Lights dimming with subs!

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That Guy
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Hey guys, I have a new issue.
Recently I installed an Alpine 500 watt RMS amp with a Alpine Type R 12" sub. I also used an 8 gauge wiring kit as called for by Alpine.
Basically, even at half volume, my subs dim almost every light on the car when they hit.
The bulbs it dims range from my led fogs, led turn signals, led tails and even my license plate leds. That's about it apart from the dome lights when they are on with the audio but I did not expect a simple 500 watt system to have such an impact on these bulbs!:emotions122:
If I have a constant hitting bass song on with all these bulbs they flash so much they almost look like strobe lights!:shocked:
So my question is how do I fix this issue. I just bought a quality Intersate battery back in October that should be able to handle a fair amount of power consumption.
 

Eagle

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three things:

1: battery size is not an issue. batteries are for starting, and for playing time with the key off.
that is all. Your stereo amplifier runs off the alternator.

2: that amp probably doesn't have a lot of onboard capacitance. This is one way that amp manufacturers have found to reduce size and cost in the last decade or so. They are building amps with only marginal specs on the power supply. And they rate their products very optimistically now too. :)

ANALOGY TIME!

When you ask them to actually produce the power they are rated for in the real world, you run into problems like this. Ie like an under powered econobox with 4 adult passengers being asked to run 75 mph up a mountain pass with luggage in the trunk might not have the power to run the A/C at the same time and keep up its speed.
Supposedly the car seats 4, can run 75 mph, can drive up a steep grade, can handle a trunk full of luggage and has a/c... but can it do all of of them at once? probably not. You need a more powerful engine under the hood if you are going to do that constantly. Or just a bigger more powerful car.

/analogy

3:
you are probably driving your amp into clipping:


you need to turn your bass boost, loudness, bass eQ etc down. those have a HUGE effect on the gain structure, and could require as much as 16x the current by artificially boosting the input levels too high before the amp.

probably turn the gain down too. not going to give you any dumb rule like "only use 1/4 gain"

What you need to do instead is
A: exercise self restraint. the knob on the head unit that controls volume? turn it to the left. I bet your problem disappears.
B: turn the bass boosting features OFF on your head unit. And keep them off. Loudness, Media xpander off or min, etc.
C: get a DMM and set the amp's gains that way if you are still having trouble. you will probably find that you are asking 800w or more from it... I don;t know how they rate amps anymore, but when they say 500w RMS/1000w peak, what they mean now is they only put enough capacitance in them to support 500w with out causing "dimming"

So measure and make sure you are not asking more from the amp than it can supply.


a good website for you to look at regarding setting gain

http://www.bcae1.com/

http://trussinme.com/Apps/audio/voltagecalc/default.asp

-------
Now:

If it just isn't LOUD ENOUGH after you turn it down to perform correctly, buy a 1000 or 1200w RMS amp... and then turn it down to only put out what you were getting before.
At that point the amp will be 'loafing along' and the onboard capacitance will be more than adequate.

That is the 'easy/real' fix, honestly. Dunno how many 1200+w rms amps i have seen in a car with a 75 amp alternator that did just fine, becasue they were dialed back to put out the same wattage as the much smaller but overdriven amp (400-600w) they replaced.

or buy a vintage (late 80s-mid 90s) large footprint amp with the same power specs... they are better built (overbuilt by comparison) and generally won't have this issue.



Let me just say one thing: You only have one set of ears.
There is no replacement or fix once damaged. And damage is CUMULATIVE... even lungs will heal (slowly) after you quit smoking. Ears do not self repair.


If you are constantly (and by that I mean more than 5 minutes a week) driving around playing loud enough to have problems with dimming lights, you are playing your music too loud.
and in 20 years or so you are really gonna regret it. \\
 
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OklabyGodhoma

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I agree with everything that Eagle said and please allow me to add one thing more. LED's being solid state devices vs. filaments in old style bulbs react instantly. The flux voltage is instantly seen in LED's where the filament bulbs don't dim enough for your eyes to see before they come back up to voltage. I could go into the whole RMS (root mean square) power formula but its boring and doesn't mean much to folks. Simple test....remove one of your LED's and put the original bulb back in and watch.....I think you will see what I am talking about.
 
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Thanks Eagle and Okla.
Eagle I have the bass boost and gains on the amp all the way down, but my bass loudness feature in the head unit is at half way. I will turn it down to see if that corrects the issue.
And Okla I actually was thinking that the dimming is caused by the LEDs because I know people with stock Tahoe with sytems that have higher outputs and their lights don't dim like mine do.

Either way both of you guys sure know your stuff! :Handshake:
 

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Where did you mount the amp? If it's in the back seat you probably want something bigger than an 8 gauge, probably a 4.

I take it you have the dual 4ohm sub wired in parallel?
 

blueflamed03

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with all accessories on, what is voltage AT the battery, and AT the amp....headlights, radio, etc on....truck running. See how far its dipping. Low voltage, could cause clipping, and ruin your speakers.
I have a Kinetik HC1800 under the hood, factory alt, and about 800 watts, no dimming with HIDs.
 
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Where did you mount the amp? If it's in the back seat you probably want something bigger than an 8 gauge, probably a 4.

I take it you have the dual 4ohm sub wired in parallel?

Yeah it's under the back seat but Alpine recommended an 8 gauge so I went with it, maybe I should have went with a 4. Also the 8 gauge wire barely fit in the 12V terminal, so I know a 4 gauge def. won't. If I find out that's the issue I will just scoop a 4 gauge wiring kit.

And yeah its the SWR-1243D model, so it's two 4ohm voice coils wired parallel to get a 2 ohm overall load.

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ----------

with all accessories on, what is voltage AT the battery, and AT the amp....headlights, radio, etc on....truck running. See how far its dipping. Low voltage, could cause clipping, and ruin your speakers.
I have a Kinetik HC1800 under the hood, factory alt, and about 800 watts, no dimming with HIDs.

I don't have a volt meter but according to the dash meter with the subs and all accessoires on the voltage is 15V, and it does not dip at all when the bass hits.
Also with the engien off and the subs, HU and fan still on it take like 5 minutes of play before the battery get to a discomfort level (roughly 11.5V).
 

nytahoe

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my lights arnt that bad and i have 2 12 type r and a a 1005 v 12 amp hows ur ground on the amp?
 
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my lights arnt that bad and i have 2 12 type r and a a 1005 v 12 amp hows ur ground on the amp?

My ground is just connected to a bolt under the rear seat, the amp does not get hot at all so I doubt its that.
Do any of you guys have LEDs in the same places I do have similar issues?
 

nytahoe

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two DVC 4's will end up with a final 1 ohm load...two DVC 2's is a 2 ohm load...

think he said 1 12 so it 2 ohm

i took a fast vid with my bb not great but i dont really dim. i have to take a better one.

th_ledlightandsubs.jpg
 

blueflamed03

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cool, read one sub,then saw this
Also with the engien off and the subs, HU and fan still on it take like 5 minutes of play before the battery get to a discomfort level (roughly 11.5V).

but your right then, one DVC 4 = 2 ohm :D

sorry for the confusion
 

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when i changed from one 10 inch to 2 12's recently, i wired my subs to run my amp at 2 ohm, as opposed to 4ohm from my old setup. I noticed that i was getting a slight dim on my lights, and i have full leds all around like you. After messing with the gain on my amp i was able to eliminate the slight dimming that i did have. Overall, my system is running about 900 watts rms, and 420 rms to my sub.
 
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when i changed from one 10 inch to 2 12's recently, i wired my subs to run my amp at 2 ohm, as opposed to 4ohm from my old setup. I noticed that i was getting a slight dim on my lights, and i have full leds all around like you. After messing with the gain on my amp i was able to eliminate the slight dimming that i did have. Overall, my system is running about 900 watts rms, and 420 rms to my sub.

Thanks NY for the video, mine dims a bit more than that.
Andyeah Blue you have it right now.
Shundal my gains are all the way down as called for by an Alpine and a 4V source for the sub input. So basically if oe has a 4V source their gains should be all the way down like mine.
 

stevek

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Yeah it's under the back seat but Alpine recommended an 8 gauge so I went with it, maybe I should have went with a 4. Also the 8 gauge wire barely fit in the 12V terminal, so I know a 4 gauge def. won't. If I find out that's the issue I will just scoop a 4 gauge wiring kit.

And yeah its the SWR-1243D model, so it's two 4ohm voice coils wired parallel to get a 2 ohm overall load.

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ----------



I don't have a volt meter but according to the dash meter with the subs and all accessoires on the voltage is 15V, and it does not dip at all when the bass hits.
Also with the engien off and the subs, HU and fan still on it take like 5 minutes of play before the battery get to a discomfort level (roughly 11.5V).

They recommend an 8 gauge if it's less than 1m from the battery. You may be better off setting up a distribution block next to the battery and then running the 4 gauge from there.
 
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They recommend an 8 gauge if it's less than 1m from the battery. You may be better off setting up a distribution block next to the battery and then running the 4 gauge from there.

Are you serious??
That is stupid if Alpine really thinks that an amp can possibly be 1 meter from the power source. That would mean its somewhere under the hood or on the firewall.
Problem is I don't think I can properly use a 4 gauge wire because the terminal for the battery source on the amp barely accomadated the 8 gauge I used.
Maybe I ill get some 0 gauge wire and run it to a d-block near the firewall bushing, then run the 8 gauge from there?
Or myabe I need to scoop some 4 or 0 gauge wire and do the big 3 mod, think that will help?
 

nytahoe

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I have 0 in my truck and I split it down to 4 right b4 the amp but I'm also drawing a 100 amps
 

stevek

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Are you serious??
That is stupid if Alpine really thinks that an amp can possibly be 1 meter from the power source. That would mean its somewhere under the hood or on the firewall.
Problem is I don't think I can properly use a 4 gauge wire because the terminal for the battery source on the amp barely accomadated the 8 gauge I used.
Maybe I ill get some 0 gauge wire and run it to a d-block near the firewall bushing, then run the 8 gauge from there?
Or myabe I need to scoop some 4 or 0 gauge wire and do the big 3 mod, think that will help?

Where did you connect the HID relays?
 
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The HID relay is connected directly to the +ve terminal on the battery?
 

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