburban or Yukon XL. For some reason I thought the 2500 Suburbans had leafs in the back while the 1500's had the multilink with coils.

As far as a front spindle lift, isn't that just for 2wds? I'd definitely be getting a 4x4.

 

[ezdaar]

From the quick and dirty digging I just did, you are correct, 1500 is coils, 2500 is leafs with no panhard rod
Then a simple 25$ shackle kit will lift ya enough to clear 33's Np.

Spindle lift is for all vehicles. its the best way to do it.

Easy and cheap. Couple hand tools, jack and couple hours. done..

 

[YukonXL04]

The spindle lift is only for 2wd right? You can get different knuckles for a 4x4 though.

 

[Martinjmpr]

So I'm seeing a lot of Yukons, Yukon XLs, Tahoes and 'Burbs in the 120k-160k mile range.

I know this has been partially answered, but what kinds of "issues" should I expect with vehicles in these mileage ranges? Water pump I've heard, anything else? Does the 4l60e transmission give any cues as to when it's starting to go bad and what would those be? Am I right in assuming that these engines can easily go over 200k?

What's interesting is that as I scan Craigslist I see a lot of high mileage vehicles (0ver 200k) going very cheaply and I'm wondering if that's because they're already starting to have problems.

I guess I'm trying to figure out if it would be better to gamble on a 220k vehicle for $3500 or take the "safe bet" and look at a 110k-130k vehicle for $10,000+.

Am I right in assuming that the transmission is the "high end" component most likely to fail? What would it cost me to have a transmission rebuilt? How robust are the electric 4wd controls on these?

 

[Brake_L8]

I'd keep mileage down, mainly because of the transmissions. The motor is stout from what I know, but I'd rather have a lower-mile 4L60/65 than one with 200k+ to start with.

That said, if you find a clean one with higher miles, it may not be all bad. My neighbor has a '01 Silverado with the 5.3/4L60 that he bought in 2003. Never towed with it but appears to drive the hell out of it otherwise... and it's got 230k on the clock. I think it really depends on how it was cared for.

If you find a truck that's for sale by owner, as opposed to dealership, and it's a one or two-owner vehicle with a ton of records... screw the mileage, buy based on condition.

 

[02DFWTahoe]

So I'm seeing a lot of Yukons, Yukon XLs, Tahoes and 'Burbs in the 120k-160k mile range.

I know this has been partially answered, but what kinds of "issues" should I expect with vehicles in these mileage ranges? Water pump I've heard, anything else? Does the 4l60e transmission give any cues as to when it's starting to go bad and what would those be? Am I right in assuming that these engines can easily go over 200k?

What's interesting is that as I scan Craigslist I see a lot of high mileage vehicles (0ver 200k) going very cheaply and I'm wondering if that's because they're already starting to have problems.

I guess I'm trying to figure out if it would be better to gamble on a 220k vehicle for $3500 or take the "safe bet" and look at a 110k-130k vehicle for $10,000+.

Am I right in assuming that the transmission is the "high end" component most likely to fail? What would it cost me to have a transmission rebuilt? How robust are the electric 4wd controls on these?

I really don't think you're looking at $10,000+ for a NBS Tahoe with low miles. Including mine, I found two that had at or under 100,000 miles, I paid $5,500, the dealer wanted $7,995 for a Denali with 105k that was very clean, but still priced too high IMO. Both mine and the Denali were 4WD, in a sea of 2WD vehicles.