Street suspension nightmare - + updated +

[fozzi58]

I'm venting a bit and still working through the issues but this experience has been pretty disappointing. Ordered the 2-3 drop kit and heavy duty sways from Tony, 24" KMC 677 D2s from discount tire direct along with nitto 305.35's, and a fog light kit from Vanquish auto.

Nothing has gone as expected. The rear looks like it got a 5" drop so there is no rake at all in the truck. The tires are rubbing. And Vanquish failed to include instructions for the fogs.

I'm less worried about the drop kit cause everyone's experience here and my brief conversations with Tony via emails, instills confidence so I am sure he will help me work through the drop issue.

KMC and DTD are less awe inspiring. After getting shipped a set of black wheels instead of chrome as per my original order, I come to find out that there are 2 types of wheels - hub centric and lug centric. The D2s are lug centric so I need to order a hub rings to correct that. I was told I needed to buy shallow/short lugs in order for the center caps to fit. So i did. And with the wheels mounted, the center caps still don't fit.....sigh....

I'm having a hard time believing that I am the first person on the planet to buy these wheels from DTD for a Tahoe/Burb/Yukon/Esky and them not have at least some type of information to provide customers.

Lastly I purchased a fog light kit from Vanquish. They sell a kit that hooks up to your existing harness so that the fogs come on when the headlights come on. Good enough for me and I don't have to add a switch to the dash or have my BCM programmed. No instructions. I reached out t them multiple times over the last few months with no response. Someone finally got back to me at 10pm EST last night. I'm disappointed that it took me threatening to return the product to get thier attention. Especially since they got my money months ago.

So anyways, I am hoping my post will help educate a few of us rookies who don't know all the ins and outs of wheels. Vanquish has been a disappointment thus far. I'll post again as I work through the issues. All the vendors I'm working with do deserve a fair shake so I will keep everyone posted. I'll put a picture of cheese on my next post since you were all so kind to listen to me whine.

 

[fozzi58]

 

[cmc76]

Sorry for the headaches. But it does look f ing slick

 

[Tahoe14]

Unfortunately you are not the first to complain about Vanquish if you had the time to look at previous threads. It seems they sell a good product but somewhat lacking in customer service. Hopefully you will get all of your issues worked out.

 

[NORCAL SS]

Gm used 3 diffferent spring rates on the trucks and rear on suburban will lower .5 more due to weight.

We can always get a spacer for rear to lift it up more

 

[1992rs]

To be fair, most off-the-shelf aftermarket wheels are lug-centric. They make the bore oversized so it can fit more universally amongst the different brands that share the bolt pattern. Toyota pick-ups bore size is 106-107mm, whereas our rigs are 78mm for example. You really dont need hub centric rings as long as a little extra care is taken when mounting the wheels. Installing and torquing via the star pattern is crucial for lug centric wheels so that way the force is distributed evenly amongst the lugs. Most rub centric rings are cheap plastic that cracks and breaks anyways.

Still though whoever you bought the wheels/tires from should of laid it out clearly. I feel that its common practice for tire shops to quote you the price of the tires, then surprise you at the end with the full lump sum of labor, mount/balance, tire recycling and other small "hidden fee's" like lugnuts, valve stems, etc..

Suburban looks good though. I think the drop and wheels look perfect IMO

 

[CMoore711]

View attachment 202601

Is this with just the rear lowered?
Did you lower the front at all?
Assuming the swaybars you got from Tony were Eibach, how’d the install go straight remove stock and install Eibach?
Did you get aftermarket endlinks?
Where are your tires rubbing? Front or Rear?

This ride height looks really good, very level. Are you wanting to raise the rear from the ride height in this pic?

Sorry so many questions, but I’ve got quite a few parts sitting in my garage (similar to your list) awaiting install.

 

[Rocket Man]

The stance looks perfect to me- why would you want a rake? Most of us want it level. Hope you get the rest figured out, looks good. Vanquish service is terrible.

 

[cmc76]

I have heard this about vanquish service. Oddly enough I've had all my front lights in by them. Never needed service .Knock on wood.

 

[roccos_van]

The rake is a simple fix. Tony can get you a 1" spacer for the rear coils. Most aftermarket wheels are lug cebtric. Get a set of hub rings that will help...also look for sort open cap lug nuts those may work.

 

[fozzi58]

After a couple days of settling, the rear fell a bit more. Mind you I am not driving the truck around. Its basically sitting in a lot.

Tony showed me 2" spacers that will replace the 1" spacers that are installed. I may even have the installer do the heater hose on the coils to give it a little extra lift. That level ride with 6 or 7 passengers or 4 people with luggage is going to look awfully silly driving down the highway with a negative rake when the truck is loaded up. Plus it puts the truck in a bad position from a steering and handling perspective...especially when that many more people are in your hands.

Vanquish finally sent me directions to the fog installs although looking at them confuses me more. Maybe the installer will figure this out. Lastly I still need to call DTD to get more shallow lugs. They responded to my email by saying "please call".

@CMooore

• Front and rear is lowered. Its a 2/3 drop from NorCal. Rear is too low for me. I need to know I can add weight to the truck in the form of passengers and luggage without the rear squatting lower than the front. I DON'T tow but I do put passengers in it pretty frequently.
• Eibachs are in from Tony but I think my installer put the mounts back in stock location. so he couldnt use the upgraded links Tony included. Possible no directions in the box? I dunno.
• Tires as of now are rubbing front and rear. Installer is going to play with the well guards on the front to see if he can tuck them back a bit. I assume the back rub cause of the height which should be corrected when the 2" spacers arrive.

 

[fozzi58]

To be fair, most off-the-shelf aftermarket wheels are lug-centric. They make the bore oversized so it can fit more universally amongst the different brands that share the bolt pattern. Toyota pick-ups bore size is 106-107mm, whereas our rigs are 78mm for example. You really dont need hub centric rings as long as a little extra care is taken when mounting the wheels. Installing and torquing via the star pattern is crucial for lug centric wheels so that way the force is distributed evenly amongst the lugs. Most rub centric rings are cheap plastic that cracks and breaks anyways.

Still though whoever you bought the wheels/tires from should of laid it out clearly. I feel that its common practice for tire shops to quote you the price of the tires, then surprise you at the end with the full lump sum of labor, mount/balance, tire recycling and other small "hidden fee's" like lugnuts, valve stems, etc..

Suburban looks good though. I think the drop and wheels look perfect IMO

From my mechanic and several other reputable sources on the web, lug centric wheels add stresses to the lugs which can cause the lugs to loosen over time and or add vibration. While its not a huge deal going from hub to lug centric wheels, anything I can do to keep the ride more tame, comfortable, and extend the longevity of the work I am doing (and the truck), then another 40 or 50 dollars is worth it. If the plastic hub rings crack then I already have several hub ring makers numbers that make custom metal hub rings as well.

 

[CMoore711]

Thanks for the detailed response.

You’re information on “lug centric” is accurate. I would definitely spend the extra coin for some aluminum hub centric rings. I’ve rocked those on previous vehicles with zero issues with ride/vibration at higher than normal highway speeds.

View attachment 202856

Agreed. From this pic the rear has settled too much.

Last question:
Did you reuse the stock rubber spring isolaters or no? And if so did you use the top, bottom, both, or neither?

I know this has been a bit of a frustrating experience, but keep at it. I’m sure you know modding isn’t always “plug n play” or “just remove and reinstall”... When you’re done you’ll have the exact results you’re after.

 

[crazycrew]

I think it looks great in the first pic. But I agree on the second pic posted that it has definitely settled too much. Obviously you do NOT have autoride correct? Have you thought about the in spring bags for when you have passengers. You can possibly put a compressor with an auto level setup, although that set up would cost a little more. You can also run the lines inside the gas cap or something and manually fill the valves!

Glad I hadn't ordered from Vanquish yet. I'm looking for some HID's to replace the factory one's in our denali.

And yes, as mentioned before, you should get some open ended lugs. That should solve your problem. Mind sending me the info for the hub centric ring manufacturers you have? PM is fine.

 

[CMoore711]

Glad I hadn't ordered from Vanquish yet. I'm looking for some HID's to replace the factory one's in our denali.

Mind sending me the info for the hub centric ring manufacturers you have? PM is fine.

FWIW I’ve had a great experience with Vanquish, answered all questions via PM after “normal business hours”. Fast shipping, delivered as promised, and the LED’s are some of the brightest.

You can search online and find plenty of custom bun centric ring mfgs.

I’ve used products from both of these companies with great results:

https://www.uswheeladapters.com/

http://www.motorsport-tech.com/hub_rings.html

 

[fozzi58]

I ordered the plastic hub rings from uswheel. If they crack I'll replace with metal. I went with the plastic cause I have already added a lot of unsprung weight with the bigger wheels.

Ordered 2" coil spacers for the rear as per Tony from NORCAL. Hoping that levels the truck out. In the meantime I may rethink the rear drop. If I put the rear back to stock and just go with a coil that has a 2" drop I might be better off. I really didn't want to add helper bags to the rear. Its more stuff in the truck that needs to be maintained. I bought an LS with the intention of keeping it light (I know its an oxymoron - suburban...light).

I'm planning on doing power adders so keeping things simple with everything else was the intent. I expected to maintain the rake but bring the truck down a bit with the 2 " drop up front and 3 in the back. Its more like 5" in the back now so that didn't quite work out how I thought it would.

I'm well aware that mods are not usually plug and play but I also researched and read through these forums and others to make sure I was going the right direction. So many forum members have had great success with Tony's kit it seemed like a near flawless way to go. Seeing others on here put a set of 26" x 10" wide wheels on their trucks without rubbing, I guess kinda gave me a false sense of security that the 24x9.5's I ordered would be a no brainer for my truck. I'm almost starting to regret that too now.

The acorn lugs are on the way and that should resolve my center cap issue.

I'll keep you posted. I'm staying confident that it will all work out in the end and hopefully someone here can avoid some of my pitfalls.

 

[crazycrew]

Offset also plays a tremendous part in whether those wheels rub or not. OE wheels are for the most part +31 offset. What's the offset of yours?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[fozzi58]

Offset also plays a tremendous part in whether those wheels rub or not. OE wheels are for the most part +31 offset. What's the offset of yours?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

+35 This is why I was thinking a wheel spacer may help. A 1/4"spacer will push the offset to +29. The problem with wheels spacers is the added stress to the bearings and lugs. I'll need hardened lug bolts...something from Moser or ARP possibly...and I have no idea if they make a better bearing for the hub. It will also force me to get a custom hub ring made. :/

 

[fozzi58]

The 2" spacers went in yesterday under the rear coils and it settled. Looks much better. Dropped off the acorn lugs this morning. I should be able to pick it up tonight. I still need to find some wheel locks and think about a wheel spacer. The mechanic pulled back the fender wells as best as possible. He said its still rubbing a bit on lock to lock but not like before.

He said since they are progressive springs I shouldn't worry about the rear sagging unless I really load it up. Even with 4 or 6 passengers and luggage it should still keep level. That eliminates my concern about bagging the rear. I can always add stiffer springs down the road if I want.

I'll post picks up tomorrow.

 

[NORCAL SS]

if you want the rear to be level even stock with 6 people will sag down. Airlift helper bags then you can adjust the height