BREAKING: GM is officially recalling the L87

[Vladimir2306]

By the way, interesting information in this topic has been mentioned more than once about the temperature of the oil level in the engine. I have a question, where is she from? my scanner doesn't see such a sensor, and I found a screenshot that there is no physical oil temperature sensor on 6.2, and the data there is calculated.

 

[BacDoc]

Can you expand on this? Were they brief with their answers? Did they roll their eyes?

I think it is very understandable that the vehicle owners have questions and while I understand that GM dealers are likely sick of repeating themselves, they are in a service industry. You can't have everyone bring their vehicles in for service at dealer prices but not want to help those same customers when a recall exists. That's GM's problem (to make right with the dealers) the customer shouldn't have to deal with 'low morale' of the dealer. Not only that, but the customer is also not in a good spot, either.

Yes they did roll their eyes and very evasive when I asked if they had any trucks that died and are waiting on engines. Almost like a politician that never really answers the question.

This is coming from a dealership that historically has bent over backwards for customers and strives for customer service. When I first bought my 6.2l Tahoe about a year ago I asked them about issues with these vehicles and they told me they had engine failure on some in last couple years. They said it was so uncommon to see this problem and they had no trucks in the shop at that time or recently for engine failure.
This lead me to believe that the failure rate was statistically so low that I wouldn’t worry about it - that was then. Something definitely is going on.

As Lance Armstrong said when asked about his competitors in the blatant doping/EPO era - Not normal!

 

[GMCChevy]

There's been number of people here who've had bad 6.2s. It would be interesting to know but probably hard to tell now since they've been replaced how how many of those engines fall within GMs window.

 

[jfoj]

By the way, interesting information in this topic has been mentioned more than once about the temperature of the oil level in the engine. I have a question, where is she from? my scanner doesn't see such a sensor, and I found a screenshot that there is no physical oil temperature sensor on 6.2, and the data there is calculated.

It appears that the oil pressure sensor is a combined oil pressure and oil temperature sensor. While this may be useful, I was a bit shocked that the oil pressure sensor is also configured as an oil temperature sensor as well. I would think the oil temperature should be more sensed in the oil sump than at the end of an oil galley that probably does have constant flow.

Most of the oil temperature sensors that I have seen in the past were sump mounted combination oil level and oil temperature sensors. This was pretty common for BMW and other German models from my experience. Unclear if the GM oil level sensor has the ability to monitor temperature and if GM would have used the 2 sensors in combination to arrive at an oil temperature.

As for your scan tool, most standard OBDII/EOBD tools WILL NOT read the enhanced or extended sensor date. OBDII/EOBD typically does not focus on oil temperature. GM also has the highest cost to license their enhanced data set information and most cheaper tools will not pay the GM licensing fees.

To view the enhanced or extended sensor data for any make or model, you would not use the OBDII/EODB portion of the tool. You would need to choose the specific module or component you want to monitor. So the Engine module needs to be selected, then the Live data for the Engine module would then need to be displayed. While you can see a subset of Live data when choosing OBDII/EOBD, this is just a subset of standard data that OBDII/EOBD is formatted to monitor. Other data needs a more advanced tool and support for the manufacturers specific dataset.

Additionally almost all OBDII/EOBD data needs calculations to provide the data in a readable numeric form to temperature, pressure, time, speed and so forth. Almost every OBDII/EOBD PID has a formula associated with it to provide a useful data output.

GM 6.2l Oil Pressure & Temperature Sensor

 

[CorvairGeek]

It appears that the oil pressure sensor is a combined oil pressure and oil temperature sensor. While this may be useful, I was a bit shocked that the oil pressure sensor is also configured as an oil temperature sensor as well. I would think the oil temperature should be more sensed in the oil sump than at the end of an oil galley that probably does have constant flow.

Most of the oil temperature sensors that I have seen in the past were sump mounted combination oil level and oil temperature sensors. This was pretty common for BMW and other German models from my experience. Unclear if the GM oil level sensor has the ability to monitor temperature and if GM would have used the 2 sensors in combination to arrive at an oil temperature.

As for your scan tool, most standard OBDII/EOBD tools WILL NOT read the enhanced or extended sensor date. OBDII/EOBD typically does not focus on oil temperature. GM also has the highest cost to license their enhanced data set information and most cheaper tools will not pay the GM licensing fees.

To view the enhanced or extended sensor data for any make or model, you would not use the OBDII/EODB portion of the tool. You would need to choose the specific module or component you want to monitor. So the Engine module needs to be selected, then the Live data for the Engine module would then need to be displayed. While you can see a subset of Live data when choosing OBDII/EOBD, this is just a subset of standard data that OBDII/EOBD is formatted to monitor. Other data needs a more advanced tool and support for the manufacturers specific dataset.

Additionally almost all OBDII/EOBD data needs calculations to provide the data in a readable numeric form to temperature, pressure, time, speed and so forth. Almost every OBDII/EOBD PID has a formula associated with it to provide a useful data output.

GM 6.2l Oil Pressure & Temperature Sensor

An odd looking one too. My 2019 L86 had the 3 wire connector sensor they used for over a decade.

 

[jfoj]

The 4th terminal is for the thermocouple output.

I would assume the small protrusion on the tip if the sensor is actually the thermocouple bulb. A typical oil pressure sensor usually just has a small opening at the end of the sensor.

While this sensor is located in top of the rear engine block, it may be possible that the tip of this sensor is actually in the oil flow path slightly due to the way the oil galley may be drilled at an V angle. I have not had a chance to see this area on a block up close. If the tip of the sensor is not directly in the oil flow, it will capture the oil temperature, but probably with some delay.

I suspect the oil temperature monitoring may be used to determine when the DFM can start functioning. It may also be used to add input to the OLM system?

My ultimate question is there a drivers alert for a high oil temperature and if so, at what temperature is the driver notified of a high oil temperature. I question if there is a driver alert for high oil temperature as not a single 6.2l engine failure has ever flagged the driver with any sort of warning, maybe the oil never heated up to a temperature that would cause a driver alert. I also do not believe the there has been an oil pump failure or loss of oil pressure that caused any of the 6.2l failures because not a single report has indicated a oil pressure warning prior to an engine failure.

 

[Vladimir2306]

The 4th terminal is for the thermocouple output.

I would assume the small protrusion on the tip if the sensor is actually the thermocouple bulb. A typical oil pressure sensor usually just has a small opening at the end of the sensor.

While this sensor is located in top of the rear engine block, it may be possible that the tip of this sensor is actually in the oil flow path slightly due to the way the oil galley may be drilled at an V angle. I have not had a chance to see this area on a block up close. If the tip of the sensor is not directly in the oil flow, it will capture the oil temperature, but probably with some delay.

I suspect the oil temperature monitoring may be used to determine when the DFM can start functioning. It may also be used to add input to the OLM system?

My ultimate question is there a drivers alert for a high oil temperature and if so, at what temperature is the driver notified of a high oil temperature. I question if there is a driver alert for high oil temperature as not a single 6.2l engine failure has ever flagged the driver with any sort of warning, maybe the oil never heated up to a temperature that would cause a driver alert. I also do not believe the there has been an oil pump failure or loss of oil pressure that caused any of the 6.2l failures because not a single report has indicated a oil pressure warning prior to an engine failure.

that's exactly what I'm talking about, what do you measure yourself when you write everywhere about monitoring engine oil temperature? )

 

[jfoj]

that's exactly what I'm talking about, what do you measure yourself when you write everywhere about monitoring engine oil temperature? )

I have a tool that uses the specific Extended/Enhanced OBDII PID value to pull the data. I am not measuring it externally, I am pulling the date from the OBDII data stream directly from the port under the dashboard. .

Many of the Chinese tools rarely license the data from the vehicle manufacturers or they do for 1 year to obtain the PID values and calculations then cancel the license. Once the license is cancelled they are supposed to pull the support for the enhanced data, but they general do not pull the support from their tools. And if they do not directly license the data they pull it from someone that stole/hacked the data from the Dark Web.

Some people use terminal programs that perform a PID sweep and "hack" the replies if they do not have the actual PID value and calculations. But even once you obtain a reply for a specific sensor, sometimes, you need to unplug the sensor to make 100% sure you have the correct PID. Then even when you have the correct PID, there are calculations that need to be applied to the return value to display the value in a coherent value like Temperature, Time, Voltage or Pressure. Sometimes it is trial and error to obtain the correct calculations, sometimes people set up a bench test and then alter the input to a sensor and reverse engineer the calculations. The expensive, but correct way to obtain the PID and calculations is to license the date from the manufacturer.

With Global B, some things are still standardized but for module coding and thing like Super Cruise there is a greater emphasis on security. Some manufacturers over time will change up the Enhanced PID's and calculations for different reasons. Some may attempt to keep the automotive tool world honest, sometimes there are other reasons. I have seen PID values and PID calculations change over time in newer platforms. For example the Oil Pressure PID and calculations from 15-20 years ago may be different than the current Oil Pressure PID and calculations.

 

[Vladimir2306]

I have a tool that uses the specific Extended/Enhanced OBDII PID value to pull the data. I am not measuring it externally, I am pulling the date from the OBDII data stream directly from the port under the dashboard. .

Many of the Chinese tools rarely license the data from the vehicle manufacturers or they do for 1 year to obtain the PID values and calculations then cancel the license. Once the license is cancelled they are supposed to pull the support for the enhanced data, but they general do not pull the support from their tools. And if they do not directly license the data they pull it from someone that stole/hacked the data from the Dark Web.

Some people use terminal programs that perform a PID sweep and "hack" the replies if they do not have the actual PID value and calculations. But even once you obtain a reply for a specific sensor, sometimes, you need to unplug the sensor to make 100% sure you have the correct PID. Then even when you have the correct PID, there are calculations that need to be applied to the return value to display the value in a coherent value like Temperature, Time, Voltage or Pressure. Sometimes it is trial and error to obtain the correct calculations, sometimes people set up a bench test and then alter the input to a sensor and reverse engineer the calculations. The expensive, but correct way to obtain the PID and calculations is to license the date from the manufacturer.

With Global B, some things are still standardized but for module coding and thing like Super Cruise there is a greater emphasis on security. Some manufacturers over time will change up the Enhanced PID's and calculations for different reasons. Some may attempt to keep the automotive tool world honest, sometimes there are other reasons. I have seen PID values and PID calculations change over time in newer platforms. For example the Oil Pressure PID and calculations from 15-20 years ago may be different than the current Oil Pressure PID and calculations.

Again, a lot of letters, without answering my question. What do you measure if there is no sensor?))) the weather on Mars? You wrote a whole story here about how and what the oil temperature changes depending on the engine load))) and there is no oil temperature sensor.

 

[mummer43]

Having trouble signing into the GM website. I have been regularly checking the status of the recall for my Yukon and haven't had any trouble logging in until this morning. Now I keep getting an error message when I attempt to log-in. Is this happening for anyone else?

 

[nomech]

Having trouble signing into the GM website. I have been regularly checking the status of the recall for my Yukon and haven't had any trouble logging in until this morning. Now I keep getting an error message when I attempt to log-in. Is this happening for anyone else?

I can login, but then I see this

Unable to Connect

We're having trouble loading your products right now. Check your connection, wait a moment, and then try again.

 

[jfoj]

Again, a lot of letters, without answering my question. What do you measure if there is no sensor?))) the weather on Mars? You wrote a whole story here about how and what the oil temperature changes depending on the engine load))) and there is no oil temperature sensor.

Vladimir,

I answered your question multiple times.

I guess you must need to translate, I am sure your English is better than my Russian, but you need to understand this.

Very simple, the L84 and L87 have a COMBINED Oil Pressure/Oil Temperature Sensor. I believe this may have been added due to DFM on these engines.

See link included below.

Why do you feel these engines DO NOT have an oil temperature sensor? Is this because you are using some lower priced OBDII scan tool that does not support the Expanded/Enhanced dataset?? and indicates there is no Oil Temperature or it is somehow calculated? You cannot rely on some scan tool to determine what is or is not included as a sensor or parameter in a vehicles data stream. I have had to have long conversions with scan tool vendors about problems with their software, this is nothing new, I have been doing this for years!

Kind of like you claimed the DFM does not function in Tow Mode, it does, but I guess you are trying to figure out this by using your OBDII tool?

One of the reasons I explain a lot in detail is to not only answer someone's question, but also to EDUCATE others that may be viewing a topic or thread. Understand that I actually have more years automotive experience than you have had birthdays. I made my living, and a pretty good one at that, working in the automotive industry for many years. I have worked in shops, for manufacturers, for myself, as a consultant and was ASE Certified as a Master Automotive Technician for many years as well. Had to take multiple ASE Recertification's over the years.

I posted the part number in an earlier reply to you about this subject, I will post it AGAIN.

Please see this part in the link below:

Combined Oil Pressure/Oil Temperature Sensor for the L84/L87 Engines

Do you not believe a GM parts database??

What will it take to convince you that your vehicle has an Oil Temperature sensor?

Are you aware that the 2025 models or at least some of the 2025 models now display or offer a gauge that displays Engine Oil Temperature? Unfortunately I have no idea why GM did not provide Engine Oil Temperature on pre-2025 models and I have no idea why GM only provided vague bar graph values for pre-2025 models with no numeric readout for the gauges they did display. The 2025 models include a bar graph along with a numerical readout for things like Engine Coolant Temperature, Engine Oil Pressure and Engine Oil Temperature. On pre-2025 models only the Transmission Fluid temperature was a numeric readout. This is all based on my experience with the Yukons, maybe this is different for some of the Chevrolets or the 2500+ series trucks.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Vladimir,

I answered your question multiple times.

I guess you must need to translate, I am sure your English is better than my Russian, but you need to understand this.

Very simple, the L84 and L87 have a COMBINED Oil Pressure/Oil Temperature Sensor. I believe this may have been added due to DFM on these engines.

See link included below.

Why do you feel these engines DO NOT have an oil temperature sensor? Is this because you are using some lower priced OBDII scan tool that does not support the Expanded/Enhanced dataset?? and indicates there is no Oil Temperature or it is somehow calculated? You cannot rely on some scan tool to determine what is or is not included as a sensor or parameter in a vehicles data stream. I have had to have long conversions with scan tool vendors about problems with their software, this is nothing new, I have been doing this for years!

Kind of like you claimed the DFM does not function in Tow Mode, it does, but I guess you are trying to figure out this by using your OBDII tool?

One of the reasons I explain a lot in detail is to not only answer someone's question, but also to EDUCATE others that may be viewing a topic or thread. Understand that I actually have more years automotive experience than you have had birthdays. I made my living, and a pretty good one at that, working in the automotive industry for many years. I have worked in shops, for manufacturers, for myself, as a consultant and was ASE Certified as a Master Automotive Technician for many years as well. Had to take multiple ASE Recertification's over the years.

I posted the part number in an earlier reply to you about this subject, I will post it AGAIN.

Please see this part in the link below:

Combined Oil Pressure/Oil Temperature Sensor for the L84/L87 Engines

Do you not believe a GM parts database??

What will it take to convince you that your vehicle has an Oil Temperature sensor?

Are you aware that the 2025 models or at least some of the 2025 models now display or offer a gauge that displays Engine Oil Temperature? Unfortunately I have no idea why GM did not provide Engine Oil Temperature on pre-2025 models and I have no idea why GM only provided vague bar graph values for pre-2025 models with no numeric readout for the gauges they did display. The 2025 models include a bar graph along with a numerical readout for things like Engine Coolant Temperature, Engine Oil Pressure and Engine Oil Temperature. On pre-2025 models only the Transmission Fluid temperature was a numeric readout. This is all based on my experience with the Yukons, maybe this is different for some of the Chevrolets or the 2500+ series trucks.

I have provided a photo from a laptop where the official GM diagnostic program is located. This shows that the readings of the oil temperature sensor are calculated, and not the data from the physical sensor

 

[jfoj]

I have provided a photo from a laptop where the official GM diagnostic program is located. This shows that the readings of the oil temperature sensor are calculated, and not the data from the physical sensor

I have no idea what to tell you.

I have multiple tools that display the Oil Temperature for the L87 and they have been cross checked on 2 different 2025 models that display the oil temperature and the values match between my tools at what the vehicle displays. I cross checked my tools on the 2025 model because it actually will display the Oil Temperature. I assume the 2021-2024 models do not display Oil Temperature as my 2024 Yukon does not display the Oil Temp on the dash, but I can pull the data from the connector under the dash. As I mentioned the 2 function sensor is new for the L84 and L87. It may be used on other newer engines, but I have not dug deep to see every platform that uses a 2 function sensor.

It is possible there is just a "bug" in the software that you have access to and for some reason what is displayed is "Calculated" because there is a problem with the syntax or the calculation behind the interface?? Possibly the software is not properly updated from the prior L83/L86 platform that did not have the 2 function sensor.

This is where people fall down the in the well hole. They believe the software or the "Specs" without doing a deep dive and cross checking things.

Seems if this is "Official" GM software, someone needs to contact support and get it sorted out.

EDIT UPDATE, I went back and looked closely at the header in your picture of the software, you do not have "Official" GM software, what you are using is HP Tuners VCM software which is pretty much a hack software. It is reverse engineered and likely the software developers have not sorted out the entire dataset for the L87. Maybe they did a PID scan and they have not spend the Annual $50,000 USD licensing fee for the official GM dataset.

Additionally if there is another brand tool that is updated use it to pull the data. Tools like Snap On, Autel, Launch and some others should display the data if the tool is up to date.

I find bugs and problems in software all the time and depending on the situation, I will contact the supplier and outline the issue and request a fix. I have been doing this for years and years. Nothing new in the software and automotive tool world.

If is not uncommon for me to be very skeptical with any software tool, I usually try to compare the tool with other tools to verify readings, especially readings that seem out of line. And based on the HP Tuners VCM suite that is being used, if I had purchased or licensed this software, I would be all over the vendor like flies on a cowpie in a hot field in the sun to fix their software.

I am not a very nice or patient person when I pay for something and get told things like "this is normal". I am hounding Autel at the moment for something stupid they did and they keep telling me it is "normal". They are so foolish they cannot understand how big of a problem they have on their hands. This is not my first trip down this trail.

 

[ArcherAve]

So if you spent 80-120k for a vehicle then you should have shopped around unless you got an Escalade cause my dealership has NEVER had an 80K 6.2 truck. Loss of propulsion is not gonna get you killed unless you are driving some insane speed or driving like speed racer.

Loss of propulsion can easily result in serious injuries/fatalities with even the most skilled driver on a highway. You can't control what happens behind you.

 

[JTGZ71]

I can login, but then I see this

Unable to Connect

We're having trouble loading your products right now. Check your connection, wait a moment, and then try again.

I was able to login with no issues this afternoon. When I pull up the recall info, it still shows "Incomplete. Remedy not available."

 

[viven44]

I am not a very nice or patient person

Yeah right if that is true, I think we will run out of adjectives to describe a few of us here

 

[BeavOR]

2023 High Country

I’ve read every post in this thread and need some help thinking through the potential remedy. I understand engine basics but am nowhere near as knowledgeable as many of you, so I’m seeking some input.

When notified I’ll take the Tahoe into the dealership for the inspection. If they identify the failed part, I’ll get in line for a replacement engine. If they do not identify a faulty part then I get different oil, a new oil cap, and an extended warranty. The piece I’m struggling with is the timing of the test. If my engine passes the test on inspection day, how can GM be sure the potential faulty part won’t fail in 10 miles or 30,000 miles down the road? I understand that’s part of the reason for the extended warranty, but it does not alleviate my concerns or fear of being stranded on a remote highway/road. I live in the Pacific NW and frequently travel over mountain passes with limited shoulder space. If the engine loses propulsion and I have to pull over in the pass, then part of Tahoe will be in the road (especially in winter when the shoulders are covered in snow banks), presenting a dangerous situation for approaching traffic (forward and rear).

I guess I’m curious if I’m contemplating this risk correctly? Just because my engine passes inspection that day, am I really any “safer” than I was the before the test?

 

[Marky Dissod]

If my engine passes the test on inspection day, how can GM be sure the potential faulty part won’t fail in 10 miles or 30,000 miles down the road? I understand that’s part of the reason for the extended warranty, but it does not alleviate my concerns or fear of being stranded on a remote highway/road.
...
Just because my engine passes inspection that day, am I really any “safer” than I was the before the test?

No one can be SURE. GM is willing to use 0W40, which will offer some extra protection in exchange for 2MpG.
Your concerns cannot be COMPLETELY alleviated, they can only be mitigated.

Would not be surprised if an unusually (embarrassingly) high number of L87s fail between 150,001 & 200,000 miles ...

 

[OR VietVet]

Saw this at GMT800 Forum.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a64611938/chevy-silverado-tahoe-cadillac-escalade-defective-v8-recall/