Want Replacement Speakers

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Doubeleive

Wes
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if your asking what brand/model I would recommend I would say the infinity kappa series are pretty decent for the money they sound pretty good and they are durable, prices range on them depending on the wattage needed, so if you know or find out what your existing amp is putting out (watt's per channel) then you can shop for speakers accordingly. Like mentioned above if you invested a little bit into some sound deadening material it can make a significant difference in the sound.
 
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homesick

homesick

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I was asking about the head unit to try to see what kind of EQ adjustments it had. Some are very basic and have just treble and bass, others have treble, mid and bass (sometimes identified as actual frequencies), some have 5, 7, 10, 12 or more frequency bands to adjust. Then there are the "loudness" and bass and/or treble booster functions.

Your ears, speakers, and even the amplifier in the head unit change with age and if the system has been installed and not adjusted for a while, you may just need to take some time and tweak the EQ again. If it only has 3-5 bands of adjustment, then you may just need to upgrade the HU to something with more sound shaping capabilities. A new HU would also have fresh amplifier circuitry that may breathe new life into the speakers. I'm not saying you don't need new speakers. But, even if you were to get a $1,000 set of component speakers, well, as the old saying goes, "garbage in = garbage out".

I would also highly suggest you insulate the inside of the doors with some sound deadener. This alone has been proven time and time again to totally change the sound of even stock speakers for the better. Not only does it insulate the outside noise from intruding, it also attenuates the resonance of the sheet metal that the speaker is firing against. There's a reason speaker enclosures are made of wood, plastic or fiberglass and not sheet metal. There, again, a $1,000 set of components in a tin can of an enclosure (the doors) can sound like some Autozone clearance special speakers and some clearance special speakers can sound like your beloved Planar Magnetics when placed in a proper enclosure. I surprise people all the time by taking their supposed "garbage subwoofers" and put them in a properly-designed enclosure.

Aside from the HU, I'd suggest some quality component speakers fed off an amplifier. You don't need anything spectacular- just a decent small amp with a solid 50W per channel will do. Since you have a sub, you can get a 5-channel amp and run the whole thing. If the power wire that's currently ran for your sub amp is big enough, you can just swap out the amp, run another set of RCAs from the HU, then run speaker wires to the new components. Or, cheaper still, since you have a 2-door, you could get a 2-channel amp and just the pair of components for the doors. Put the tweeters in the dash speaker locations. Or, if you want full range speakers in the dash, remember: "Sound is round". So, elliptically-shaped speakers such as what would be in that 4x6 hole in the dash aren't as optimal. You can get some plate speakers that have a ~3.5" woofer and separate tweeter that would be powered plenty enough off the HU's line level speaker outputs. Then you could put the tweeter from the 6.5" components set in the door, just in front of the door handle.

You have plenty of options to get great sound without having to buy a bunch of expensive gear. But first you have to rule out what you currently have that is "good", optimize what you have now/what the new gear will be going into (sound deadener, etc.).

I'm not belittling any of your comments, at all. You obviously put some effort into your answer, and I appreciate that. I am familiar, though, with most of the points you mention. I've been an audio enthusiast since 1974 (lol, I still have my Sansui receiver and Pioneer 8-Track recorder).

Specifically...

1-- IIRC, there are 10 EQ bands, plus a loudness control.

2-- The gear's only been in since last Spring-Summer, so I'm still messing with the initial adjustments.

3-- Part of the install included deadening behind the speakers.

4-- I meant to say so in the OP, but an amp was part of the deal.

joe
 

08HoeCD

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You were one example I was thinking of when I was writing. :thumbsup:
Them "crappy" factory Bose speakers aren't so bad after all, huh? I think it's just the common case of the factory doing the bare minimum and leaving much improvement to be had on the table. But, if they were to insulate it as well as you did, they'd add WAY more than just $50 to the price of the vehicle and justify it with a fancy name like "Premium Ambient Isolation" package.

Cool, brother.

While I can’t claim that the Bose speakers themselves are all that good, I am certain that the application of deadening material in my case definitely enhanced the mid-bass in particular and the overall soundstage in general.
 

BourbonNcigars

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Cinch up your sacks, pour a drink, and smoke 'em if you got 'me. As Deadpool would say, "This shit's gonna have nuts in it".

Audio is such a difficult topic online. Some argue it's subjective, while others (like me) go off measurements. Then there's the whole "taste" thing. Some people who have access to an EQ, the first thing they do is make a smiley face. Makes sense, actually, even if it's frowned upon. Our ears and brains work that way. Less sensitive in certain frequency ranges, so we accentuate them to get the desired sound for what we find appealing. Google Fletcher-Munson curve to get an idea. Also have to factor in our individual hearing ability.

Anyway, having had a '96 two door, my first guess is that you're battling a somewhat harsh audio environment right off the bat. In fact, some (like me) will argue to no end that the environment you're listening in is the most important thing. I've heard multi-thousand dollar home theater systems sound like ass compared to far cheaper set ups. Why? Room treatments (to stop reflections) don't usually go hand in hand with aesthetics. So rich folk spend all this money on an audio system that went in a beautiful room with hardwood floors and bare walls. Yay reflections. Dedicated theater rooms can have treatments on the walls and corners, cancelling the peaks and nulls. Outcome? The cheap one sounds better...and also measures better.

So, when you say your audio system lacks finesse, there's a multitude of reasons you could think this. By the way, in the audio world, be it car or home, I do believe in the axiom of "buy electronics for features, buy speakers for sound". Dear God in Heaven I can't count the arguments I've seen where people argue one amp sounds better than another, yet when you ask for data to show how, it's never there. Now, that's not to say that equipment doesn't vary in quality. It certainly can. Especially the speakers.

On a somewhat related note, you ever read where people replaced the "crappy" factory system with an aftermarket rig and thought it sounds worse? Worse to most people means less bass. Know why? Most factory systems that don't use a sub employ full range (or close to full range) door speakers. Meaning the listener was getting close to the full spectrum of sound. When they went aftermarket, where manufactures mostly cater to the car audio enthusiast, they got speakers without checking the frequency response on them. So they replaced speakers that went down to 45hz with ones that drop like a stone at 80hz. Guess what...bye bye bass. Aftermarket speaker makers know that most people who buy their product are gong to use a filter to send low frequency information to a subwoofer (or two). No need to put the extra amplifier strain (hello distortion) running door speakers down to 45hz when that info will be sent to a dedicated sub amp(s).

So..back to your particular issue. You mentioned in an early post that you're sensitive to the human vocal range. Generally that encompasses a surprisingly broad frequency range, but for most, it centers around the 500 -1000hz range. And, interestingly enough, that range is usually the bottom dip that most people make in the aforementioned smiley face on an adjustable EQ. My first thought is that, like you mentioned, "environmental sounds" have caused you to lose hearing in the far ends of the frequency spectrum, causing your sensitivity to the middle of the spectrum. I.e., you simply aren't hearing the other sound information like most people. Especially the high end. High frequency wavelengths are much shorter than low frequency, and are thus are more susceptible to being influenced by the environment you're listening in. Easily absorbed by a seat cushion, the jacket your'e wearing, the headliner, etc. Low frequency info has long wavelengths, making it extremely hard to absorb. It can be a dominating powerhouse in an audio system. It loves to reflect over every surface (because it's not easily absorbed) and reek havoc with the other sounds in the frequency range, altering how we perceive what we hear. Want an example? I knew you did....

Below is a measurement I took not two hours ago. See, I'm having an audio issue of my own. I have quite bad tinnitus. So I take audio and the effect it has on my ears very seriously in any facet of life. I've noticed my right ear (my worst ear) rings badly after even a short trip in my Tahoe. A problem I've not had yet in another vehicle. Look at this measurement at 70mph:

Road Noise.PNG

That circled area in yellow is low frequency information. For some reason I have an active subwoofer built into my Tahoe. It could be something called Structure borne road noise, it could be that I simply need new tires. Don't know...which is what sucks. Anyway, what I'm showing is that my Tahoe is generating a low frequency sound in some decent decibel ranges. My reason for measuring it was because the clues were there: I had no bass in my radio on the highway, yet I did at idle. Why? The road noise in the cabin is overpowering my radio, unless I turn it up, but then I'm simply doing more damage to my ears by masking the road noise. This could be a more common scenario than most people think. I mean, who measures this shit? Besides me...

I'll stop here. I got long winded. Summary: Car audio and just audio in general can become a rabbit hole worthy of Alice wishing she'd spent more on hiking boots. Maybe post up the exact equipment you're currently running and we go from there. And don't forget the primary source you're listening to. If you're hearing is compromised at the far ends of the spectrum, you're likely going to be sensitive to audio compression, like what's used with SiriusXM. Even though I still use it, it's awful to my ears while my wife can't tell any difference.

To anyone who read all this, damn. You're hardcore. I like you.

*EDIT: And, yes, as others have posted, you can certainly do something to change the listening area. Deaden panels with butyl backed material, closed cell foam, and mass loaded vinyl can do the trick. But it depends on the vehicle. Improvement is always possible but there's a limit some will take with certain vehicles. Don't want to spend $1000 for a fractional improvement.
 
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Doubeleive

Wes
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Cinch up your sacks, pour a drink, and smoke 'em if you got 'me. As Deadpool would say, "This shit's gonna have nuts in it".

Audio is such a difficult topic online. Some argue it's subjective, while others (like me) go off measurements. Then there's the whole "taste" thing. Some people who have access to an EQ, the first thing they do is make a smiley face. Makes sense, actually, even if it's frowned upon. Our ears and brains work that way. Less sensitive in certain frequency ranges, so we accentuate them to get the desired sound for what we find appealing. Google Fletcher-Munson curve to get an idea. Also have to factor in our individual hearing ability.

Anyway, having had a '96 two door, my first guess is that you're battling a somewhat harsh audio environment right off the bat. In fact, some (like me) will argue to no end that the environment you're listening in is the most important thing. I've heard multi-thousand dollar home theater systems sound like ass compared to far cheaper set ups. Why? Room treatments (to stop reflections) don't usually go hand in hand with aesthetics. So rich folk spend all this money on an audio system that went in a beautiful room with hardwood floors and bare walls. Yay reflections. Dedicated theater rooms can have treatments on the walls and corners, cancelling the peaks and nulls. Outcome? The cheap one sounds better...and also measures better.

So, when you say your audio system lacks finesse, there's a multitude of reasons you could think this. By the way, in the audio world, be it car or home, I do believe in the axiom of "buy electronics for features, buy speakers for sound". Dear God in Heaven I can't count the arguments I've seen where people argue one amp sounds better than another, yet when you ask for data to show how, it's never there. Now, that's not to say that equipment doesn't vary in quality. It certainly can. Especially the speakers.

On a somewhat related note, you ever read where people replaced the "crappy" factory system with an aftermarket rig and thought it sounds worse? Worse to most people means less bass. Know why? Most factory systems that don't use a sub employ full range (or close to full range) door speakers. Meaning the listener was getting close to the full spectrum of sound. When they went aftermarket, where manufactures mostly cater to the car audio enthusiast, they got speakers without checking the frequency response on them. So they replaced speakers that went down to 45hz with ones that drop like a stone at 80hz. Guess what...bye bye bass. Aftermarket speaker makers know that most people who buy their product are gong to use a filter to send low frequency information to a subwoofer (or two). No need to put the extra amplifier strain (hello distortion) running door speakers down to 45hz when that info will be sent to a dedicated sub amp(s).

So..back to your particular issue. You mentioned in an early post that you're sensitive to the human vocal range. Generally that encompasses a surprisingly broad frequency range, but for most, it centers around the 500 -1000hz range. And, interestingly enough, that range is usually the bottom dip that most people make in the aforementioned smiley face on an adjustable EQ. My first thought is that, like you mentioned, "environmental sounds" have caused you to lose hearing in the far ends of the frequency spectrum, causing your sensitivity to the middle of the spectrum. I.e., you simply aren't hearing the other sound information like most people. Especially the high end. High frequency wavelengths are much shorter than low frequency, and are thus are more susceptible to being influenced by the environment you're listening in. Easily absorbed by a seat cushion, the jacket your'e wearing, the headliner, etc. Low frequency info has long wavelengths, making it extremely hard to absorb. It can be a dominating powerhouse in an audio system. It loves to reflect over every surface (because it's not easily absorbed) and reek havoc with the other sounds in the frequency range, altering how we perceive what we hear. Want an example? I knew you did....

Below is a measurement I took not two hours ago. See, I'm having an audio issue of my own. I have quite bad tinnitus. So I take audio and the effect it has on my ears very seriously in any facet of life. I've noticed my right ear (my worst ear) rings badly after even a short trip in my Tahoe. A problem I've not had yet in another vehicle. Look at this measurement at 70mph:

View attachment 216116

That circled area in yellow is low frequency information. For some reason I have an active subwoofer built into my Tahoe. It could be something called Structure borne road noise, it could be that I simply need new tires. Don't know...which is what sucks. Anyway, what I'm showing is that my Tahoe is generating a low frequency sound in some decent decibel ranges. My reason for measuring it was because the clues were there: I had no bass in my radio on the highway, yet I did at idle. Why? The road noise in the cabin is overpowering my radio, unless I turn it up, but then I'm simply doing more damage to my ears by masking the road noise. This could be a more common scenario than most people think. I mean, who measures this shit? Besides me...

I'll stop here. I got long winded. Summary: Car audio and just audio in general can become a rabbit hole worthy of Alice wishing she'd spent more on hiking boots. Maybe post up the exact equipment you're currently running and we go from there. And don't forget the primary source you're listening to. If you're hearing is compromised at the far ends of the spectrum, you're likely going to be sensitive to audio compression, like what's used with SiriusXM. Even though I still use it, it's awful to my ears while my wife can't tell any difference.

To anyone who read all this, damn. You're hardcore. I like you.

*EDIT: And, yes, as others have posted, you can certainly do something to change the listening area. Deaden panels with butyl backed material, closed cell foam, and mass loaded vinyl can do the trick. But it depends on the vehicle. Improvement is always possible but there's a limit some will take with certain vehicles. Don't want to spend $1000 for a fractional improvement.
so does your Tahoe have the 3 mic's in the headliner? (they look like tiny speaker griils) not talking about the one above the drivers head that one is a hvac sensor
 

BourbonNcigars

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so does your Tahoe have the 3 mic's in the headliner? (they look like tiny speaker griils) not talking about the one above the drivers head that one is a hvac sensor
Hell no. SSV here. I'm lucky I have a headliner at all.
Holy shit.
Lol
I know, right? I was outside having a cigar and some cabernet savignon. Got long winded. ;)
 

Doubeleive

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Hell no. SSV here. I'm lucky I have a headliner at all.

I know, right? I was outside having a cigar and some cabernet savignon. Got long winded. ;)
I don't see how you would have a active subwoofer then, the subwoofer would have to get data from microphones to calculate the cancellation frequency to produce.
 

BourbonNcigars

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I don't see how you would have a active subwoofer then, the subwoofer would have to get data from microphones to calculate the cancellation frequency to produce.
I was being sarcastic. The frequency response I'm getting from road noise looks like the same measurements you'd see from a sub. I'm getting low frequency info in the cabin from the vehicle itself through tires, suspension, etc...
 

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