I hate to compare.... Chevy 5.3 vs Ford 4.6

[avalonandl]

I didn't know the 5.3 had VVT after 2010.

Anyone with the pre AFM notice their engines getting on the warm side when towing up a hill in the summer? How warm will you let it go?

The LS water pump can lose efficiency as it gets older. I would have the system checked. The 4 speed trans is very old school. I would suggest a 180 tstat also..easy to change.

 

[3Dog]

The 4.6L 2v in your 92 grand marquis and the 4.6 3v with VCT in your 08 Explorer are not the same engine.

The latter likes to shoot spark plugs through the hood, and cam phasers like to fail.

What can be an issue is spark plugs snapping off when trying to change them. There is a tool available to remove such a plug. As for blowing out spark plugs, there had been issues with spark plugs getting shot out from the Grand Marquis, and from the 5.4L as well.

I'm hearing that the cam phasers and timing chain guides fail if strict oil changes are not followed.

I thought only the Ford 5.4L 24 valve engines from 2004-2008ish had the spark plug and cam phaser problems. I thought the earlier 5.4L 16 valve and the 4.6L avoided these issues.

That said, I have had both a 98 Expedition with the 5.4L 16v and a 2005 F150 with the 5.4L 24v, both great trucks with no engine problems during my ownership. This is the third 5.3L Chevy truck I have owned, same story.

 

[Larryjb]

Interesting comments Roger. I didn't know that about VVT and the EGR. It makes me wonder why my 2002 Tahoe does not have an EGR valve.

 

[TheAutumnWind]

The LS water pump can lose efficiency as it gets older. I would have the system checked. The 4 speed trans is very old school. I would suggest a 180 tstat also..easy to change.

Lower thermostat wouldn't help, but a worn water pump could effect it. Bigger radiator, transmission cooler, or better fans should help.

 

[Black Limited]

Firdtly, 212 degrees is not "hot"; that is about what the thermostat is set to run at on a 5.3

Secondly, the Grapevine is between 5 & 6 percent at the steepest points Southbound and 5 percent is the maximum pull Northbound; I am not familiar with the other grade you mentioned but if it is 7 percent or more as you indicated then it is a MUCH harder pull than the Grapevine.

The thermostat in my 5.3L is stamped 187 Deg, dash gauge matches fairly close

 

[swathdiver]

The thermostat in my 5.3L is stamped 187 Deg, dash gauge matches fairly close

That's how they are rated, that's the initial opening temperature and they are fully open by about 195. I've thought about the Lingenfelter/MotoRad 174 for someday...

 

[Larryjb]

According to my Scanguage, it holds the temperature pretty close to the 185-195°F, and the gauge is stable. When I mentioned that it was running hot on the climb up the Coq, the needle began to rise. Because I did not have the Scangauge at the time, I could only surmise that the temperature was starting to rise above the 212°F.

I have read, and I'm not sure where now, that these engines will get hotter under such conditions, rising to 220°F and holding. I was told by a local dealer that that is normal on the Coq. If I had been on any other freeway where it would be safe to pull over I might have been prepared to do so, but there is no such room on that freeway, so I dared not test those waters.

I was mostly curious if others had this experience with the earlier 5.3s.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

LS Swap the Ford, end of discussion lol

Truth is whole world is LS swapping, who's swapping in the 4.6 from Ford? LS motors maybe the pinnacle of 16 valve design for a Gas internal combustion engine.

My father has owned numerous Ford's including that 3 valve engine. I think it was the 5.4? It sucked. He owned one of the early v6 ecoboosts. That was damn fast but what isn't with a good turbo? And now he has a naturally aspirated V8. It's nice. Maybe it's the 4.6? I have no clue. It's his truck lol It drives good and gets great gas mileage. I'd assume the newer LS variants are getting great efficiency as well.

I don't know much about the ford motors... I don't like how the GM motors deactivate cylinders. I think that is super stupid. I don't know why they just don't lean out the tune. I think it has something to do with emissions but seems really stupid. (Lean burns create a different kinds of exhaust gases from what I've studied. The motors will tolerate it though and many countries allow for leaner tunes.) Maybe Ford has a better way to get efficiency out of motor without carrying around extra cylinders "just in case" they are needed.

In the meantime I stay away from cylinder deactivation. I think it's liable to stop working about 1/4 of the way through your motors life lol Or at least the internet makes it seem that way. I just don't like the extra mechanical complexity either way.

I have a somewhat modified LS1 in my corvette with heads and cam. Then I have the 5.3L in my tahoe. Both are absolutely beautiful motors. I'm not as well versed on the Ford. My father owns Fords now. The motors seem nice from a driving perspective in the Fords (outside of that crappy 5.4L 3 valve he had). Corvette runs like a ***** ape. The Tahoe is decent. Feels bit like a boat but a strong boat lol This is the tahoe forum so I think you all know what it's like.

I think there's likely no contest though, the LS is super reliable. They are cheap and everywhere as well. Plus outside of cylinder deactivation they are very simple design (and you can delete the cylinder deactivation). They also can make crazy power if you modify them a bit. The only competition in my opinion is in terms of the build of the trucks / vehicles themselves. I might digress as much as I love the SBC / LS, I think Ford builds a bit better interior. The ford Fit and finish is a bit more to be desired. But that's my personal opinion. I think the LS has a laundry list of reasons for betting the best Small Block and still holds that title.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Now I read your post lol One thing that stood out with my dad's trucks. I LOVED the transmissions! He doesn't pull anything with them though. I think now GM has more gears in their transmissions though. And in terms of highway efficiency.

I wouldn't mind a 6 speed in my 2001 Tahoe (they didn't offer them till later years). However, I always think, once I'm at highway speed it doesn't really matter. Unless the 6 speed has a different ratio overdrive / final gear. In city, I drive like grandma and it does decent. Off road, well it just sucks lol 12 MPG.

Not sure is a fair comparison but I do LOVE the newer Ford transmissions compared to any of the old GM transmissions I have. Although, I've not had a chance to drive any of the newer GM transmissions so isn't much of a fair comparison.

FYI I think VVT is a MUCH more efficient design. It's no contest when compared to single fixed cam like in SBC / LS. Although, in terms of simplicity and reliability you cannot beat an LS (in my opinion). VVT will almost always be better. It's like having a handful of different cams in your motor versus one. The computer can select the best cam for the load. That said I'd still take my LS because I don't like the added complexity of VVT in a truck.

 

[RET423]

I didn't know that about VVT and the EGR. It makes me wonder why my 2002 Tahoe does not have an EGR valve.

The 4.8 made emissions standards in 2002 without EGR but I think it took a couple more years for the 5.3, by 2005 when "Displacement on Demand" was the standard I believe all displacements were EGR free. DOD is a variant of VVT; they both alter the cam performance (albeit in different ways) to meet emission and economy regulations.

 

[RET423]

The thermostat in my 5.3L is stamped 187 Deg, dash gauge matches fairly close

The thermostat begins opening at the stamped temp and is fully open 10 degrees warmer than the stamped temp, most factory thermostats that I have pulled were stamped 195 but a 187 and a 175 are both available at any parts store.

The thermostat is using the water temp at the thermostat housing, if the sending unit for the temp gauge is close to the thermostat the gauge will read very close to the thermostat rating but it is not uncommon for the sending unit to be located in a head or block water jacket which will usually report a higher temp than the thermostat housing.

What really matters is whether the temp range is consistent, if it is the Coolant system is functioning as designed; if the temp swings are greater than 10 degrees it probably means the radiator core is not flowing freely, the water pump is weak, the fans are not working properly or the air flow is restricted; watching your temp gauge closely enough to spot small variations will enable you to correct issues before they become bad enough to overheat and damage something

 

[Larryjb]

Now I read your post lol One thing that stood out with my dad's trucks. I LOVED the transmissions! He doesn't pull anything with them though. I think now GM has more gears in their transmissions though. And in terms of highway efficiency.

I wouldn't mind a 6 speed in my 2001 Tahoe (they didn't offer them till later years). However, I always think, once I'm at highway speed it doesn't really matter. Unless the 6 speed has a different ratio overdrive / final gear. In city, I drive like grandma and it does decent. Off road, well it just sucks lol 12 MPG.

Not sure is a fair comparison but I do LOVE the newer Ford transmissions compared to any of the old GM transmissions I have. Although, I've not had a chance to drive any of the newer GM transmissions so isn't much of a fair comparison.

FYI I think VVT is a MUCH more efficient design. It's no contest when compared to single fixed cam like in SBC / LS. Although, in terms of simplicity and reliability you cannot beat an LS (in my opinion). VVT will almost always be better. It's like having a handful of different cams in your motor versus one. The computer can select the best cam for the load. That said I'd still take my LS because I don't like the added complexity of VVT in a truck.

I believe it is a lot more difficult or complicated to achieve VVT with an overhead valve engine as opposed to an overhead cam engine. With the dual cams and cam phasers, the heads on Fords are huge! But, you can get some nice valve timing easily. With overhead valve, you have to have a lot of translational motions between the cam and valve (lifters, rods, rockers). With only 1 cam, you are limited to what you can adjust with valve timing. I suppose GM could try to stuff 2 cams under the valley.

So far, our Ford 4.6L is going strong with about 240000 km. I quite like it, but if I ever had to replace a head, that would be a nightmare! Fortunately, Ford heads seem to be pretty good. GM went through a time with cracked heads, and I had one too.

And now I know I have piston slap. How annoying, but at least I know it's not detrimental to the engine, especially as long as I give it time to warm up before driving off. The 4.6 doesn't seem to suffer from piston slap.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I honestly have very little experience with ford motors. my guess is the test of time will prove that a quality motor as well.

I am in love with my 5.3L though lol Hoping to find a 6.0L and swap it though. Been really happy with these LS motors.

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[mountie]

Many moons ago I picked up a 40' Formula off-shore race boat from Orange County in a 4-door dually'

I was careful on the up-hill northbound Grapevine.... The last part of the downhill.... Crap....
The trailer was nearly heaver than the truck, alone!! Talk about smelling the brakes!!

Coq...... From the top, my diesel engine through a rod going down. ( Top Kick custom w/a 45' race trailer )

I rubbed the right front tire on the concrete wall until it finally came to a stop.
( Throw a rod , NO AIR FOR ANY BRAKES !! )

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Many moons ago I picked up a 40' Formula off-shore race boat from Orange County in a 4-door dually'

I was careful on the up-hill northbound Grapevine.... The last part of the downhill.... Crap....
The trailer was nearly heaver than the truck, alone!! Talk about smelling the brakes!!

Coq...... From the top, my diesel engine through a rod going down. ( Top Kick custom w/a 45' race trailer )

I rubbed the right front tire on the concrete wall until it finally came to a stop.
( Throw a rod , NO AIR FOR ANY BRAKES !! )

that is some real carnage there! what make and model was the truck?

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[mountie]

On the Coq....

Only body damage was the lug nut covers on the right front wheel.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

On the Coq....

Only body damage was the lug nut covers on the right front wheel.

View attachment 238089 View attachment 238090

what a beast. suprised you could blow it up lol

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[mountie]

what a beast. suprised you could blow it up lol

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I was surprised too....I drove it for a couple years, then I had not driven the truck for 2 years ( I was hauling for another team w/ Porsches)....Then I left SoCal with a funny knock sound once in a while, as I drove to St.Louis then Saskatoon, Ca.
Heading to Seattle via B.C., it let go at the top of the Coq, going down, only a half mile...

I realized, the idiot who drove it those 2 years, must have over-reved it down a grade, then parked it with the rod knock & failed to report it.

 

[Larryjb]

Wow Peter. That is scary on the Coq. There aren't many runaway lanes on that highway, few places to pull over safely. It should have been designed as a 6 lane freeway with 2 lanes for trucks, one for cars, and have a wider shoulder. However, this would have been too expensive to do this way. Glad you survived that, it could have been a lot worse.

 

[mountie]

Wow Peter. That is scary on the Coq. There aren't many runaway lanes on that highway, few places to pull over safely. It should have been designed as a 6 lane freeway with 2 lanes for trucks, one for cars, and have a wider shoulder. However, this would have been too expensive to do this way. Glad you survived that, it could have been a lot worse.

The timing of the engine fail could not have been better ( Say, what?? )......
1/8" of a mile ahead was a (whatch ya call it)..... A "roof" to allow snow to stay above the roadway.
( Kinda like a short tunnel, not far from the top of the Coq )..... There is a right-hand shoulder before it, off the road just enough for me to steer to the right & off the lane.... giving me the 200 yards to scrub off speed on the concrete.
( I have a video of it after, but no photos ) Showing the oil slick running down-hill from the cab !!

I think is was about $3,000 bucks to tow both the truck then the trailer to North Vancouver at the Detroit Diesel shop.
It took a week & a half for a new engine install & clean up systems, so I visited my Vancouver cousins.....( I was born in Victoria)

(To add )... After the fix, I drove in rain all the way to St Louis, Mo, to the Merrimac River for the next race. Luck continues..... All that rain flooded the river & cancelled the F-1 Tunnel Boat races.
My rig hauled a pair of F-1 Tunnelboats. ( Ist ever, 100% carbon fiber "DAC" built boats from Italy )